Evangelical Magazine Supports Impeachment and Removal

[Benton]

(12-24-2019, 07:38 AM)BakertheBeast Wrote: I think the reason he brought up prostitutes is because Trump being the devout christian he is, has used the services of prostitutes many times thru his marriages and the birth of his children.

He's trying to prove a point I've never tried to make, and applying what I've said about other things to how he's interpreting what he thinks I'm saying. And it's incorrect.

Anyone can be a Christian. All you've got to do is accept Christ and make an effort to love other people. Thats the nutshell. You can break it down (and most churches do) to don't kill people, don't lie to people, don't steal from people, etc. 

You don't even have to be perfect in it. You can screw up. It's ok. But the key part is you have to try.

The notion that you can be a Christian just by calling yourself one is absurd without any effort to actually follow through. 

Trump in a nutshell has been: 'im a Christian, you horse faced idiot. You're a loser if you don't cheat on your taxes. And your wives. Now go punch someone, or else you're a loser. And you're probly out to get me because you're a loser.'

It doesn't matter if you sin. We all do. What matters is that you're making an effort not to. Given that trump does the same multiple sins on a daily basis for the last..ever... I don't see him as a Christian. And not because it's the same sin, but because he never tried to make amends, never shows any repentance. Remorse over our mistakes is part of absolution. Trump shows none. 

And comparing him to Christ is revolting.

[GMDino]

(12-24-2019, 02:21 AM)bfine32 Wrote: As to the article: I've not read it and most likely will not; seems silly really. 

Five days, 12 responses, and you haven't even read the article but you insist on arguing about the points it made...without understanding it.  Rather you have gone off on a tangent to defend Trump from someone.  Again.

Brilliant addition to the discussion.


At least this post adds to the discussion by pointing out how it got skewed by someone who never read the article.

[GMDino]

(12-24-2019, 09:55 AM)Benton Wrote: He's trying to prove a point I've never tried to make, and applying what I've said about other things to how he's interpreting what he thinks I'm saying. And it's incorrect.

Anyone can be a Christian. All you've got to do is accept Christ and make an effort to love other people. Thats the nutshell. You can break it down (and most churches do) to don't kill people, don't lie to people, don't steal from people, etc. 

You don't even have to be perfect in it. You can screw up. It's ok. But the key part is you have to try.

The notion that you can be a Christian just by calling yourself one is absurd without any effort to actually follow through. 

Trump in a nutshell has been: 'im a Christian, you horse faced idiot. You're a loser if you don't cheat on your taxes. And your wives. Now go punch someone, or else you're a loser. And you're probly out to get me because you're a loser.'

It doesn't matter if you sin. We all do. What matters is that you're making an effort not to. Given that trump does the same multiple sins on a daily basis for the last..ever... I don't see him as a Christian. And not because it's the same sin, but because he never tried to make amends, never shows any repentance. Remorse over our mistakes is part of absolution. Trump shows none. 

And comparing him to Christ is revolting.

[*bfine32*]

(12-24-2019, 04:43 AM)Benton Wrote: Thanks for quoting to show I didn't say we should stone prostitutes. I'll go ahead and add, I don't think we should stone anyone. Mostly based on beliefs, I'm against the death penalty.

And we were discussing trump and the effort to paint him as a Christian , you brought up prostitutes. If you're concerned about the thread getting off topic, stay on it.

No one ever said you would stone prostitutes. I brought up a very popular parable about Jesus and his views on man versus man. I brought this up because you said it is a Christian's duty to judge if someone else is a Christian; especially one who professes to be. 

We were actually discussing a man saying Trump is not a Christian. I shared my views that no man can judge as they are win sin, you took the counter point and said we should. 

[*bfine32*]

(12-24-2019, 09:55 AM)Benton Wrote: He's trying to prove a point I've never tried to make, and applying what I've said about other things to how he's interpreting what he thinks I'm saying. And it's incorrect.

Anyone can be a Christian. All you've got to do is accept Christ and make an effort to love other people. Thats the nutshell. You can break it down (and most churches do) to don't kill people, don't lie to people, don't steal from people, etc. 

You don't even have to be perfect in it. You can screw up. It's ok. But the key part is you have to try.

The notion that you can be a Christian just by calling yourself one is absurd without any effort to actually follow through. 

Trump in a nutshell has been: 'im a Christian, you horse faced idiot. You're a loser if you don't cheat on your taxes. And your wives. Now go punch someone, or else you're a loser. And you're probly out to get me because you're a loser.'

It doesn't matter if you sin. We all do. What matters is that you're making an effort not to. Given that trump does the same multiple sins on a daily basis for the last..ever... I don't see him as a Christian. And not because it's the same sin, but because he never tried to make amends, never shows any repentance. Remorse over our mistakes is part of absolution. Trump shows none. 

And comparing him to Christ is revolting.

"He" quoted exactly what you said. Now you can use your mod powers and go back and change what you said, you can continue this "I didn't say it", or you can admit what you said and restate your position. But do not try to paint me as the one making shit up. 

You have no idea what effort anyone else puts forth in attempts to "actually follow through" being a Christian. But apparently you feel you are entitled to judge it.

I agree comparing him to Christ is revolting; as is lying. 

I have continued with this discourse because it is extremely important; especially to the non-believer that may be reading. 

But let's put an end to all your back pedaling: Is it a Christian's responsibility to judge if another professed Christian is "really" a Christian or not? 

[*bfine32*]

(12-24-2019, 10:07 AM)GMDino Wrote: Five days, 12 responses, and you haven't even read the article but you insist on arguing about the points it made...without understanding it.  Rather you have gone off on a tangent to defend Trump from someone.  Again.

Brilliant addition to the discussion.


At least this post adds to the discussion by pointing out how it got skewed by someone who never read the article.

I am arguing the point that it is a Christian's duty to judge whether another professed Christian is "really" a Christian. No one has defended Trump, you just assign that role to everyone who doesn't slur him at every turn. Is Trump a Christian? I don't know, but apparently there are those around here who do. He'll have his chance to speak before his father as we all will.

Five days and I've asked you (the creator of the thread) one simple question: Does the author think Trump should be removed because he's not religious? And you answer is "read the article". Seems quite rude for a host.

(12-24-2019, 10:10 AM)GMDino Wrote:

Dude you don't have to suck up to him. We all know you're safe. 

[GMDino]

(12-24-2019, 12:55 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I am arguing the point that it is a Christian's duty to judge whether another professed Christian is "really" a Christian. No one has defended Trump, you just assign that role to everyone who doesn't slur him at every turn. Is Trump a Christian? I don't know, but apparently there are those around here who do. He'll have his chance to speak before his father as we all will.

Five days and I've asked you (the creator of the thread) one simple question: Does the author think Trump should be removed because he's not religious? And you answer is "read the article". Seems quite rude for a host.

Dude you don't have to suck up to him. We all know you're safe. 

I ain't the "host".  I shared an article for others to read and form an opinion.

I ain't the author either.  If you read it you'd know that.   

One person chooses not to read it (it's "silly") but rather to argue about it sight unseen then not understand why people don't agree with them?

Happy holidays.  Hope Santa brings you something real nice...maybe a ladder to help you off that cross.

[*bfine32*]

(12-24-2019, 01:17 PM)GMDino Wrote: I ain't the "host".  I shared an article for others to read and form an opinion.

I ain't the author either.  If you read it you'd know that.   

One person chooses not to read it (it's "silly") but rather to argue about it sight unseen then not understand why people don't agree with them?

Happy holidays.  Hope Santa brings you something real nice...maybe a ladder to help you off that cross.

No need for personal insults and IMO when someone starts a thread they are the host of that thread, but if you thin it's better to "post and run" so be it. I asked you a simple question about the article you felt was worth sharing. 

For the last time: I am not arguing about the article; I have merely asked a simple question about it. I am debating the point made by another poster (one who has not discussed the article, but you have applauded) in this thread who stated Christians should judge; as it goes against my fundamental beliefs. 

[fredtoast]

Trump said that he has never ask God for forgiveness for anything.

To me that means he can't be a Christian. You have to ask Jesus to forgive your sins before you can be a Christian, right?

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/trump-forgiveness-god-224068


During an appearance at the Family Leadership Summit last July, Trump said that he has never asked God for forgiveness but that he does take communion, which he described as "[w]hen I drink my little wine -- which is about the only wine I drink -- and have my little cracker, I guess that is a form of asking for forgiveness, and I do that as often as possible because I feel cleansed."

Prior to his endorsement from evangelical leader Jerry Falwell Jr. in January, Trump told CNN's Jake Tapper that he does not "like to have to ask for forgiveness. And I am good. I don't do a lot of things that are bad. I try to do nothing that is bad."

He does understand Holy Communion.

He does not understand what is required to become a Christian.

In an interview with columnist Cal Thomas, Trump was asked, "You have said you never felt the need to ask for God’s forgiveness, and yet repentance for one’s sins is a precondition to salvation. I ask you the question Jesus asked of Peter: Who do you say He is?"

"I will be asking for forgiveness, but hopefully I won’t have to be asking for much forgiveness. As you know, I am Presbyterian and Protestant.

I mean he is both Presbyterian AND Protestant.

[Benton]

(12-21-2019, 01:31 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Was the prostitute that Jesus stopped the stoning of deserving of man's judgement? Apparently Benton and you have heard teachings that lead you to believe that.

(12-24-2019, 12:38 PM)bfine32 Wrote: No one ever said you would stone prostitutes. 

No one... Except bfine.

Seriously, you didn't say I would. You passive aggressively implied I'm ok with it.

[Benton]

(12-24-2019, 12:48 PM)bfine32 Wrote: "He" quoted exactly what you said. Now you can use your mod powers and go back and change what you said, you can continue this "I didn't say it", or you can admit what you said and restate your position. But do not try to paint me as the one making shit up. 

You have no idea what effort anyone else puts forth in attempts to "actually follow through" being a Christian. But apparently you feel you are entitled to judge it.

I agree comparing him to Christ is revolting; as is lying. 

I have continued with this discourse because it is extremely important; especially to the non-believer that may be reading. 

But let's put an end to all your back pedaling: Is it a Christian's responsibility to judge if another professed Christian is "really" a Christian or not? 

I don't have to change anything. You're making stuff up, either deliberately or through some brain fog.



As to the question, I've answered that. I'll answer it again, and I'll try to explain it better.

Yes. A christian has a responsibility to determine what Christian behavior is.

Why? To punish or condemn? No.

To teach, to guide and to set an example.

To use an extreme example: if Hitler professes to be a Christian, leads a genocide, abuses his own people, steals from folks, lies... Is he a Christian? Do Christians have a responsibility to other Christians or potential Christians to make sure they know that's not Christ like behavior?

I disagree with your belief that to be a Christian all you have to do is call yourself one.

No back pedaling. Some of us say exactly what we mean. Some of us.

Some.

[*bfine32*]

I asked you where I ever stated you're OK with stoning a prostitute, as you claimed, and you start one post with this:

Benton Wrote:No one... Except bfine.

Seriously, you didn't say I would. You passive aggressively implied I'm ok with it.

And end other with this in an attempt to question my being forthright….

Quote:No back pedaling. Some of us say exactly what we mean. Some of us.


Some.

Of course those that can read can plainly see I said exactly what I said and you are the one that has to come up with “what your words really meant”. I clearly said (given your responses in this thread) you would be ok with man passing judgement on the morality of another. Nowhere did I say you approved of the sentence and/or the execution. We don’t stone people in America anymore and sometimes our judgement is nothing more than declaring someone is not a Christian; but it's still judgement.


Furthermore you continue to make shit up with this:

Quote:I disagree with your belief that to be a Christian all you have to do is call yourself one.

You spout this latest lie in an attempt to make my beliefs seemed like the unreasoned ones. When folks that can read can easily see I said this:

bfine32 Wrote:Do you believe in Christ and have you confessed this publicly.

So leaving out the part about believing in the son of God is kind of an important part to omit don’t you think?


I further have shared this

Quote:Perhaps the next time you interact with the Facebook Pastor you could explain to him that the Christian should be reborn every day and not to cast judgement.

This indicates the Christian “should” also renew that faith and ask for forgiveness and grace daily.


WTS, I’m done with the back and forth; as it has been showed you will just twist both of our words, post a long, disingenuous response, have Dino applaud your BS, and then close the forum for a few days immediately after said response. For my part I have quoted responses word for word and replied to exactly what was written. I did misquote you on thinking the woman was weird (only her beliefs were weird) and freely admitted so.

I just wanted to make sure anyone reading this back and forth and the premise of the OP knows that I and many others do not believe it is one Christian’s role to judge whether another person is a Christian. So if you’ve ever given it thought know that I and many Christians will not pass judgement on you. We will encourage and provide guidance to the best of our teachings, but we will never judge you.

[GMDino]

(12-26-2019, 07:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I asked you where I ever stated you're OK with stoning a prostitute, as you claimed, and you start one post with this:



And end other with this in an attempt to question my being forthright….




Of course those that can read can plainly see I said exactly what I said and you are the one that has to come up with “what your words really meant”. I clearly said (given your responses in this thread) you would be ok with man passing judgement on the morality of another. Nowhere did I say you approved of the sentence and/or the execution. We don’t stone people in America anymore and sometimes our judgement is nothing more than declaring someone is not a Christian; but it's still judgement.


Furthermore you continue to make shit up with this:


You spout this latest lie in an attempt to make my beliefs seemed like the unreasoned ones. When folks that can read can easily see I said this:

So leaving out the part about believing in the son of God is kind of an important part to omit don’t you think?


I further have shared this


This indicates the Christian “should” also renew that faith and ask for forgiveness and grace daily.


WTS, I’m done with the back and forth; as it has been showed you will just twist both of our words, post a long, disingenuous response, have Dino applaud your BS, and then close the forum for a few days immediately after said response. For my part I have quoted responses word for word and replied to exactly what was written. I did misquote you on thinking the woman was weird (only her beliefs were weird) and freely admitted so.

I just wanted to make sure anyone reading this back and forth and the premise of the OP knows that I and many others do not believe it is one Christian’s role to judge whether another person is a Christian. So if you’ve ever given it thought know that I and many Christians will not pass judgement on you. We will encourage and provide guidance to the best of our teachings, but we will never judge you.

Dude it was closed for Christmas. 

At to judging:  Benton made it perfectly clear that we all judge and and that it is not to condemn but to show now not to act/behave.

Trump claims to be a Christian but acts and talks the exact opposite of a Christian.  Wanna call that "judging" him?  Feel free.  Wanna say that everyone is wrong?  Go ahead.  But to deny Trump's words and deeds (and lack of repentance) is foolishness.

btw, you still never read the article. 

[Benton]

(12-26-2019, 07:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I asked you where I ever stated you're OK with stoning a prostitute, as you claimed, and you start one post with this:



And end other with this in an attempt to question my being forthright….




Of course those that can read can plainly see I said exactly what I said and you are the one that has to come up with “what your words really meant”. I clearly said (given your responses in this thread) you would be ok with man passing judgement on the morality of another. Nowhere did I say you approved of the sentence and/or the execution. We don’t stone people in America anymore and sometimes our judgement is nothing more than declaring someone is not a Christian; but it's still judgement.


Furthermore you continue to make shit up with this:


You spout this latest lie in an attempt to make my beliefs seemed like the unreasoned ones. When folks that can read can easily see I said this:

So leaving out the part about believing in the son of God is kind of an important part to omit don’t you think?


I further have shared this


This indicates the Christian “should” also renew that faith and ask for forgiveness and grace daily.


WTS, I’m done with the back and forth; as it has been showed you will just twist both of our words, post a long, disingenuous response, have Dino applaud your BS, and then close the forum for a few days immediately after said response. For my part I have quoted responses word for word and replied to exactly what was written. I did misquote you on thinking the woman was weird (only her beliefs were weird) and freely admitted so.

I just wanted to make sure anyone reading this back and forth and the premise of the OP knows that I and many others do not believe it is one Christian’s role to judge whether another person is a Christian. So if you’ve ever given it thought know that I and many Christians will not pass judgement on you. We will encourage and provide guidance to the best of our teachings, but we will never judge you.

Sure thing.

[Benton]

(12-26-2019, 09:10 PM)GMDino Wrote: Dude it was closed for Christmas. 

We typically close the forum for travel holidays as there's less mod activity (and generally less poster activity). That's a big part of the weekend closure.

We used to post that, but as there's only a few regular posters in this forum., It didn't seem necessary.

[GMDino]

(12-26-2019, 11:21 PM)Benton Wrote: We typically close the forum for travel holidays as there's less mod activity (and generally less poster activity). That's a big part of the weekend closure.

We used to post that, but as there's only a few regular posters in this forum., It didn't seem necessary.

Indeed.

(w/o applause  )

[*bfine32*]

(12-26-2019, 09:10 PM)GMDino Wrote: Dude it was closed for Christmas. 

At to judging:  Benton made it perfectly clear that we all judge and and that it is not to condemn but to show now not to act/behave.

Trump claims to be a Christian but acts and talks the exact opposite of a Christian.  Wanna call that "judging" him?  Feel free.  Wanna say that everyone is wrong?  Go ahead.  But to deny Trump's words and deeds (and lack of repentance) is foolishness.

btw, you still never read the article. 

I realize it was closed for Christmas and the time before it was closed for the weekend; of course that doesn't change the propensity to provide a disingenuous response and then immediately close the thread. Sorta like Pelosci saying "I got these impeachment articles, but I'm gonna hold onto them because it's Christmas"


Benton can speak for you when he states we "all"  judge when it comes to stating whether someone is or is not a Christian; he doesn't speak for me and I doubt he speaks for “all”( here's a dictionary look it up it's toward the front) .

I have 0 problem with anyone saying Trump walks in sin. But no, I don't wanna call that "judging" whether or not he's a Christian; you can. Furthermore, you have no idea how often he repents. He just doesn't do it to you. I'm unsure where the "everyone" is wrong assertion comes from. I though an "issue" with you is that many take him at his word that he's a Christian. You can point out “non-Christian” things he does; while other can point to “Christian” things he does. I guess no one is perfect and therefore subject to your judgement.

And you never answered the simple question asked of you before you simply said "read the article". 

WTS, you've got all this "correction" for me but nothing on your favorite Mod continually misquoting. misrepresenting, and outright lying about what I've said. Any reason why or do you not see this happening frequently in this thread?  If one of your Facebook buddies in this forum asked you a question in regards to the article, would your answer be "read the article"?

[Benton]

(12-27-2019, 12:28 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I have 0 problem with anyone saying Trump walks in sin. But no, I don't wanna call that "judging" whether or not he's a Christian; you can.

You can call a fork a trumpet, it's still a fork. If you're talking to someone and saying 'yeaj, that's not really Christian behavior' then you're judging the behavior.

[GMDino]

Coincidentally posted by a pastor friend of mine this morning.

[*bfine32*]

(12-27-2019, 07:38 AM)Benton Wrote: You can call a fork a trumpet, it's still a fork. If you're talking to someone and saying 'yeaj, that's not really Christian behavior' then you're judging the behavior.

Benton Wrote:Sure thing.