Everyone Against Building The Wall- Part 2

[BFritz21]

To everyone against building the wall, are you also against people building walls around their property to keep it from being vandalized or to keep things from being stolen?

You lock your house doors at night and lock your car when you get out of it most places, so how's it different?

Actually, you should be more outraged if someone builds a wall around their property or keeps things locked up because that's just precautionary and hypothetical, whereas the wall is being built to stop things that are ACTUALLY HAPPENING.

[Belsnickel]

1. People building walls/fences around their property is something they choose to do with their funds. It is not a use of public funds being used at the expense of other (underfunded) programs that could benefit the public more.

2. Private walls/fences are often more about privacy than security. Two entirely different situations.

This is the worst attempt I have seen at making this argument.

[*bfine32*]

(12-26-2018, 07:55 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: 1. People building walls/fences around their property is something they choose to do with their funds. It is not a use of public funds being used at the expense of other (underfunded) programs that could benefit the public more.

2. Private walls/fences are often more about privacy than security. Two entirely different situations.

This is the worst attempt I have seen at making this argument.

1. But we voted in a POTUS who one of his main points was the construction of this wall; so we "chose" to do it.

2. But they are often used for security; if not, why have a pass code or lock for the gate?

As to the OP: I don't know why folks even lock their doors or homes. Don't they realize criminals have rocks and can break the windows?

But  Brad's point does bring to mind a personal issue:

I am looking to upgrade where bfine lives because POTUS has been so good to me. One of the places I like is in a gated community (the bane of the liberal). The reason I like it is because it has lake access. But if I want to live there I have to pay a "maintenance fee" for the secure community. 

I would rather them just leave the gate open and save me the maintenance fee, but if I want the other amenities, I have to pay the fee for something I really don't want. 

[Belsnickel]

(12-26-2018, 08:14 PM)bfine32 Wrote: 1. But we voted in a POTUS who one of his main points was the construction of this wall; so we "chose" to do it.

A POTUS who did not receive a majority, or even a plurality of the popular vote. There is no mandate from the voters there for his agenda items such as the wall.

(12-26-2018, 08:14 PM)bfine32 Wrote: 2. But they are often used for security; if not, why have a pass code or lock for the gate?

Because someone being able to walk right in breaks down the privacy of the area within the barrier.

[*bfine32*]

(12-26-2018, 08:19 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: A POTUS who did not receive a majority, or even a plurality of the popular vote. There is no mandate from the voters there for his agenda items such as the wall.


Because someone being able to walk right in breaks down the privacy of the area within the barrier.

Oh, the never getting old popular vote issue. Our current POTUS was duly elected by the American people uses our form of government that has been in place for centuries and one of his promises was to construct a wall; so yes, it was asked for.


Sothe lock is to keep people out that do not rightfully belong in there. Thanks. 

[Belsnickel]

(12-26-2018, 08:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Oh, the never getting old popular vote issue. Our current POTUS was duly elected by the American people uses our form of government that has been in place for centuries and one of his promises was to construct a wall; so yes, it was asked for.

When a POTUS is elected without winning the popular vote, they do not have a mandate backing their policies. This is a commonly understood thing. It has also been backed up with opinion polling since then that indicates the majority of the people in this country do not want a border wall.

[*bfine32*]

(12-26-2018, 08:29 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: When a POTUS is elected without winning the popular vote, they do not have a mandate backing their policies. This is a commonly understood thing. It has also been backed up with opinion polling since then that indicates the majority of the people in this country do not want a border wall.

You are the one using the word mandate; I never did. I simply said it was asked for. 

[Belsnickel]

(12-26-2018, 08:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You are the one using the word mandate; I never did. I simply said it was asked for. 

A mandate means that the position has the backing of the people. In other words, what the people ask for.

[fredtoast]

(12-26-2018, 08:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Oh, the never getting old popular vote issue. Our current POTUS was duly elected by the American people uses our form of government that has been in place for centuries and one of his promises was to construct a wall; so yes, it was asked for.

The promise was for a wall paid for by Mexico.

So he is not producing what he promised at all.  The problem is that Trump supporters don't mind being played by Trump. They don't even seem to know when it is happening. 

[*bfine32*]

(12-26-2018, 08:34 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: A mandate means that the position has the backing of the people. In other words, what the people ask for.

Okey doke. Go with the wall was not asked for by the American public and of course your definition of mandate; I'll consider mandate to be a requirement. 

[fredtoast]

(12-26-2018, 07:45 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: To everyone against building the wall, are you also against people building walls around their property to keep it from being vandalized or to keep things from being stolen?

You lock your house doors at night and lock your car when you get out of it most places, so how's it different?

Actually, you should be more outraged if someone builds a wall around their property or keeps things locked up because that's just precautionary and hypothetical, whereas the wall is being built to stop things that are ACTUALLY HAPPENING.

In order for this to be a proper analogy then all Mexican immigrants would have to be criminals who are stealing from us.  That just is not true.  Many of them work and contribute to our economy.  Years ago we used to recruit them to come to our country and work and some people still claim they are actually a necessary part of out economy.

Why would I build a fence to keep out the guy who works in my garden?

[*bfine32*]

(12-26-2018, 08:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The promise was for a wall paid for by Mexico.

So he is not producing what he promised at all.  The problem is that Trump supporters don't mind being played by Trump. They don't even seem to know when it is happening. 

We've been over how the promise of a wall was made before he threw in the Mexico will pay for it and we've also been over how it can easily be framed to show Mexico is paying for it; but it's like speaking to a wall (ha).

[GMDino]

(12-26-2018, 08:44 PM)bfine32 Wrote: We've been over how the promise of a wall was made before he threw in the Mexico will pay for it and we've also been over how it can easily be framed to show Mexico is paying for it; but it's like speaking to a wall (ha).

Translation: Trump just spouts crap...people believe his crap...people spin to make his crap look polished because they "know" without having to rely on silly things like facts.

[*bfine32*]

(12-26-2018, 08:42 PM)fredtoast Wrote: In order for this to be a proper analogy then all Mexican immigrants would have to be criminals who are stealing from us.  That just is not true.  Many of them work and contribute to our economy.  Years ago we used to recruit them to come to our country and work and some people still claim they are actually a necessary part of out economy.

Why would I build a fence to keep out the guy who works in my garden?

I don't lock my doors because I think everybody that walks by my how is going to try to enter it illegally. It's just for the rare few that may. How about you?

[*bfine32*]

(12-26-2018, 08:46 PM)GMDino Wrote: Translation: Trump just spouts crap...people believe his crap...people spin to make his crap look polished because they "know" without having to rely on silly things like facts.

Or you could just be non-partisan and say:

Translation: Politics. 

[GMDino]

(12-26-2018, 07:45 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: To everyone against building the wall, are you also against people building walls around their property to keep it from being vandalized or to keep things from being stolen?

You lock your house doors at night and lock your car when you get out of it most places, so how's it different?

Actually, you should be more outraged if someone builds a wall around their property or keeps things locked up because that's just precautionary and hypothetical, whereas the wall is being built to stop things that are ACTUALLY HAPPENING.

Except your President has made you afraid of things that are not actually happening by exaggerating (making up) "facts" and claiming you are directly threatened.

Also it's about allocation of funds and what works best.  If walls worked like DJT claimed every country would just build a wall and that would be that.

[GMDino]

(12-26-2018, 08:47 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Or you could just be non-partisan and say:

Translation: Politics. 

Or you could be honest and say you bought Trump's lies hook line and sinker.  

[*bfine32*]

(12-26-2018, 08:48 PM)GMDino Wrote: Or you could be honest and say you bought Trump's lies hook line and sinker.  

or you could also say it's not about me.

I give less than a damn if POTUS builds a wall, but many that voted for him do and he feels he owes it to those that put him in office.


Nah, it's just easier to make it personal. 

[fredtoast]

(12-26-2018, 08:46 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I don't lock my doors because I think everybody that walks by my how is going to try to enter it illegally. It's just for the rare few that may. How about you?

Spending billions on a wall while have the illegal immigrants come here legally is like spending billions on a front door lock while leaving your back door standing open.

[fredtoast]

(12-26-2018, 08:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I give less than a damn if POTUS builds a wall, but many that voted for him do and he feels he owes it to those that put him in office.

He owes it to them to make Mexico pay for it.

That is what he promised.