Good Night Irene

[GMDino]

(06-17-2019, 04:27 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Yeah, to me it just seems kind of silly. "I'm going to support this country and play for it, but I'm also going to condemn it".

Although I don't agree with Professional players kneeling I feel they have the right, but I'm not sure the same holds true for those that play for the Red, White, and Blue.

I recently watched a story on the Syrian Men's team that makes all this look petty.

Why can it not be considered that Rapione is speaking AGAINST Patriots and Hickle is speaking FOR Religious Freedoms? 

No sillier than being a sport fan and saying the team needs to make changes.

Or being a parent and loving your children but telling them when you think they are making mistakes with their lives.

And, again, if someone is speaking for something that oppresses another group I find that worse than someone speaking for the group being oppressed.

Saying gays should be equal is not the same as saying you can't believe your religion.  Just that your religion doesn't supercede the rights of your fellow citizens.

Not saying it's an easy comparison.  

[*bfine32*]

(06-17-2019, 04:35 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Just a different point of view. In the minds of many, the ultimate form of patriotism is questioning your government.

I have no problem with anyone questioning their Government.

[fredtoast]

(06-17-2019, 04:01 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Always good to get varying opinions. I find it to be hypocritical of her as she benefits (endorsements) from being on the National Team; yet she kneels for oppression. If you feel that strongly about your country and its oppression why represent it? 

Because when you REALLY support something you want it to be the best it can be.  Turning a blind eye to a problem and claiming it does not exist is the WORST thing you can do to something you claim to support.  That is what I call "The cowards way out".

Our current President spent his entire campaign talking about how shitty the US was and how he was the man to fix it.  Now that he is President and goes to foreign countries he talks about the problems in the United States.  If he feels there are problems with the UNited States then why should he represent it?

[Belsnickel]

(06-17-2019, 04:42 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I have no problem with anyone questioning their Government.

Well, that's what the protests are all about, or at least what they started as. Protesting policies and actions from government entities and personnel that were disproportionately affecting minorities in a negative way.

[*bfine32*]

(06-17-2019, 04:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Because when you REALLY support something you want it to be the best it can be.  Turning a blind eye to a problem and claiming it does not exist is the WORST thing you can do to something you claim to support.  That is what I call "The cowards way out".

Our current President spent his entire campaign talking about how shitty the US was and how he was the man to fix it.  Now that he is President and goes to foreign countries he talks about the problems in the United States.  If he feels there are problems with the UNited States then why should he represent it?

But she doesn't REALLY support it enough to refuse to represent her country and gain from notoriety representing her country gives her.

[fredtoast]

(06-17-2019, 04:01 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Also I don't require folks giving the same support to Jaelene Hickle when she refused to wear the gay pride jersey the team wore. Matter of fact she got quite a bit of hate for it and was black-balled from the team.

Rapino got so much hate for kneeling that they changed the rules and forced her to stand.

Jaelene Hickle opposed equal protection under the law for homosexuals (gay marriage), and was black balled because the majority of the team and sponsors do not support discrimination based on religious beliefs.

[*bfine32*]

(06-17-2019, 02:30 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Good timing if she was thinking about the black family in Arizona who was held at gunpoint because their toddler took a doll from the dollar store. 

I still disagree with it though. And even though I don't know who this lady is. I now have a lower opinion of her. 

I must say i'm surprised that this and the Costco shooting hasn't gotten more traffic here

[fredtoast]

(06-17-2019, 04:48 PM)bfine32 Wrote: But she doesn't REALLY support it enough to refuse to represent her country and gain from notoriety representing her country gives her.

Why should she?

Here is what you do not understand.  And I assume it has a lot to do with your military indoctrination.  But it is possible to LOVE something and still see flaws that need to be corrected.  You seem to think that anyone who sees any flaw in our government or social system should either ignore it or completely abandon the country.  That is just crazy.

[*bfine32*]

(06-17-2019, 04:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Rapino got so much hate for kneeling that they changed the rules and forced her to stand.

Jaelene Hickle opposed equal protection under the law for homosexuals (gay marriage), and was black balled because the majority of the team and sponsors do not support discrimination.

So she stands now because she REALLY supports the cause.

Jaelene Hickle just refused to wear a jersey and her religious rights were violated because of it.

[*bfine32*]

(06-17-2019, 04:53 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Why should she?

Here is what you do not understand.  And I assume it has a lot to do with your military indoctrination.  But it is possible to LOVE something and still see flaws that need to be corrected.  You seem to think that anyone who sees any flaw in our government or social system should either ignore it or completely abandon the country.  That is just crazy.

Nope, that's why i said she should have the right to do it in her professional career. IMO it's hypocrisy

[fredtoast]

(06-17-2019, 04:27 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why can it not be considered that Rapione is speaking AGAINST Patriots and Hickle is speaking FOR Religious Freedoms? 

Because Rapino has never said a bad word about patriots and does not oppose patriots.  People who refuse to acknowledge any faults with our country are not real patriots.

And Hickle opposed equal protection under the law for homosexuals, so she was supporting discrimination instead of freedom.  The jersey issue was not about gay marriage, but she had made it clear that she opposed it.

[Belsnickel]

(06-17-2019, 04:54 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So she stands now because she REALLY supports the cause.

Jaelene Hickle just refused to wear a jersey and her religious rights were violated because of it.

In what way? The only negative action taken against her was fans booing her. She still has the same job she had before and was, in fact, called up the next year for the USWNT after she had withdrawn herself the previous year and made the comments about why.

[fredtoast]

(06-17-2019, 04:56 PM)bfine32 Wrote:  IMO it's hypocrisy

In your opinion was it hypocrisy for someone to call himself a "patriot" and run for President claiming the United States had lots of problems?

Is it hypocrisy for a man to accept the position  of President of the United States and still criticize anything about the country?

To me Rapino represents the United States better than any other athlete on the world stage.  She highlights our freedom of speech and expression.

[GMDino]

(06-17-2019, 04:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I must say i'm surprised that this and the Costco shooting hasn't gotten more traffic here

I shared it in the Bad Boys thread...along with the officer's lying about what happened.

[*bfine32*]

(06-17-2019, 05:01 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: In what way? The only negative action taken against her was fans booing her. She still has the same job she had before and was, in fact, called up the next year for the USWNT after she had withdrawn herself the previous year and made the comments about why.

She could not represent her country in the Olympics because she refused to wear the jersey.

[fredtoast]

(06-17-2019, 04:54 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Jaelene Hickle just refused to wear a jersey and her religious rights were violated because of it.

Jaelene opposed equal protection under the law for homosexuals.  There is no "right" to discriminate based on religion in the United States.

[*bfine32*]

(06-17-2019, 05:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: In your opinion was it hypocrisy for someone to call himself a "patriot" and run for President claiming the United States had lots of problems?

Is it hypocrisy for a man to accept the position  of President of the United States and still criticize anything about the country?

To me Rapino represents the United States better than any other athlete on the world stage.  She highlights our freedom of speech and expression.

Of course Trump is a hypocrite. I don't know how the focus turned to him, but whaev.

And to me she's a hypocrite. Different strokes for different folks.

[Belsnickel]

(06-17-2019, 05:05 PM)bfine32 Wrote: She could not represent her country in the Olympics because she refused to wear the jersey.

What? That's not at all what happened.

[*bfine32*]

(06-17-2019, 05:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Jaelene opposed equal protection under the law for homosexuals.  There is no "right" to discriminate based on religion in the United States.

Hell, a lot may oppose SSM; she just REALLY cared about it and did not discriminate against anyone.

Seems she would represent the United States better than any other athlete on the world stage in your opinion.  But I doubt she does.

[fredtoast]

(06-17-2019, 05:08 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course Trump is a hypocrite. I don't know how the focus turned to him, but whaev.

You are right.  Forget about Trump.  What about ANY president who says the United States has problems that need to be fixed?