For those against the Death Penalty

[Benton]

(04-19-2019, 08:05 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Smiley dude's head exploding aside: The better solution would be to improve the system. 

People aren't perfect, so, unfortunately, there will never be a perfect system.

Quote:But I cannot grasp the concept of: "There's a chance we are wrong, so let's just support life in prison"

Life in prison for an innocent person ain't great, but two things. First, they're alive. Thirdly, it creates an opportunity to correct an error. The death penalty... well, it's hard to fix that mistake. 

Personally, I cannot grasp the concept of: "There's a chance we are wrong, so let's just kill 'em."

[*bfine32*]

(04-19-2019, 08:41 PM)Benton Wrote: People aren't perfect, so, unfortunately, there will never be a perfect system.


Life in prison for an innocent person ain't great, but two things. First, they're alive. Thirdly, it creates an opportunity to correct an error. The death penalty... well, it's hard to fix that mistake. 

Personally, I cannot grasp the concept of: "There's a chance we are wrong, so let's just kill 'em."

You forgot to quote the part that stated those on death row are given more chances at appeal and re-look at data. 

I suppose you can look in the mirror and say "I'm on the right side because I support life in prison over death penalty", but it's no different.

Let me ask you which do you think happens more:

An innocent person is executed or an inmate that commits a crime such as murder, kills someone in prison? Hell some of them killed might be innocent or have committed a lesser crime.

[Benton]

(04-19-2019, 09:01 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You forgot to quote the part that stated those on death row are given more chances at appeal and re-look at data. 

You can give a guy 100 chance to take another look. Largely it won't matter. Time does, though. Both in terms of new technology and in terms of distance from reaction.

Quote:I suppose you can look in the mirror and say "I'm on the right side because I support life in prison over death penalty", but it's no different.

Well, aside from one being alive and one being dead. But, yeah, completely the same?

Quote:Let me ask you which do you think happens more:


An innocent person is executed or an inmate that commits a crime such as murder, kills someone in prison? Hell some of them killed might be innocent or have committed a lesser crime.

I don't know, and that's just a distraction. If you want to get into all the foibles and errors a prison can make, I'm not interested. The idea that it's better to kill potentially innocent people than to let them spend years in prison hoping for a correction is beyond absurd.

[*bfine32*]

(04-19-2019, 09:18 PM)Benton Wrote: You can give a guy 100 chance to take another look. Largely it won't matter. Time does, though. Both in terms of new technology and in terms of distance from reaction.

Well, aside from one being alive and one being dead. But, yeah, completely the same?

I don't know, and that's just a distraction. If you want to get into all the foibles and errors a prison can make, I'm not interested. The idea that it's better to kill potentially innocent people than to let them spend years in prison hoping for a correction is beyond absurd.

So time matters if no one re-looks the case..

Of course it's the same.

You can call it a distraction all you want and choose not to answer all you want (it is why I asked "what do you think", you don't have thoughts on the matter?), but the person the murderer killed in prison is dead and the killer is alive and in your opinion he should be allowed to remain alive and kill again. 

[GMDino]

I've always had a problem with the death penalty for all the reasons already stated...with the caveat that there are extreme cases where there is no doubt and the crime is so horrific that the ending of that life would be justified.

I don't know if this case reaches that level with the information I have right now.

[BmorePat87]

I'd likely have to have a close friend or family member get murdered in order for my emotions to overtake the logic that drives my opposition of the death penalty.

Hopefully that never happens, but if it did, I hope I am able to prevent my emotions from clouding my judgement.

[fredtoast]

(04-19-2019, 09:23 PM)bfine32 Wrote:  in your opinion he should be allowed to remain alive and kill again. 

Link to anyone saying he should be allowed to kill again

The reason he killed again was that the prison staff failed to do their job.  So you have to be in favor of executing them also, right?   

[*bfine32*]

(04-22-2019, 11:43 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Link to anyone saying he should be allowed to kill again

The reason he killed again was that the prison staff failed to do their job.  So you have to be in favor of executing them also, right?   

Do you accuse the prison staff of not doing their job every time there's a killing in a prison? 

[*bfine32*]

(04-22-2019, 10:55 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I'd likely have to have a close friend or family member get murdered in order for my emotions to overtake the logic that drives my opposition of the death penalty.

Hopefully that never happens, but if it did, I hope I am able to prevent my emotions from clouding my judgement.

I suppose I'm a little more empathetic toward families of victims. I feel the same amount of quilt of a person getting executed as others do about a convicted person of a capitol crime, killing another in prison. Only in my stance the one killed had every opportunity to prove he did not deserve to did.

[fredtoast]

(04-22-2019, 11:51 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Do you accuse the prison staff of not doing their job every time there's a killing in a prison? 

Yes.  It is their job to make sure no one gets killed in prison.

[*bfine32*]

(04-22-2019, 11:54 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes.  It is their job to make sure no one gets killed in prison.

I assume you also blame LEOs every time someone is murdered. 

I thought the prison's staff was responsible for incarceration. Of course part of it is to safeguard, but they cannot be everywhere all the time.

Now if they standby and watch a murder, then they are not doing their job

[fredtoast]

(04-22-2019, 11:53 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I suppose I'm a little more empathetic toward families of victims. 

No.  You just have more bloodlust.

There are many families of victims who oppose the death penalty.  So you are not able to empathize with them at all.  As usual you just try to use them to support your own position.


BTW what if the guy that got killed in prison was also a convicted killer?  Then you'd be happy about him being killed, right?  The killer would be on your side then.

[fredtoast]

(04-22-2019, 11:56 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I assume you also blame LEOs every time someone is murdered. 

Yes, if the person killed is in their custody like prisoners are.

[fredtoast]

(04-22-2019, 11:56 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Now if they standby and watch a murder, then they are not doing their job

Yes they are.

What is the job of a person called a "guard"?

[*bfine32*]

(04-22-2019, 12:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No.  You just have more bloodlust.

There are many families of victims who oppose the death penalty.  So you are not able to empathize with them at all.  As usual you just try to use them to support your own position.


BTW what if the guy that got killed in prison was also a convicted killer?  Then you'd be happy about him being killed, right?  The killer would be on your side then.

Slurring me aside.

My point of empathy was directed to Pat as he said it could be the only possibly change his stance was if he had a close family member killed. I've spoken with families that have been attacked and their children mutilated and killed for walking to school. 

Pat was the one that brought up changing his stance might only happen if it happened to him, No where did I state all families of victims are pro-death penalty. That was you just bringing up a strawman that you could use to further slur someone. 

[*bfine32*]

(04-22-2019, 12:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes, if the person killed is in their custody like prisoners are.

All American Citizens are under the jurisdiction and protection of LEOs

[*bfine32*]

(04-22-2019, 12:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes they are.

What is the job of a person called a "guard"?

uuuuuuhhhhhmmmm......to safeguard? I think I said that. I also said they cannot be omnipresent. 

[fredtoast]

(04-22-2019, 12:05 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Slurring me aside.

"Bloodlust" just means you want to kill people.  Don't know why you are taking that as a slur when you are here advocating killing people.

[fredtoast]

(04-22-2019, 12:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote: All American Citizens are under the jurisdiction and protection of LEOs

But we are not in their custody.

Learn to read.

[*bfine32*]

(04-22-2019, 12:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: "Bloodlust" just means you want to kill people.  Don't know why you are taking that as a slur when you are here advocating killing people.

I "want" to kill no one; nor would I be "happy" with anyone getting killed in prison. Admittedly I didn't shed many tears over Dahmer getting killed while serving one of his 16 life sentences, but even he, I would have preferred to see given an humane execution instead of beaten to death with metal roods.