For those that Ha ha'd

[Benton]

(11-23-2018, 11:12 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Oh, I have 0 doubt that you blame the Right for the Left's treatment of FLOTUS, 

Who said the left? I think she receives an equal amount of disdain from both sides.

The difference is, she — more than most — has access to one of the leading causes of discord.

[hollodero]

(11-24-2018, 12:04 AM)bfine32 Wrote: As I said, you consider yourself judge, and have your opinion. 

Again why should it matter which is "worse" unless your intent is to mitigate the comments made toward the other? What "you" think is worse is irrelevant to those being slurred. 

It's not irrelevant in a discussion that doesn't involve her personally. In an extreme example, a woman could claim someone not liking her handbag behaved just as bad as if she were black and someone insulted her racially. Because she could claim her handbag is really important to her and her level of distress is just as high as if she was called a racial slur. That's where your line of reasoning could lead to.

And sure, in that case I am presumptuous enough to say, no way - one thing is just worse than the other, no matter how the insulted feels about it. Comments about a dress are less bad than comments about color. Doesn't mean everything that is said that just isn't as bad as a racial slur is ok - it most certainly isn't. I'm with you on that one anyway. It's not my intention to "mitigate" or give anyone insulting Melania a pass.

[And I know Melania faced worse than comments about a handbag. I just try to make my point clear.]

[*bfine32*]

(11-24-2018, 12:21 AM)hollodero Wrote: It's not irrelevant in a discussion that doesn't involve her personally. In an extreme example, a woman could claim someone not liking her handbag behaved just as bad as if she were black and someone insulted her racially. Because she could claim her handbag is really important to her and her level of distress is just as high as if she was called a racial slur. That's where your line of reasoning could lead to.

And sure, in that case I am presumptuous enough to say, no way - one thing is just worse than the other, no matter how the insulted feels about it. Comments about a dress are less bad than comments about color. Doesn't mean everything that is said that just isn't as bad as a racial slur is ok - it most certainly isn't. I'm with you on that one anyway. It's not my intention to "mitigate" or give anyone insulting Melania a pass.

[And I know Melania faced worse than comments about a handbag. I just try to make my point clear.]

You're still doing it; regardless of trying to make your point clear. You're only pointing to comments about her attire in an attempt to mitigate what is said about her. I presented a number of examples where she tried to do good and folks told her to "shut up". How would that make you feel. Would that make you feel worse than someone calling you a cracker?

Of course the race card trumps everything else on here. They have insulted/questioned her citizen status. Does citizenship Trump race? Remember when Obama was not one?

[*bfine32*]

(11-24-2018, 12:21 AM)Benton Wrote: Who said the left? I think she receives an equal amount of disdain from both sides.

The difference is, she — more than most — has access to one of the leading causes of discord.

Oh, allow me to rephrase:

I have 0 doubt that you blame the Right for everyone's maltreatment of FLOTUS. 

[hollodero]

(11-24-2018, 12:29 AM)bfine32 Wrote: You're still doing it; regardless of trying to make your point clear. You're only pointing to comments about her attire in an attempt to mitigate what is said about her.

As I said, I used comments about attire as an extreme example. My intention was not to reflect reality. I believe she faced "worse" that that.
Which is kind of the point. Some insults are worse than others. Telling her she's dumb (or should "shut up") is worse than going after handbags too, which is your point, not mine - but I agree. And a racial slur is even worse that that.

(11-24-2018, 12:29 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I presented a number of examples where she tried to do good and folks told her to "shut up". How would that make you feel.

Bad, probably. I'm not trying to belittle that.

(11-24-2018, 12:29 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Would that make you feel worse than someone calling you a cracker?

Possibly - but that example isn't too good. I'm the majority race, I do not face insults about that, and racism towards me never was an issue I had to deal with.
So I can only speculate... but if I were black and someone called me the n word, I'd probably consider that worse as someone telling me to shut up because I have no idea.

(11-24-2018, 12:29 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course the race card trumps everything else on here. They have insulted/questioned her citizen status. Does citizenship Trump race? Remember when Trump was not one?

I think racist comments are worse, yes. On the grounds that I think racist insults are worse than all kinds of other insults. Calling a black man something with n is worse than calling a black or any man dumb or ill-suited to talk or anything. I'm curious in why that's even an issue.
Also, you can't go quite as far as to say "the left" went after her citizenship status. That only was brought up because of Trump's extreme hard line against family reunions and such. And that's not completely without merit.

[GMDino]

(11-23-2018, 11:48 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course that's your opinion.

She tried to start an initiative directed against cyberbullying and the Left told her to "shut up" you know nothing about it.

She tried to start an initiative with the Queen of Spain about save the children and the Left told her to "shut up" you have no right.

She tried to share a Thanksgiving message with the Troops and the Left told her to "shut up" because...

I could go on about the hate surrounding trip to Africa, visiting children along the border, ect... but why bother

Is that as bad as one/two dudes making ignorant racist comments? You tell me, with your perspective, because I'm not the judge. 

Just two quick asides:  I don't know of anyone who told her to "shut up" about cyber bullying because she "knows nothing about it."

But there were plenty of people who got quite the chuckle out of Donald Trump's wife saying we should be nicer online when her husband is one of the worst about it.  And continues to be.

And secondly you did get something right there:  It's an opinion.  You have one too.  Not based n any real facts or data just your bias and what you "feel" is going on.

But I didn't want to deflect from you accusing "the left" of picking on the FLOTUS, and your "examples" (with no examples) about it.

Carry on.

[BmorePat87]

(11-22-2018, 05:25 PM)bfine32 Wrote: And this is a huge issue we have with our society.

You as an outsider get to determine the effect the bullying has on the target. In her mind FLOTUS may feel she is the most bullied person in the world (I would venture to say she's among the most often bullied). But the onlooker gets to say "You're not that bullied. look at this". 

I'm sure that many of those that bully do not see there actions as bad as the bullied do. Luckily we have referees in society to explain impact. 

What gives you or anyone the right to tell FLOTUS the level of her bullying?

Your response is why your thread is flawed. At no point did I discredit the effect that bullying had on her, I only commented on the frequency and scale/scope of attacks on her compared to others. 

YOU repeated the claim that she was the MOST or ONE OF THE MOST bullied persons in the whole world. As has been demonstrated, other people are targeted and attacked both more frequently and more intensely. 

If you want to make a new thread and say she reacts the MOST to her bullying, go ahead, because at this point that's what you're trying to argue. Just don't throw around this horse shit about me discrediting the effect that bullying has on her because you made a dumb thread.

[fredtoast]

(11-23-2018, 09:55 PM)bfine32 Wrote: In the past year: Yes

In their history: No

Not sure that it matters. 

You believe that Melania has been bullied more in the last 2 years than Hillary has in the last 27?

Only the blindest of the Trump worshipers would compare being called a murderer and traitor for decades to having someone say your coat is ugly for one day.

[*bfine32*]

(11-26-2018, 12:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You believe that Melania has been bullied more in the last 2 years than Hillary has in the last 27?

Only the blindest of the Trump worshipers would compare being called a murderer and traitor for decades to having someone say your coat is ugly for one day.

I suppose you could not make out the second line in my post where I stated Hillary had been bullied more in the past 27. I called it history. So perhaps one of us is blind.

[*bfine32*]

Can't even decorate the WH without getting slammed:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/28/is-melania-trump-sending-us-a-message-through-her-creepy-christmas-trees

Quote:Possibly, as has been suggested already, she is trying to separate us from nature, with trees the colour no tree has ever been lined up in a harsh, firing-squad formation. That would work thematically with last year – lots of uplit dead twigs, very much a winter-is-coming moment, in the Game of Thrones unkillable zombie sense, not the jingle bells one. I remain open to the possibility.

[GMDino]

(11-28-2018, 05:09 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Can't even decorate the WH without getting slammed:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/28/is-melania-trump-sending-us-a-message-through-her-creepy-christmas-trees

Just part of the "War on Christmas".

I'm sure she frets all night about some random strangers that don't like her decorating style.

[BmorePat87]

(11-28-2018, 05:09 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Can't even decorate the WH without getting slammed:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/28/is-melania-trump-sending-us-a-message-through-her-creepy-christmas-trees

I can't tell if you're sincere or if you're just trolling your own dumb ass thread.

[Dill]

(11-28-2018, 07:11 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I can't tell if you're sincere or if you're just trolling your own dumb ass thread.

Pretty sure he is sincere. The absence of balance or perspective makes the concern for Melania seem disingenuous, but I think it is real.  

[*bfine32*]

(11-28-2018, 07:11 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I can't tell if you're sincere or if you're just trolling your own dumb ass thread.

It being a "dumb ass" thread is your opinion and I look forward to you pointing out more dumb ass threads. Seems like you're emotional.

I am being sincere. FLOTUS said she could argue she's the most bullied person in the US and it has merit. Every thing she does is criticized by members of the Left. 

Of course it may or may not affect her negatively, but when we have referees like you stating "it's not that bad", then they most likely are not affected by it. 

[*bfine32*]

(11-28-2018, 07:17 PM)Dill Wrote: Pretty sure he is sincere. The absence of balance or perspective makes the concern for Melania seem disingenuous, but I think it is real.  

Death by 1000 cuts still results in death. 

[Dill]

(11-28-2018, 07:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Death by 1000 cuts still results in death. 

I suppose, but we don't want to confuse an ancient Chinese torture with a self-inflicted paper cut--which rarely results in death.

[*bfine32*]

(11-28-2018, 07:55 PM)Dill Wrote: I suppose, but we don't want to confuse an ancient Chinese torture with a self-inflicted paper cut--which rarely results in death.

And I don't want me to be confused with someone who overlooks, or worse yet excuses, constant cyber ridicule/bullying.

IMO POTUS is fair game, but his family is not, unless they do a little more than display Christmas Trees. 

[Dill]

(11-28-2018, 07:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: And I don't want me to be confused with someone who overlooks, or worse yet excuses, constant cyber ridicule/bullying.

IMO POTUS is fair game, but his family is not, unless they do a little more than display Christmas Trees. 

Well, I agree with you on that, mostly, especially regarding children.

Regarding spouses, I do think there is more leeway. E.g. when Hillary set to working reworking healthcare policy, she became a legitimate target of press scrutiny and accountable for policy choices. When melania chooses to champion anti-bullying, it is fine to publicly wonder about the tone-deafness of her endeavor.

Also, if she gets an important NSC staff member "relocated" via a public tweet, that is a concern.

[GMDino]

She's the First Lady.  A very high profile and media intensive position.  She's also an adult.

If she doesn't want any criticism of anything she can do nothing.

Frankly I think you are naive to think that the internet, filled with people who think their opinions are right, doesn't have more than a few with opinions on red Christmas trees.

And you use that to keep trying to convince others that Melania is "the most bullied" when, at worst, she is maybe the most commented on.

She was a model.  Her "sense of style" has probably been talked about for years...this isn't new.  What's new is the conservative warriors stepping up to protect her from anything evenly remotely critical.

It's amusing...but it's getting old.  Much like the boy who cried "wolf.

[fredtoast]

(11-28-2018, 07:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: And I don't want me to be confused with someone who overlooks, or worse yet excuses, constant cyber ridicule/bullying.

IMO POTUS is fair game, but his family is not, unless they do a little more than display Christmas Trees. 

Except every famous person on earth is treated the same way.  A star wears a dress to an awards ceremony.  Her fans love the dress, and people that don't like her call it garbage.

At the same time some people criticize Melania's Christmas decorations her followers praise them.  

None of this compares to media outlets attacking her constantly like Hillary still has to put up with.