Confederate Flag Misunderstood?

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(06-24-2015, 04:44 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So ends the civil discussion.

Sorry if I hurt your feelings.  I didn't know that calling out absolute falsehoods would be so offensive to you.

I'll get into this more later, I'm headed to work now.

[BengalHawk62]

(06-24-2015, 03:53 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: Wow you fail at history.   You're one of those that refer to it as "The War of Northern Aggression" aren't you.

Soooooo, you're saying we have a moral obligation to eradicate the flag from history?




what are you saying?

[StLucieBengal]

(06-24-2015, 02:57 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: The flag was removed from the dome in 2000 as a compromise it was allowed to be displayed on the memorial near the entrance to the capital. 

So it's part of the memorial. I Guess they are gonna remove the whole memorial as well?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(06-24-2015, 02:16 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: If it was treason and the flags of the CSA are symbols of treason, than so are the flags of the United States. A more successful treason and one that we like, but treason none the less.

One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. I understand your point and respect your opinion. However, I view the "catalyst" for the American Revolution as justifiable. Whereas I don't view the "catalyst" for the Civil War as justifiable.  I will use deadly force as an analogy; deadly force is only justifiable under certain conditions. I've never been particularly interested in history, but I'm not buying into the northern aggression revisionism. Seems like the typical political BS you would expect from the politicians of the day. I can imagine an 1860s Lindsey Graham giving a speech explaining secession is about States' rights and has nothing to do with slavery. I don't believe the States' rights argument any more than I do the Iraqi WMDs argument.

[*jason*]

(06-24-2015, 01:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The next question is; How far do we go? The State flags of Florida (somebody once said it wasn’t part of the South), Mississippi, Arkansas, Georgia, and Alabama all use the Confederate Flag in their theme. Do we remove those as well?
 
In a related story: there is now a push here in Kentucky to remove a statue of native Son Jefferson Davis from the State capital:

 
Should we be required to shut down the State Park named after Jefferson Davis?

 
Should we be forced to destroy the Jefferson Davis Monument?

The 5th tallest Monument in the US and the tallest unreinforced concrete structure in the World.

Where do we draw the line when we start regulating what states can or cannot display?

We draw the line at the Confederate flag flying on the grounds of a state legislative building.  I think that it is fine to fly that flag at Jefferson Davis' house, monument, a confederate cemetery, at your house, on your truck, on your shirt, on your bikini or bathing suit, on a boat with a goat...  Just not at the place (the SC statehouse) in question.

[SteelCitySouth]

(06-24-2015, 05:17 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: So it's part of the memorial.    I Guess they are gonna remove the whole memorial as well?

At this time I'm not sure if the memorial goes or not.  They are still debating it in the State.  I'm really not sure why you are so concerned if a State decides to remove certain flags or effigies within it's borders per the request of it's own people.

[*bfine32*]

(06-24-2015, 05:24 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: I'm really not sure why you are so concerned if a State decides to remove certain flags or effigies within it's borders per the request of it's own people.

Should it be the majority of the people or just some?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(06-24-2015, 05:17 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: So it's part of the memorial.    I Guess they are gonna remove the whole memorial as well?

Oh, yeah. That's reasonable. Let's remove the entire monument because only the flag has been adopted by white supremacist, racists, and hate groups instead of removing just the symbol adopted by the hate groups. If this is about heritage and not hate, no reasonable person would suggest removing the entire monument. Thank you for your reasonable suggestion. I wouldn't expect less of you.

[SteelCitySouth]

(06-24-2015, 05:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Should it be the majority of the people or just some?

It has been show repeatedly that the desire to remove the flag is supported in this state by the majority.  It has been for nearly a decade. 

[*jason*]

I completely understand that some southerners view the flag as a memorial to their great great granddad who died 150 some odd years ago fighting for his state.  I have no problem with that.  To anyone  else in this country, and 99.9998% of the black citizens of South Carolina it is a symbol of racial hatred...  If I were a 4 yr old, I would think it is a cool looking flag.  Whoever designed it was onto something, but it has been engrained in my head as a symbol of white supremacy and bigotry.... Because that's what it is.





Period.

[StLucieBengal]

(06-24-2015, 05:24 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: At this time I'm not sure if the memorial goes or not.  They are still debating it in the State.  I'm really not sure why you are so concerned if a State decides to remove certain flags or effigies within it's borders per the request of it's own people.

I dont care one way or the other. The only part that bothers me is that so many outside of SC are chiming in to slam the flag that obviously aren't educated on it or the whole reason we had a civil war. I don't live there so I don't have the right to tell anyone there what they should do.... But I don't like the tone of some who are trying to push an agenda. Let the citizens of SC decide, put it on the ballot .

Do you live in SC? I know you have told me before but I can't remember...

[Belsnickel]

(06-24-2015, 05:30 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Oh, yeah. That's reasonable. Let's remove the entire monument because only the flag has been adopted by white supremacist, racists, and hate groups instead of removing just the symbol adopted by the hate groups. If this is about heritage and not hate, no reasonable person would suggest removing the entire monument. Thank you for your reasonable suggestion. I wouldn't expect less of you.

You say this, but there are efforts in places to sanitize the Confederate history. I see news reports about it in some of the more liberal cities in my state. Getting rid of monuments to the soldiers from the war and the like.

I'm waiting for them to make that attempt at VMI. It's a state institution steeped in Confederate history. Was known as the West Point of the south. Their cadets marched the roughly 80 miles to fight in a battle here in the valley and the cadets make that march yearly in commemoration of it all. But it's a state school. It will be interesting to see how that all plays out as we move on.

[*jason*]

(06-24-2015, 05:35 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I dont care one way or the other.   The only part that bothers me is that so many outside of SC are chiming in to slam the flag that obviously aren't educated on it or the whole reason we had a civil war.    I don't live there so I don't have the right to tell anyone there what they should do....  But I don't like the tone of some who are trying to push an agenda.   Let the citizens of SC decide, put it on the ballot .  

Do you live in SC?  I know you have told me before but I can't remember...

You don't live in Syria or Iraq either so get off ISIS' ass.

[StLucieBengal]

(06-24-2015, 05:36 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: You say this, but there are efforts in places to sanitize the Confederate history. I see news reports about it in some of the more liberal cities in my state. Getting rid of monuments to the soldiers from the war and the like.

I'm waiting for them to make that attempt at VMI. It's a state institution steeped in Confederate history. Was known as the West Point of the south. Their cadets marched the roughly 80 miles to fight in a battle here in the valley and the cadets make that march yearly in commemoration of it all. But it's a state school. It will be interesting to see how that all plays out as we move on.

They have been changing history and what's taught for over 100 years now... It's a mistake to change history we must all know the good, the bad, and the ugly.

[*jason*]

(06-24-2015, 05:35 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I dont care one way or the other.   The only part that bothers me is that so many outside of SC are chiming in to slam the flag that obviously aren't educated on it or the whole reason we had a civil war.    I don't live there so I don't have the right to tell anyone there what they should do....  But I don't like the tone of some who are trying to push an agenda.   Let the citizens of SC decide, put it on the ballot .  

Do you live in SC?  I know you have told me before but I can't remember...

The thing is, nobody is telling them what to do.  We are just looking down on them for doing it.

[StLucieBengal]

(06-24-2015, 05:39 PM)jason Wrote: You don't live in Syria or Iraq either so get off ISIS' ass.

Sure as soon as they take their pro sharia law buddies from my country and take them home.

Oh and stop raping, murdering, and enslaving christians.

Soon as they do that then I will stop.

[WhoDeyWho]

(06-24-2015, 05:35 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I dont care one way or the other.   The only part that bothers me is that so many outside of SC are chiming in to slam the flag that obviously aren't educated on it or the whole reason we had a civil war.    I don't live there so I don't have the right to tell anyone there what they should do....  But I don't like the tone of some who are trying to push an agenda.   Let the citizens of SC decide, put it on the ballot .  

Do you live in SC?  I know you have told me before but I can't remember...

Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union

It appears it had to do with the North not playing nice in regard to slavery.  

[*jason*]

(06-24-2015, 05:43 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Sure as soon as they take their pro sharia law buddies from my country and take them home.  

Oh and stop raping, murdering, and enslaving christians.  

Soon as they do that then I will stop.

Substitute Christians with blacks, and maybe you will see what the hubbub about that flag is all about...

[Bmoreblitz]

It was removed from the statehouse in 2000 with bipartisan support, which was and is the appropriate thing to do - it has no place on a building in which law is made. At a memorial site to those who fought for the Confederate States of America, don't care.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(06-24-2015, 05:36 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: You say this, but there are efforts in places to sanitize the Confederate history. I see news reports about it in some of the more liberal cities in my state. Getting rid of monuments to the soldiers from the war and the like.

I'm waiting for them to make that attempt at VMI. It's a state institution steeped in Confederate history. Was known as the West Point of the south. Their cadets marched the roughly 80 miles to fight in a battle here in the valley and the cadets make that march yearly in commemoration of it all. But it's a state school. It will be interesting to see how that all plays out as we move on.

I'm not part of any of those efforts. I'm not a part of any effort to remove any flags although I disagree with their display. The only thing I am involved in is a conversation in which some (not all) refuse to admit the significance of that flag. I recognize for some they wish to honor their fallen soldiers. I would hope those people would recognize how that flag has been misused by hate groups and what it represents to those hate groups (the shooter) as well as what it also represents to the people they hate (the shooter's victims.) I think the monuments can honor the dead without the sumbol of hatred.