Biden's Press Conference!

[Von Cichlid]

(08-31-2020, 03:08 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Trump's supporters are as confident they can't lose as Hillary supporters were 4 years ago.

Not this one.  Pre-COVID sure, I thought he had it in the bag.  

[*jason*]

(08-31-2020, 09:44 PM)Von Cichlid Wrote: Not this one.  Pre-COVID sure, I thought he had it in the bag.  

What's made you not so sure about his chances since the Rona hit?

[*bfine32*]

(08-31-2020, 08:23 PM)jason Wrote: The OP is saying look how much more feeble Biden is than Trump. He then insists that one must be blind to vote for Biden over Trump.

Show me where in the OP

[BmorePat87]

(08-31-2020, 03:10 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: The difference is that Trump had a plan and was and is mentally stable and competent. 

This is the first post from the thread where a poster tried to compare Trump to Biden. It was made by the OP. It was in response to a poster commenting on the OP's confidence in his candidate's chances in the election. 

Stop feeding the troll (I'm not referring to you Brad, don't worry). If you ignore it, it'll go away. 

[*jason*]

(08-31-2020, 10:15 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Show me where in the OP

In this case I meant it as in original poster. I was trying to be diplomatic... Brad. There I said it. Over multiple threads he has said that.

[*bfine32*]

(08-31-2020, 10:16 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: This is the first post from the thread where a poster tried to compare Trump to Biden. It was made by the OP. It was in response to a poster commenting on the OP's confidence in his candidate's chances in the election. 

Stop feeding the troll (I'm not referring to you Brad, don't worry). If you ignore it, it'll go away. 

Personal attacks are against the CoC when some people do them. (FWIW, you just displayed a lack of ignoring them)

There's absolutely 0 trolling. The post you quoted was in response to someone introducing Trump and his supporters into the discussion which had 0 to do with the OP. The OP (Original Post) made no such comparison, but folks couldn't discuss Biden's comments on their own merit. 

My point is folks are bringing up Trump to mitigate Biden's comments. You can agree with that or not. But don't feign aloofness and insult others. 

[GMDino]

Again the Trump campaign edits a Biden video to lie about what he said.

This is edited out of context.

Full quote: Here’s what Biden actually said: “...Trump and Pence are running on this, ‘You won’t be safe in Joe Biden’s America.’ And what’s their proof? The violence you’re seeing in Donald Trump’s America.” https://t.co/WWytgZxczq

— Jorge Ribas (@jribas) August 31, 2020

We've had this discussion here about taking words out of context...the Trump campaign is simply awful.

[BmorePat87]

(08-31-2020, 10:30 PM)GMDino Wrote: Again the Trump campaign edits a Biden video to lie about what he said.

This is edited out of context.

Full quote: Here’s what Biden actually said: “...Trump and Pence are running on this, ‘You won’t be safe in Joe Biden’s America.’ And what’s their proof? The violence you’re seeing in Donald Trump’s America.” https://t.co/WWytgZxczq

— Jorge Ribas (@jribas) August 31, 2020

We've had this discussion here about taking words out of context...the Trump campaign is simply awful.

This is what happens when you're the sitting President but have no platform. 

[GMDino]

(08-31-2020, 10:33 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: This is what happens when you're the sitting President but have no platform. 

Bingo.  They have no idea what to do.  Trump ran on just undoing everything Obama did...now as the incumbent he's still running against the last President but it's himself. 

None of his attacks on Biden are working so his group as resorted to flat out lies and misdirection.  And like any snake oil salesman it will work on some people...but not forever.

[BmorePat87]

(08-31-2020, 10:36 PM)GMDino Wrote: now as the incumbent he's still running against the last President but it's himself. 

Ha, the GOP platform literally had references attacking the "current president" before they scraped it and opted for no platform, so that checks out.

And he's blaming chaos and violence during his term on Biden lol

As I mentioned in one of my other posts, Biden had a good zinger about Trump not even realizing he's president.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-31-2020, 10:36 PM)GMDino Wrote: Bingo.  They have no idea what to do.

It looks like they know exactly what to do, which is to tie the Dems to the ongoing riots, looting and arson.

Quote:  Trump ran on just undoing everything Obama did...now as the incumbent he's still running against the last President but it's himself. 

None of his attacks on Biden are working so his group as resorted to flat out lies and misdirection.  And like any snake oil salesman it will work on some people...but not forever.

If the riots keep happening then it will absolutely work.  A couple of slick campaign adds of the riots, violence, arson and looting spliced with Dems and news anchors repeating, "largely peaceful" will be absolutely effective.  They know this, hence the complete change of tone of late.  Is it too late to about face for the Dems is the question.

[BmorePat87]

(08-31-2020, 10:40 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It looks like they know exactly what to do, which is to tie the Dems to the ongoing riots, looting and arson.


If the riots keep happening then it will absolutely work.  A couple of slick campaign adds of the riots, violence, arson and looting spliced with Dems and news anchors repeating, "largely peaceful" will be absolutely effective.  They know this, hence the complete change of tone of late.  Is it too late to about face for the Dems is the question.

That was in response to my comment to him that Trump lacks a platform, so I disagree that Trump knows what to do within this context. 

From a campaign strategy point of view, though, this hinges on voters believing Trump has no control over this nation as President, which is a really bad campaign strategy for a sitting president: "I am impotent". I don't think that's a good strategy. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-31-2020, 10:45 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: That was in response to my comment to him that Trump lacks a platform, so I disagree that Trump knows what to do within this context.

He didn't really have a platform before, but I get your point. 

Quote:From a campaign strategy point of view, though, this hinges on voters believing Trump has no control over this nation as President, which is a really bad campaign strategy for a sitting president: "I am impotent". I don't think that's a good strategy. 

Here you couldn't be more wrong, and the Dems own strategy is why.  99% of the violence has occurred in areas run heavily, if not exclusively, by Dems.  The poster child for the riots, Portland, is probably the most left leaning area of the country.  When Trump sent in Federal law enforcement to end over two months worth of nightly rioting the left leaning media and politicians tripped over themselves in a rush to label him a despot who was suppressing the people.  When the Feds left the riots continues nigh unabated, and in fact have gotten worse.  So, I think you're looking at this issue from a partisan, "I wish this were true", point of view.  When a far left pundit like Don Lemon realizes these riots are a horrible look for the Dems it's got to be readily apparent.

As I said a long time ago, the Dems really painted themselves into a corner.  By ignoring the not infrequent violence and dismissing concerns about the "largely peaceful" protests they put their fate in the hands of criminal rioters, looters and arsonists.  They also, along with the media who largely excused or mitigated the behavior, significantly enabled them. It is here that your side of this position becomes inconsistent, and thus no longer viable from a logical point of view.  You can't claim Trump emboldens "x" people to act in "x" way and then completely ignore the culpability of Dems engaging in the exact same behavior, just not in as bombastic a fashion.  This riots are severely damaging the Dems chances, they won't be forgotten soon, and the Dems know it.

[*jason*]

(08-31-2020, 10:40 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It looks like they know exactly what to do, which is to tie the Dems to the ongoing riots, looting and arson.


If the riots keep happening then it will absolutely work.  A couple of slick campaign adds of the riots, violence, arson and looting spliced with Dems and news anchors repeating, "largely peaceful" will be absolutely effective.  They know this, hence the complete change of tone of late.  Is it too late to about face for the Dems is the question.

I only agree with your last paragraph after taking a good hard look around at the American electorate. These are some of the same people that were screaming Dr Fauci lied to us about masks late last winter when there were only a few hundred cases in the United States... Context isn't always our strength.

[Von Cichlid]

(08-31-2020, 10:11 PM)jason Wrote: What's made you not so sure about his chances since the Rona hit?

This is my honest non-troll answer to that question and I'll do the best I can.

Pre-COVID, Trump and his base were riding high on the economy and feeling bullet proof.  His administration knew that any overreaction to the virus would wreck the economy, his main avenue to reelection.  In an effort to rally his base and preserve what he thought was his best accomplishment, he tried to downplay the virus at every turn.  This lead to him saying some nonsensical things early, early on that time has not been kind to.    

In short, his effort to appease his base at the outset made him paint himself in a corner and he has had hell getting out of it every since.  

However, there is a perfect analogy to this with Liberal officials in the big cities.

They too are in a situation that they cannot now control because they painted themselves in a corner by trying to appease their base.  Just like Trump is not at fault for COVID, they are not at fault for Derek Chauvin.  Nonetheless, they went along with the notion that the USA is an awful place for minorities and that law enforcement needed to be defunded, not because they really believed it, but because they wanted to appease their base.  They thought this would get them adulation, but instead it has emboldened their constituents to torch their cities and now there is nothing they can do.

In summary, if someone wants to claim Trump is a bad leader, I will not argue that.  But, I whole heartedly believe the leadership on the other side is even more corrupt.  I don't for a second think they truly care about minorities while living in their gated communities.  They don't for a second really want to defund the police while having their 24 hour security force with them.

Trump may let his inner ugliness out way too often, but I still believe that he means what he says, as bad as it sounds sometimes.  Plus, I do get the sense he loves his country, albeit a version of it many find embarrassing or distasteful.

Pelosi, Schumer, Biden, Harris, etc.  I don't trust any of them as far as I can throw them.  They are career politicians who have flipped and flopped for decades and will say whatever they need to say to stay in power.  Whatever the polls say is what they believe.

[*jason*]

(08-31-2020, 11:20 PM)Von Cichlid Wrote: This is my honest non-troll answer to that question and I'll do the best I can.

Pre-COVID, Trump and his base were riding high on the economy and feeling bullet proof.  His administration knew that any overreaction to the virus would wreck the economy, his main avenue to reelection.  In an effort to rally his base and preserve what he thought was his best accomplishment, he tried to downplay the virus at every turn.  This lead to him saying some nonsensical things early, early on that time has not been kind to.    

In short, his effort to appease his base at the outset made him paint himself in a corner and he has had hell getting out of it every since.  

However, there is a perfect analogy to this with Liberal officials in the big cities.

They too are in a situation that they cannot now control because they painted themselves in a corner by trying to appease their base.  Just like Trump is not at fault for COVID, they are not at fault for Derek Chauvin.  Nonetheless, they went along with the notion that the USA is an awful place for minorities and that law enforcement needed to be defunded, not because they really believed it, but because they wanted to appease their base.  They thought this would get them adulation, but instead it has emboldened their constituents to torch their cities and now there is nothing they can do.

In summary, if someone wants to claim Trump is a bad leader, I will not argue that.  But, I whole heartedly believe the leadership on the other side is even more corrupt.  I don't for a second think they truly care about minorities while living in their gated communities.  They don't for a second really want to defund the police while having their 24 hour security force with them.

Trump may let his inner ugliness out way too often, but I still believe that he means what he says, as bad as it sounds sometimes.  Plus, I do get the sense he loves his country, albeit a version of it many find embarrassing or distasteful.

Pelosi, Schumer, Biden, Harris, etc.  I don't trust any of them as far as I can throw them.  They are career politicians who have flipped and flopped for decades and will say whatever they need to say to stay in power.  Whatever the polls say is what they believe.

I don't trust any of those people you listed either... I also don't trust Trump. He may love what he thinks the country should be, but it appears to me that he despises what it actually is. I have a hard time accepting that the folks you listed are even more corrupt than Trump too... The man has too many people indicted, serving a sentence, and too many family members "advising" him to believe otherwise.

You and I both agree on the defund the police issue though. The George Floyd killing was a perfect time to start talking about the opposite... More funding, better training, better screening, better pay... All of that.

Sadly I have to admit that we don't have great options in this election, but I feel one of them is a terrible option... But hey... This country had a pretty good 60 or 70 year run... Right?

[BmorePat87]

(08-31-2020, 11:17 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: He didn't really have a platform before, but I get your point. 


Here you couldn't be more wrong, and the Dems own strategy is why.  99% of the violence has occurred in areas run heavily, if not exclusively, by Dems.  The poster child for the riots, Portland, is probably the most left leaning area of the country.  When Trump sent in Federal law enforcement to end over two months worth of nightly rioting the left leaning media and politicians tripped over themselves in a rush to label him a despot who was suppressing the people.  When the Feds left the riots continues nigh unabated, and in fact have gotten worse.  So, I think you're looking at this issue from a partisan, "I wish this were true", point of view.  When a far left pundit like Don Lemon realizes these riots are a horrible look for the Dems it's got to be readily apparent.

As I said a long time ago, the Dems really painted themselves into a corner.  By ignoring the not infrequent violence and dismissing concerns about the "largely peaceful" protests they put their fate in the hands of criminal rioters, looters and arsonists.  They also, along with the media who largely excused or mitigated the behavior, significantly enabled them. It is here that your side of this position becomes inconsistent, and thus no longer viable from a logical point of view.  You can't claim Trump emboldens "x" people to act in "x" way and then completely ignore the culpability of Dems engaging in the exact same behavior, just not in as bombastic a fashion.  This riots are severely damaging the Dems chances, they won't be forgotten soon, and the Dems know it.

Polling done at the beginning of June and end of July put the majority of Americans in support of the on going protests, despite the narrative Trump and Barr pushed around Portland during July. There also hasn't been a significant shift in Biden's support during this time. His average lead has actually gone up 1% since before Memorial Day. I do not see evidence to support your premise. I think there's merit behind your argument, but I do not see that coming true. I also think it downplays the responsibility, justified or not, that voters ultimately place on the President.

I want to point out that I do not think I'd said "Trump emboldens" and "Democrats are not culpable" (or similar rhetoric) in any of this. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-31-2020, 11:18 PM)jason Wrote: I only agree with your last paragraph after taking a good hard look around at the American electorate. These are some of the same people that were screaming Dr Fauci lied to us about masks late last winter when there were only a few hundred cases in the United States... Context isn't always our strength.

Here's the thing about this forum.  You make a statement about what you believe will happen, or is likely to happen, and there are several people who will automatically conclude that this is what you, personally, want to have happen.  I realize, btw, that you are not one of those people.  When I say "x" will happen, or be perceived a certain way, it's because I believe that to be correct, not because I necessarily think it's right.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-31-2020, 11:34 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Polling done at the beginning of June and end of July put the majority of Americans in support of the on going protests, despite the narrative Trump and Barr pushed around Portland during July.

So what changed?

Quote:There also hasn't been a significant shift in Biden's support during this time. His average lead has actually gone up 1% since before Memorial Day. I do not see evidence to support your premise.

The borderline panic among left leaning pundits would demonstrate otherwise, IMO.

Quote:I think there's merit behind your argument, but I do not see that coming true. I also think it downplays the responsibility, justified or not, that voters ultimately place on the President.

Normally I would would agree.  But the left leaning local government have so distanced themselves from Trump that they've effectively created a situation in which they alone own the results.

Quote:I want to point out that I do not think I'd said "Trump emboldens" and "Democrats are not culpable" (or similar rhetoric) in any of this. 

Forgive me if I lumped you in with that crown unjustifiably.  I don't think you would deny that there is a large group that does exactly as described.

[*jason*]

(08-31-2020, 11:59 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Here's the thing about this forum.  You make a statement about what you believe will happen, or is likely to happen, and there are several people who will automatically conclude that this is what you, personally, want to have happen.  I realize, btw, that you are not one of those people.  When I say "x" will happen, or be perceived a certain way, it's because I believe that to be correct, not because I necessarily think it's right.

No I get it... And I think you're right. I mentioned in another thread that the people who swarmed Rand Paul and his wife the other night really gave the Trump campaign some good material. On top of how uncomfortable that situation would make anyone feel, a cop got shoved off balance by one of those people intimidating Paul, and the officer didn't react or retaliate... He kept trying to escort Paul.

Baaaaddd optics!!!