ESPN's Arthur Ashe Courage Award and the dropped ball

[GMDino]

(06-03-2015, 09:00 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I wish I could say I cared one way or the other about this, but to whom a television channel gives an award is about as important to me as how many times Vladimir Putin took a dump today. That is to say, not at all.

Bingo.

My response to the same type of comment on Facebook today:

Quote:How about we stop giving the award to any one person? How many of our men and women come back damaged (physically and mentally) and fight through it to be good people? How many people do we know who have fought through disease and pain to make a good life for themselves? How many people do we know who have faced living a lie and finally had the courage to be the person they wanted to be/believed they were?

How about the ESPY's hand out meaningless sports awards to people who play games better than most and leave it at that?

[RoyleRedlegs]

(06-04-2015, 12:06 AM)GMDino Wrote: Bingo.

My response to the same type of comment on Facebook today:

Well your response would make sense if it were a general award...but it is about sports...

[RoyleRedlegs]

(06-03-2015, 09:00 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I wish I could say I cared one way or the other about this, but to whom a television channel gives an award is about as important to me as how many times Vladimir Putin took a dump today. That is to say, not at all.

For me it is about the legacy and awareness. (If I were serious in my poll, Sager and even Leah Still would have been better choices, or Steve Gleason who could win it every year) 

Jenner's legacy will be an awful reality show that helped spawn an awful family into the limelight. 

[GMDino]

(06-04-2015, 12:26 AM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Well your response would make sense if it were a general award...but it is about sports...

But its an awful sports award.  Every day people show courage without the press the three people listed have.

(06-04-2015, 12:29 AM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: For me it is about the legacy and awareness. (If I were serious in my poll, Sager and even Leah Still would have been better choices, or Steve Gleason who could win it every year) 

Jenner's legacy will be an awful reality show that helped spawn an awful family into the limelight. 

Technically they were spawned by Kim's taking it up the exit door.

Jenner married in to it.

I do think what she has done is brave.  Not groundbreaking, but brave.

[BmorePat87]

(06-03-2015, 08:29 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Who has attacked her? 
Huckabee? 

Yea, that's who I was referring to

(06-03-2015, 10:33 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: My comment on social commentary had more to do with ESPN, than Jenner.  Of course it was a personal choice for Jenner, he/she must have been missing the attention, or something.  What really disturbs me is the fact that NBC Nightly News dedicated time to the story.  Why is this story National News worthy? 

What story?  An athlete known for virtually nothing since winning the Decathlon in '76, decided that after fading from the limelight, to pay for a sex change, and 11 additional surgeries to make it look realistic.  Big deal.  How many "everyday" trans folk can afford to do that?  So, now instead of being the elite alpha male in American athletic society, she is now the elitist fake woman ever? 

I'm not buying into it.  Not Nightly News worthy to me.

While her story is much easier in that regards to the vast majority of trans folk, she also has it harder in that her transition was publicized and talked about before she wanted it to be known. She faces far more scrutiny in that sense. However, she doesn't face the unemployment, homelessness, and risk of violence that many others do. The reason why it is national news is because it's a famous person making the transition. It serves as a learning lesson and an inspirational story for others.

(06-04-2015, 12:06 AM)GMDino Wrote: Bingo.

My response to the same type of comment on Facebook today:

I like that idea. CNN does that with their heroes.

[SteelCitySouth]

I love how ya'll are so serious about the ESPYS or whatever the acronym is...LOL...It is literally worthless.

[Ben Richards]

Like a Steeler fan on a Bengals message board... LOL

[SteelCitySouth]

(06-04-2015, 10:05 AM)Ben Richards Wrote: Like a Steeler fan on a Bengals message board... LOL

Like your mom with a child...LOL

[*jason*]

(06-04-2015, 10:00 AM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: I love how ya'll are so serious about the ESPYS or whatever the acronym is...LOL...It is literally worthless.

Speaking for myself, I could give two ***** about the ESPYs.  I would imagine that most who have posted here feel the same way, but this particular award is to honor courage.  Lauren Hill is sort of a local hero now (so it's kind of personal for us) because she spit in death's face, refused to feel sorry for herself, and showed countless other people how to live life to it's fullest right up to the very end.  Jenner was courageous enough to finally be herself or whatever...  But you are right, it doesn't really matter.

[Johnny Cupcakes]

(06-04-2015, 10:07 AM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: Like your mom with a child...LOL

Flawless Victory!

[xxlt]

Saw a lot of this talk on FB this morning. Saw some similar comments about Jenner not connected to the Ashe Award but questioning her courage. It all seemed like thinly veiled hate too me. Note: I am not accusing the OP in this thread of that, but what I saw on FB was coming off as hate disguised as something else.

As to who is more deserving of an award, I think it is maybe not a question worth arguing, especially when it isn't MVP which you can actually look at stats and argue. I mean with an award like this; "courage" is a pretty subjective thing.

And ESPN is a bastion of terrible people and decisions, I will agree with the OP on that.

But, with no disrespect to Lauren Hill and her supporters, there are Laurens around the US with families and friends rallying around them and some get some media exposure and some don't. Some want it, some don't. The fact there was a social media campaign rallying around her makes her no more a "shill" than the fact Jenner did an interview makes her one.

Also, let's be honest. If you are a celebrity and the world is going to be talking about you anyway would you rather just be splashed all over media and get nothing from it or would you try to make a buck? Most people would say, hey, if the paparazzi are coming and I am going to be headline and late night talk fodder I might as well try to make some money. I feel like anyone who says otherwise is being kind of dishonest.

Name a celebrity. Name an athlete. Does either person you just named need more money? No, but they continue to work, get paid, yada yada yada. But somehow Jenner is a POS for trying to make money? Seems kind of like a double standard to me.

Lauren wasn't rich, I suppose. Does that make her more deserving than Leah Still or some other kid with cancer who plays ball somewhere who is rich? That point seems irrelevant. More of you have heard of Lauren than Mary Jane Ijustmadethisnameup from Possum Trot, Mississippi but maybe Mary Jane was just as courageous and just as deserving and maybe everybody in Possum Trot knows that story. Would people be running to protest if MJ got the award over "our Lauren?" Again, doesn't seem like the hill I want to go to battle for.

Ashe, for whom the award is named, was a pioneer and a symbol whether he wanted to be or not and he conducted himself with class. So far, I see a parallel with Jenner. She is a pioneer and could hardly have done what she did in secrecy, so she was going to be a symbol and a lightning rod whether she wanted to or not. And so far she is doing it with class. And hers is a story impacting a whole lot of people, so on the scale of influence I would say her story is bigger than any other "contender" for the award, and all that together I think makes the choice to give her the award pretty appropriate.

[xxlt]

(06-03-2015, 08:01 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: It isn't like ESPN was unaware...they did a few specials on her and kept tabs.

Everyone for every reason gets horrible things said to them once you are in the spotlight. And considering a vast majority of that is on Twitter and such or coming from known sources of idiocy and to be ignored anyways, I don't see it.  She can log off and go on a trip to get away from it.  

Yeah, but ESPN did this for ratings, not out of the goodness of their heart. And as someone said, a bigger ratings draw came along in the form of Jenner, so the circus moved on. Sad for the people who are hurt by the choice but pleased others are saying, 'it is a meaningless award given by an evil corporation so who really cares.' I feel sympathy for the former but my thoughts follow those of the latter.

[*jason*]

(06-04-2015, 10:41 AM)xxlt Wrote: Saw a lot of this talk on FB this morning. Saw some similar comments about Jenner not connected to the Ashe Award but questioning her courage. It all seemed like thinly veiled hate too me. Note: I am not accusing the OP in this thread of that, but what I saw on FB was coming off as hate disguised as something else.

As to who is more deserving of an award, I think it is maybe not a question worth arguing, especially when it isn't MVP which you can actually look at stats and argue. I mean with an award like this; "courage" is a pretty subjective thing.

And ESPN is a bastion of terrible people and decisions, I will agree with the OP on that.

But, with no disrespect to Lauren Hill and her supporters, there are Laurens around the US with families and friends rallying around them and some get some media exposure and some don't. Some want it, some don't. The fact there was a social media campaign rallying around her makes her no more a "shill" than the fact Jenner did an interview makes her one.

Also, let's be honest. If you are a celebrity and the world is going to be talking about you anyway would you rather just be splashed all over media and get nothing from it or would you try to make a buck? Most people would say, hey, if the paparazzi are coming and I am going to be headline and late night talk fodder I might as well try to make some money. I feel like anyone who says otherwise is being kind of dishonest.

Name a celebrity. Name an athlete. Does either person you just named need more money? No, but they continue to work, get paid, yada yada yada. But somehow Jenner is a POS for trying to make money? Seems kind of like a double standard to me.

Lauren wasn't rich, I suppose. Does that make her more deserving than Leah Still or some other kid with cancer who plays ball somewhere who is rich? That point seems irrelevant. More of you have heard of Lauren than Mary Jane Ijustmadethisnameup from Possum Trot, Mississippi but maybe Mary Jane was just as courageous and just as deserving and maybe everybody in Possum Trot knows that story. Would people be running to protest if MJ got the award over "our Lauren?" Again, doesn't seem like the hill I want to go to battle for.

Ashe, for whom the award is named, was a pioneer and a symbol whether he wanted to be or not and he conducted himself with class. So far, I see a parallel with Jenner. She is a pioneer and could hardly have done what she did in secrecy, so she was going to be a symbol and a lightning rod whether she wanted to or not. And so far she is doing it with class. And hers is a story impacting a whole lot of people, so on the scale of influence I would say her story is bigger than any other "contender" for the award, and all that together I think makes the choice to give her the award pretty appropriate.

Why exactly couldn't Jenner have done what she did in secrecy?  She's only in the limelight for the last few years because she chose to be.  Hell he could have even married into that goofy family, and recused himself from that show.  Cameras and media aren't following Dorothy Hamill around.  I remember seeing Johnny Rotten in an interview discussing Kurt Cobain's suicide.  He said something along the lines of... If Kurt was so sick of being a star and the pressure that goes with it, all he had to do was stop being one.

[*bfine32*]

All we have to do is go back to last year's winner to find ESPN's motivation behind this award the last couple of years.


or else it is just a reflection of our society,

[Millhouse]

Crap didnt look here before posting in the klotsch thread on Jenner. Basically I said what a joke which is what most people agree with.

I also was listening to Cowherd on this, and he seemed genuinly pissed that Jenner got this award over Lauren Hill. He probably will get in trouble for a couple of things, but I agreed with him before even listening. She faced death and still fought on until the end inspiring anyone with half a heart. Jenner on the other hand becomes a woman, signs a big book deal, and getting a new t.v. show. Yeah, what a effing joke.

*for the record I am full supporter of gay, lesbian, etc. rights. But this decision was purely political correct it seems choosing a celebrity getting a sex change over a college athlete that inspired millions when facing death*

[xxlt]

(06-04-2015, 11:00 AM)jason Wrote: Why exactly couldn't Jenner have done what she did in secrecy?  She's only in the limelight for the last few years because she chose to be.  Hell he could have even married into that goofy family, and recused himself from that show.  Cameras and media aren't following Dorothy Hamill around.  I remember seeing Johnny Rotten in an interview discussing Kurt Cobain's suicide.  He said something along the lines of... If Kurt was so sick of being a star and the pressure that goes with it, all he had to do was stop being one.

Hamill is a good reference - same era and yes off the radar at present. However, were she to transition I have a funny feeling it would not be in anonymity whether she wanted it to be or not. I grant you I can't prove the point and have no first hand experience but I doubt you can prove/have first hand experience either.

As far as Johnny Rotten's comment goes, I think he was being naive about Cobain. Or maybe he thinks he quit being a star but I think the world quit him and his band, which is a bit different. Of course we all tell ourselves what we believe to be the truth. So maybe Johnny thinks he walked away and tells himself that.

And maybe Cobain was ill equipped to deal with celebrity or navigate out of it, but I think even if that is true Rotten's comments sound kind of dickish. I mean, questioning the victim of a suicide is not taking the high road if you ask me...

I honestly hope the news copters and vans and paparazzi never show up on your street, but if they do I think it might give you a different perspective on how easy it is to avoid them even if they are down the block at the neighbors. It doesn't look fun or easy to avoid to me.

[xxlt]

(06-04-2015, 11:40 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Crap didnt look here before posting in the klotsch thread on Jenner. Basically I said what a joke which is what most people agree with.

I also was listening to Cowherd on this, and he seemed genuinly pissed that Jenner got this award over Lauren Hill. He probably will get in trouble for a couple of things, but I agreed with him before even listening. She faced death and still fought on until the end inspiring anyone with half a heart. Jenner on the other hand becomes a woman, signs a big book deal, and getting a new t.v. show. Yeah, what a effing joke.

*for the record I am full supporter of gay, lesbian, etc. rights. But this decision was purely political correct it seems choosing a celebrity getting a sex change over a college athlete that inspired millions when facing death*

Why is it surprising when a big media company makes a decision motivated by politics and economics?

In the absence of Jenner let's say the award went to Hill. Then you can have people questioning them for trying to profit from a young woman's death, which they most certainly would be doing.

So, what I am getting is there is a contingent here who would rather see ESPN profiteer on a young female athlete's untimely death over profiteering on the gender politics of the day. Sorry, but not the bandwagon I want to jump on.

[Ben Richards]

Reading some of the idiotic posts made here is proof enough why Jenner should get the award.

[RoyleRedlegs]

So THIS happened.

Jenner and her people demanded the award and threatened to pull out of the ABC Diane Sawyer interview if he didn't win.

[Benton]

(07-16-2015, 04:06 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: So THIS happened.

Jenner and her people demanded the award and threatened to pull out of the ABC Diane Sawyer interview if he didn't win.

Anonymous sources usually aren't worth much more than awards given out by televisions channels.

And, personally, I don't care much about the award. I would be hard pressed to name anyone on the list. But I do think it's funny people are all upset about Jenner getting the award for his announcement made during a time where it's not the most positive thing, when the award itself is named for a guy who was considered courageous for bringing public attention to HIV at a time when it wasn't the most positive thing.