Florida sixth-grader charged with misdemeanor after refusing to recite Pledge

[GMDino]

Nothing, and I mean NOTHING will help change a child's heart to believe that the US is not a racist country more than verbally attacking him for exercising his freedom and then (after the teacher starts the confrontation rather than ignore it) arresting him and charging him with "resisting arrest 'without violence').

Six grader.

Why teachers pass up actual teaching moments just to reinforce their political beliefs is beyond me.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2019/02/17/florida-sixth-grader-charged-with-misdemeanor-after-refusing-recite-pledge-allegiance/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.6605429e68f4

Quote:A Florida student is facing misdemeanor charges after a confrontation with his teacher that began with his refusal to recite the Pledge of Allegiance and escalated into what officials described as disruptive behavior.



The student, a sixth-grader at Lawton Chiles Middle Academy in Lakeland, Fla., east of Tampa, refused to stand for the pledge, telling the teacher that he thinks the flag and the national anthem are “racist” against black people, according to an affidavit. The teacher then had what appeared to be a contentious exchange with him.


If living in the United States is “so bad,” why not go to another place to live? Ana Alvarez, who was substituting at the school, asked the student, according to a handwritten statement from her.


“They brought me here,” the boy replied.


Alvarez responded by saying, “Well you can always go back, because I came here from Cuba, and the day I feel I’m not welcome here anymore, I would find another place to live.” She then called the district office because she did not want to keep dealing with the student, according to the statement.


Officials said the situation escalated. The student yelled at the dean and a school resource officer who came to the classroom, accused them of being racist and repeatedly refused to leave the room.


[Houston teen says she was expelled for not standing for Pledge of Allegiance]


“Suspend me! I don’t care. This school is racist,” the student, who is black, told the dean as he walked out of the room with his backpack, according to the affidavit.


The student was later charged with disruption of a school facility and resisting an officer without violence.


The Lakeland Police Department said in a news release that the student was not arrested for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegiance.


“This arrest was based on the student’s choice to disrupt the classroom, make threats and resisting the officer’s efforts to leave the classroom,” the release said.

The 11-year-old’s mother, Dhakira Talbot, was not immediately available for comment Sunday, but she told Bay News 9 that the teacher was wrong and that the school overstepped its authority by punishing her son, who was taken to a juvenile detention center and was suspended for three days after the Feb. 4 incident.


“I’m upset, I’m angry. I’m hurt. More so for my son. My son has never been through anything like this. I feel like this should’ve been handled differently. If any disciplinary action should’ve been taken, it should’ve been with the school. He shouldn’t have been arrested,” Talbot told the TV station, adding that she thought the charges should be dropped and that the school should be held accountable for its handling of the situation.


The affidavit stated that the student threatened to beat the teacher, but Talbot told Bay News 9 that her son did no such thing.

[A black student refused to recite the Pledge of Allegiance — challenging Texas law requiring it]


Polk County Public Schools spokesman Kyle Kennedy did not respond to requests for comment Sunday. He told the Ledger that students are not required to participate in the pledge. In fact, the Supreme 
Court ruled in 1943 in West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette that schools cannot require students to salute the flag or recite the pledge, citing First Amendment rights.


But Alvarez was not aware that the school does not require students to recite the pledge, the Ledger reported. Kennedy added that officials will look at improving training for substitute teachers and that Alvarez no longer works in the district.


The Pledge of Allegiance and the national anthem have been sources of tension after critics, including President Trump, denounced former San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick for taking a knee during the anthem, an act to protest racial injustice and police brutality. But many followed Kaepernick’s lead and defended his right to free speech and to protest.

In 2017, a black student was expelled from her Houston high school for refusing to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance. India Landry’s silent protest prompted a long legal battle in federal court, with the teen’s family accusing the school of violating her free-speech rights. Last year, the Texas attorney general intervened and defended a state law requiring students to recite the pledge.

And what better way to create love of country that forced daily pledges?  Sick people.

[*michaelsean*]

One sick person who didn't know the rules, and then a giant over-reaction by some other adults probably based on some zero-tolerance policy.

I'll take a wild guess and say the substitute teacher is most likely Catholic, and if she came here when a child she absolutely had to stand and recite the pledge if she went to a Catholic School, and just assumed it was the same in every school. Or she came here two years ago, and I'm completely wrong.

Edit: Crap I left out a whole part. I can say maybe honest mistake on the teacher at the beginning, but the things she said after were way over the line. I know some immigrants can be super-patriotic, but that was too much.

[Au165]

There is something wrong with this country when a child can be arrested for anything short of a violent crime. Even that has to be pretty egregious in my mind.

[fredtoast]

Bad decisions on both sides.

Nothing wrong with refusing to say the pledge, but the teacher was stupid and so was the student if he really did respond by becoming violent or disruptive. He needs to learn CIVIL disobedience.

[Au165]

(02-18-2019, 10:54 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Bad decisions on both sides.

Nothing wrong with refusing to say the pledge, but the teacher was stupid and so was the student if he really did respond by becoming violent or disruptive.  He needs to learn CIVIL disobedience.

He wasn't violent, hence why he was charged with resisting arrest without violence. He was upset and threw a temper tantrum, not sure when we decided to start arresting kids for that.

[Benton]

Bout time. Kids are too soft these days. Can't spank them, can't have them arrested for exercising their Constitutional rights.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-18-2019, 10:56 AM)Au165 Wrote: He wasn't violent, hence why he was charged with resisting arrest without violence. He was upset and threw a temper tantrum, not sure when we decided to start arresting kids for that.

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

Quote:“This arrest was based on the student’s choice to disrupt the classroom, make threats and resisting the officer’s efforts to leave the classroom,” the release said.

I think "make threats" was the key point there.

Quote:The affidavit stated that the student threatened to beat the teacher, but Talbot told Bay News 9 that her son did no such thing.

[GMDino]

(02-18-2019, 12:23 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I think "make threats" was the key point there.

I think adults need to adult and not tell 11 year old kids to "move" if they chose to not say the pledge.  That way things don't get escalated to where the police have to be called and an 11 year old is arrested for "resisting arrest".

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-18-2019, 12:29 PM)GMDino Wrote: I think adults need to adult and not tell 11 year old kids to "move" if they chose to not say the pledge.  That way things don't get escalated to where the police have to be called and an 11 year old is arrested for "resisting arrest".

Where did I say that the adult handled it well? Less expectation on a substitute's ability and training to handle children, but their effort here still doesn't seem to pass even that lowered standard.

I just said that while he wasn't violent, he threatened violence.



(Adults need to also adult and not teach their children that the response for everything is to call people racist and threaten to beat them up.)

[*bfine32*]

I think we need to know what type of hat the kid was wearing before we decide if the onus of responsibility goes on the adult or the child.

[GMDino]

(02-18-2019, 12:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think we need to know what type of hat the kid was wearing before we decide if the onus of responsibility goes on the adult or the child.

Couldn't have been a hoodie or he just would have been shot.  

"11 year old"

[GMDino]

(02-18-2019, 12:36 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Where did I say that the adult handled it well? Less expectation on a substitute's ability and training to handle children, but their effort here still doesn't seem to pass even that lowered standard.

I just said that while he wasn't violent, he threatened violence.



(Adults need to also adult and not teach their children that the response for everything is to call people racist and threaten to beat them up.)

You didn't...I was just following up on your response by reinforcing that he has been accused of threatening...but maybe it doesn't reach that point if the adult adults better.

I can't think of a single time that someone said they were "threatened" and it turned out they were not.  

[Au165]

(02-18-2019, 12:23 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I think "make threats" was the key point there.

Considering he wasn't charged with making threats (assault) I have to question how seriously they took those threats to begin with. Based on the current school safety climate we are in that would have been the most appropriate thing to charge him with in all of this. Because they didn't it make me think the "threats" weren't all that credible or easily explained away by an emotional reaction and not worth pursing a charge. 

[*bfine32*]

OK here we go:

I saw nothing to suggest he was forced to stand for the anthem and/or his refusal to do so was the reason for his detention.

It appears the substitute teacher was out of his/her depth and failed at trying to make a point. She realized this albeit it too late and called for assistance. My guess is the child felt humiliated and spoke out.

He is just a child and most likely knows as much about social injustice as he does sacrifice for the Nation. The teacher should have just ignored him and cited the Anthem with those that chose to stand. All that was accomplished is that this kid now feels more like a victim.

But once the kid made threats he had to be removed and detained for his safety and that of the other children

[*bfine32*]

I'd also like to take this opportunity to give a shout out and thanks to Pat and the other educators who get it right about 99.9% of the time.

[*michaelsean*]

(02-18-2019, 01:02 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'd also like to take this opportunity to give a shout out and thanks to Pat and the other educators who get it right about 99.9% of the time.

He makes them all dress up like Grimace on the Friday before games.  I don't think that's exactly "getting it right".

[Belsnickel]

I'm wanting to learn more about the context of the supposed threat before making a judgment call on this whole thing.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

Insanely misleading thread title.


First, the teacher should have just ignored the kid. Second the kid should have left the room when instructed to. You can always tell a kid who's had little to no structure and consequences in the home because the minute the get either they lose their mind. It's why teachers have so many problems with kids like this, if the kid has no rules at home then the first person in their entire life trying to get them to abide by any is the teacher. As a kid you think, "who is this person to tell me what to do", when you grow up without any rules at home.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-18-2019, 12:44 PM)GMDino Wrote: Couldn't have been a hoodie or he just would have been shot.  

"11 year old"

Why do far left types seem unable to avoid race baiting? 

[Au165]

(02-18-2019, 01:50 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Insanely misleading thread title.


First, the teacher should have just ignored the kid.  Second the kid should have left the room when instructed to.  You can always tell a kid who's had little to no structure and consequences in the home because the minute the get either they lose their mind.  It's why teachers have so many problems with kids like this, if the kid has no rules at home then the first person in their entire life trying to get them to abide by any is the teacher.  As a kid you think, "who is this person to tell me what to do", when you grow up without any rules at home.

Back in the day he was sent to the office and got some sort of punishment. I think most people have issue with it escalating to having him arrested. Not sure anyone has issue with him talking back to the teacher. Obviously the teacher shouldn't have instigated a verbal showdown but in the end those things happen and you let the administration handle it.