Biden overstepped his authority and SC stopped loan forgiveness

[samhain]

(06-30-2023, 06:07 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: This is apples to oranges. The PPP was designed to keep small businesses from going out of business. It was not a loan forgiveness program. It was a program to encourage businesses to keep people working. The parameters were very specific on how a business can apply and get the funds. But, the employer (business) had to meet criteria like a loss of at least 20% in sales/revenue in ay given quarter (3 months0 and continue to pay employees. Some of the employees were paid by employers even though they were not working to meet the eligibility requirement.

The PPP program not helped employees keep their job, it was an investment in the future as these small businesses could survive and continue to pay tax revenue and add employees over time versus putting a whole lot of people out of work which removes tax revenue from those unemployed.

The Biden loan forgiveness is straight removal of around 430 billion dollars being paid to banks. It is actually the opposite of being a program designed to encourage college students and graduates to work. 

The bottom line is parents and students need to understand if they sign a contract, they will be held accountable to pay it back. However, there are programs available now for students to apply under hardships. A hardship is a thing like major medical bills. A hardship is not a graduate (they pay 6 months after graduation) that refuses to work and make money to pay back the loan.

I think we should execute these piece of shit borrowers.  Shoot them right in the face.  Either that or bring back debtors prisons where they get raped by known criminals for their plebeian stupidity until they can no longer control their bowels.  KILL THE POOR!!!!!

Also, Jesus loves me and shit.

[samhain]

Dude I have a raging hard on seeing these brokies get told they will be broke for the foreseeable future. If the almighty god wanted them to have money, he'd have materialized and kept them from signing the paperwork. I'm so sick of acting like the poor and non-rich matter. Don't even explain it to them. Neuter/spay these borrowers so they can't continue to live off the teat. God I'm so glad I have people like them to openly berate and make myself feel better.

In hope they all commit suicide.

[Luvnit2]

(06-30-2023, 05:28 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: If only the $700 billion plus in PPP loans forgiven were put under as much scrutiny as student loans.

'murica

The loans were only forgiven if the business/employer met tough conditions. Many business owners failed to meet the criteria so they had to pay the loans back.

[SunsetBengal]

(06-30-2023, 06:07 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: This is apples to oranges. The PPP was designed to keep small businesses from going out of business. It was not a loan forgiveness program. It was a program to encourage businesses to keep people working. The parameters were very specific on how a business can apply and get the funds. But, the employer (business) had to meet criteria like a loss of at least 20% in sales/revenue in ay given quarter (3 months0 and continue to pay employees. Some of the employees were paid by employers even though they were not working to meet the eligibility requirement.

The PPP program not helped employees keep their job, it was an investment in the future as these small businesses could survive and continue to pay tax revenue and add employees over time versus putting a whole lot of people out of work which removes tax revenue from those unemployed.

The Biden loan forgiveness is straight removal of around 430 billion dollars being paid to banks. It is actually the opposite of being a program designed to encourage college students and graduates to work. 

The bottom line is parents and students need to understand if they sign a contract, they will be held accountable to pay it back. However, there are programs available now for students to apply under hardships. A hardship is a thing like major medical bills. A hardship is not a graduate (they pay 6 months after graduation) that refuses to work and make money to pay back the loan.

There was also a lot of widespread fraudulent claims paid out, the extent of which we may never truly know.

https://www.sba.gov/sites/sbagov/files/2023-06/SBA%20OIG%20Report%2023-09.pdf

The report in the link shows the volume of cases of fraud as related to PPP program to a specific date.  I feel fairly certain that investigations and efforts to recover ill gotten funds are ongoing.

[samhain]

(06-30-2023, 06:20 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: There was also a lot of widespread fraudulent claims paid out, the extent of which we may never truly know.

https://www.sba.gov/sites/sbagov/files/2023-06/SBA%20OIG%20Report%2023-09.pdf

The report in the link shows the volume of cases of fraud as related to PPP program to a specific date.  I feel fairly certain that investigations and efforts to recover ill gotten funds are ongoing.

I said that from the beginning when Tom Massie was getting browbeaten by Trump for being the only rep with the balls to call it a large-scale cash grab.  it always was.  The gubmint never misses a chance to exploit the level of fear that was floating around when covid was just starting to spread.  

It's always fun to hear public officials tell people to be more responsible with their money when they are not only irresponsible, but downright willfully injurious of they public coffers.

[Luvnit2]

(06-30-2023, 06:16 PM)samhain Wrote: Dude I have a raging hard on seeing these brokies get told they will be broke for the foreseeable future.  If the almighty god wanted them to have money, he'd have materialized and kept them from signing the paperwork.  I'm so sick of acting like the poor and non-rich matter.  Don't even explain it to them.  Neuter/spay these borrowers so they can't continue to live off the teat.  God I'm so glad I have people like them to openly berate and make myself feel better.  

In hope they all commit suicide.

I did not realize God is the one for dumb or bad decisions made by individuals. But hey, to each his own.

I feel individuals are accountable for their own actions and decisions.

Students are old enough to vote (most are 18), so they should be adult enough to understand a contract they are signing.

[Luvnit2]

(06-30-2023, 06:20 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: There was also a lot of widespread fraudulent claims paid out, the extent of which we may never truly know.

https://www.sba.gov/sites/sbagov/files/2023-06/SBA%20OIG%20Report%2023-09.pdf

The report in the link shows the volume of cases of fraud as related to PPP program to a specific date.  I feel fairly certain that investigations and efforts to recover ill gotten funds are ongoing.

There is fraud and theft with any government program. I hope we all agree, anyone who committed fraud with the PPP program is prosecuted and gets more than a slap on the wrist as was given to Hunter Biden.

[samhain]

(06-30-2023, 06:24 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I did not realize God is the one for dumb or bad decisions made by individuals. But hey, to each his own.

I feel individuals are accountable for their own actions and decisions.

Students are old enough to vote (most are 18), so they should be adult enough to understand a contract they are signing.

Should be and are are different things.  If someone can't buy beer or tobacco, they shouldn't be able to make a 50K long-term lifestyle decision.  

[samhain]

(06-30-2023, 06:27 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: There is fraud and theft with any government program. I hope we all agree, anyone who committed fraud with the PPP program is prosecuted and gets more than a slap on the wrist as was given to Hunter Biden.

Yeah, everybody does it and in this case they are rich, so it's okay.

You need to get over your HBDS. It's. a clinical disease and it manifests in MAGA types without warning. One big symptom is mentioning Hunter Biden in a thread that has little to no relation to him.

[samhain]

So, seriously, I think someone should propose a large scale return to debtors prisons. These could be high speed options for debt payment based on labor worked by student borrowers. They can exchange 2-3 years of freedom for a lifetime without debt. They work 10-12 hour days for the state, live in cages and eat gruel. Then it's done.

I think if you had to explain this to a kid and his parents before getting them on a the hook for a loan, then it might carry more weight than some abstract amount of money that you don't have to pay until you are done with school.

[CKwi88]

(06-30-2023, 06:20 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The loans were only forgiven if the business/employer met tough conditions. Many business owners failed to meet the criteria so they had to pay the loans back.

Like the tough condition of people who received 150k or less of filling out a form and promising, with no requirement to provide supporting documentation, that it was used properly?

You really don't even try to educate yourself on anything. Do you?

[StoneTheCrow]

(06-30-2023, 06:40 PM)samhain Wrote: So, seriously, I think someone should propose a large scale return to debtors prisons. These could be high speed options for debt payment based on labor worked by student borrowers. They can exchange 2-3 years of freedom for a lifetime without debt. They work 10-12 hour days for the state, live in cages and eat gruel. Then it's done.

I think if you had to explain this to a kid and his parents before getting them on a the hook for a loan, then it might carry more weight than some abstract amount of money that you don't have to pay until you are done with school.

Weekends and holidays off, 3 years supply of Frank’s Xtra Hot for the gruel, and you’ve got yourself a goddamn deal.

[samhain]

(06-30-2023, 08:11 PM)StoneTheCrow Wrote: Weekends and holidays off, 3 years supply of Frank’s Xtra Hot for the gruel, and you’ve got yourself a goddamn deal.

Man, Idk if young people would be smart enough to realize how good that deal would be.  However, I'd bet a large amount of money that people in their 30's and 40's with a mountain of debt would be on that like a tick on Dracula.

[SunsetBengal]

(06-30-2023, 06:40 PM)samhain Wrote: So, seriously, I think someone should propose a large scale return to debtors prisons.  These could be high speed options for debt payment based on labor worked by student borrowers.  They can exchange 2-3 years of freedom for a lifetime without debt.  They work 10-12 hour days for the state, live in cages and eat gruel.  Then it's done.  

I think if you had to explain this to a kid and his parents before getting them on a the hook for a loan, then it might carry more weight than some abstract amount of money that you don't have to pay until you are done with school.

Have you ever looked at how much it costs to keep an inmate incarcerated?  In 2015 it was $26,509 per inmate in Ohio.  Debtor's prisons make little economic sense as the public is still footing the bill, but hey "the jobs" it would create..

http://https://www.vera.org/publications/price-of-prisons-2015-state-spending-trends/price-of-prisons-2015-state-spending-trends/price-of-prisons-2015-state-spending-trends-prison-spending

[*Nately120*]

(06-30-2023, 06:07 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: This is apples to oranges. The PPP was designed to keep small businesses from going out of business.

Why should I pay for people to stay in business?  If you can't hack it without the government forcing taxpayers to keep you in business, you need to go work for someone else. 


FUN SIDE NOTE:  Tom Brady was given $960,855 via a PPP loan to keep his TB12 business afloat.  You can't even get upset when stuff is this one-sided. Amazing that a man with so little work ethic that he'd accept a handout from the government managed to win 7 SBs.

[KillerGoose]

The Biden administration has already responded by creating the SAVE Plan. I’m a fan of what is in this bill. Some of it was included in the debt forgiveness plan. The aim is to ease pressure on borrowers and the payments they are having to make.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/06/30/fact-sheet-president-biden-announces-new-actions-to-provide-debt-relief-and-support-for-student-loan-borrowers/#:~:text=This%20income%2Ddriven%20repayment%20plan,balances%20grow%20from%20unpaid%20interest.

[*Nately120*]

(06-30-2023, 09:27 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: The Biden administration has already responded by creating the SAVE Plan. I’m a fan of what is in this bill. Some of it was included in the debt forgiveness plan. The aim is to ease pressure on borrowers and the payments they are having to make.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/06/30/fact-sheet-president-biden-announces-new-actions-to-provide-debt-relief-and-support-for-student-loan-borrowers/#:~:text=This%20income%2Ddriven%20repayment%20plan,balances%20grow%20from%20unpaid%20interest.

Oh man, did Biden do the ol' door in the face technique on this one?

[NATI BENGALS]

I really messed up not applying for free money from the ppp.

I applied for a loan and used it on education instead.

One got their debt forgiven. One didn’t.

We going to make all the people who got free ppp money pay it back now right? To make it all fair? Since this is all about fairness and not having to pay for somebody else.

[Luvnit2]

(06-30-2023, 08:06 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: Like the tough condition of people who received 150k or less of filling out a form and promising, with no requirement to provide supporting documentation, that it was used properly?

You really don't even try to educate yourself on anything. Do you?

Please educate me, I was in business still in 2020 and 2021.  I never heard of anything getting $150,000 with no documentation. Most people I know hired accountants to provide the information to the government or their payroll company. The paperwork for PPP forgiveness loans was cumbersome and proof of all payroll for the quarter had to be provided upfront to be qualified.

[Luvnit2]

(06-30-2023, 08:36 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Why should I pay for people to stay in business?  If you can't hack it without the government forcing taxpayers to keep you in business, you need to go work for someone else. 


FUN SIDE NOTE:  Tom Brady was given $960,855 via a PPP loan to keep his TB12 business afloat.  You can't even get upset when stuff is this one-sided. Amazing that a man with so little work ethic that he'd accept a handout from the government managed to win 7 SBs.

It is scary that you don't understand businesses provide jobs. In my case, I had over 250 employees at the time, I did not qualify, but due to my due diligence over the years, I kept every employee and as a result lost over $200,000 in 2020. Then lost $100,000 in 2021 as my business rebounded. I missed the 20% threshold in any given quarter, my sales were only down 18% (for 17 months). I did have 2 quarters down 19%, but again missed the threshold. I could have lost a lot less money, I could have cut my workforce by 20% or laid off 50 people. I chose to lose money. I had people that had worked for me for over 20 years, no way was I going to lay them off during Covid.

Covid cost me a lot of money, but I made sure my employees did lose pay of benefits. Unfortunately, not all business owners had that type of nest egg kept in their business so they did go bankrupt. It was not only them that lost, it was the employees that work for them. If you and others don't understand businesses create jobs, but yes to stay in business they need to be able to make the weekly payroll and pay the bank (debt).