Has Trump Gone Too Far?

[*bfine32*]

(08-12-2016, 01:37 AM)Benton Wrote: sure I did. It just doesn't fit with the anti-Obama narrative.

Okey Dokey.

[Rotobeast]

(08-11-2016, 11:12 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: The rumor mill is claiming that is how ISIS began?

No, just what involvement Obama/Clinton supposedly had with them.

The only way I see it even remotely having the possibility of any truth would be that a group of Libyan rebels said "hey, let's keep kicking ass" and joined up with ISIS. This is where my thought of the inadvertent support came in, as we helped in the overthrow of Ghaddafi.
It wouldn't be the first time someone we supported came back and bit us in the ass.
Regardless.... all speculation and hearsay.


Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

[GMDino]

(08-12-2016, 05:44 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: No, just what involvement Obama/Clinton supposedly had with them.

The only way I see it even remotely having the possibility of any truth would be that a group of Libyan rebels said "hey, let's keep kicking ass" and joined up with ISIS. This is where my thought of the inadvertent support came in, as we helped in the overthrow of Ghaddafi.
It wouldn't be the first time someone we supported came back and bit us in the ass.
Regardless.... all speculation and hearsay.


Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

Never mind folks!  Turns out none of "us" get sarcasm:

[Au165]

(08-12-2016, 09:14 AM)GMDino Wrote: Never mind folks!  Turns out none of "us" get sarcasm:

Except during the interview the guy even said" So I think what your actually saying is they aren't the founder, but they created the power vacuum that lead to it". His response was nope, they founded it. The guy tried to give him an out, but he wouldn't take it saying he disagrees and means what he said.

[GMDino]

(08-12-2016, 09:22 AM)Au165 Wrote: Except during the interview the guy even said" So I think what your actually saying is they aren't the founder, but they created the power vacuum that lead to it". His response was nope, they founded it. The guy tried to give him an out, but he wouldn't take it saying he disagrees and means what he said.

Nope...that's our fault too!

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-12-2016, 09:25 AM)GMDino Wrote: Nope...that's our fault too!

Hell, Donald can't figure out Donald because he is on record with diametrically opposed stances on the same issues. He is for and against universal healthcare. He is for and against immigration reform. He is for and against gun control and on and on. This means that a large portion of undecided voters can't figure you out, either. Which is why he will lose. He should try just being honest with us instead of treating the election as a reality TV show. I want a President. Not The Jersey Shore. 

[GMDino]

(08-12-2016, 09:53 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Hell, Donald can't figure out Donald because he is on record with diametrically opposed stances on the same issues. He is for and against universal healthcare. He is for and against immigration reform. He is for and against gun control and on and on. This means that a large portion of undecided voters can't figure you out, either. Which is why he will lose. He should try just being honest with us instead of treating the election as a reality TV show. I want a President. Not The Jersey Shore. 

Yes, but his supporters love him because he says exactly what he means! 

[Rotobeast]

(08-12-2016, 09:14 AM)GMDino Wrote: Never mind folks!  Turns out none of "us" get sarcasm:

Wow..... what a stooge.
He's throwing this thing.
He has to be.


Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-12-2016, 05:44 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: No, just what involvement Obama/Clinton supposedly had with them.

The only way I see it even remotely having the possibility of any truth would be that a group of Libyan rebels said "hey, let's keep kicking ass" and joined up with ISIS. This is where my thought of the inadvertent support came in, as we helped in the overthrow of Ghaddafi.
It wouldn't be the first time someone we supported came back and bit us in the ass.
Regardless.... all speculation and hearsay.


Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

Saudi Arabia and Iran are arming, financing, and supporting Sunni and Shia extremist in a sectarian proxy war. The U.S. And Russia are doing the same thing. There are other countries in the region chipping in to support whatever side of the sectarian schism they fall on. Plus there are guys like Saddam, Ghaddafi, and Assaud trying to retain power.  Guys like al Maliki who were supposed to help stabilize Iraq, but exacerbated the problem. It's like putting Barry Bonds on "the clear" and "the cream."  It's PEDs for terrorism. The U.S. involvement is just one piece in the puzzle. It's like all the countries got together and decided to build Frankenstein's monster and they all supplied a body part. 

I'll give you two tidbits which will tell you how F'ed up the situation is. 

1). Back when al Zarkawi was still alive Bin Laden was worried his methods were too violent. In other words, al Qaeda thought they were worse than al Qaeda. They have only gotten worse. 

2). The U.S. and Iran are cooperating with each other in a sectarian civil war which means the side were fighting is so bad we decided to kiss and make up with the Ayatollah Khomeini side. 

That's how F'ed up it is. 

PS What role do you think our cooperation with Iran to fight Sunni extremists like ISIS played in the arms agreement? Reminds me of how Pakistan allowed us to conduct military operations across their border after a sale of F16 fighters.

[Rotobeast]

(08-12-2016, 10:30 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Saudi Arabia and Iran are arming, financing, and supporting Sunni and Shia extremist in a sectarian proxy war. The U.S. And Russia are doing the same thing. There are other countries in the region chipping in to support whatever side of the sectarian schism they fall on. Plus there are guys like Saddam, Ghaddafi, and Assaud trying to retain power.  Guys like al Maliki who were supposed to help stabilize Iraq, but exacerbated the problem. It's like putting Barry Bonds on "the clear" and "the cream."  It's PEDs for terrorism. The U.S. involvement is just one piece in the puzzle. It's like all the countries got together and decided to build Frankenstein's monster and they all supplied a body part. 

I'll give you two tidbits which will tell you how F'ed up the situation is. 

1). Back when al Zarkawi was still alive Bin Laden was worried his methods were too violent. In other words, al Qaeda thought they were worse than al Qaeda. They have only gotten worse. 

2). The U.S. and Iran are cooperating with each other in a sectarian civil war which means the side were fighting is so bad we decided to kiss and make up with the Ayatollah Khomeini side. 

That's how F'ed up it is. 

That's just nuts.
Quite a complex situation.


Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

[GMDino]

(08-12-2016, 10:22 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: Wow..... what a stooge.
He's throwing this thing.
He has to be.


Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

I don't believe that.  I think he really believes that his way works and no one will dare tell him otherwise.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-12-2016, 10:34 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: That's just nuts.
Quite a complex situation.


Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

Notice the two names, al Zarqawi and Bin Laden. Both killed by U.S. military forces in the global war on terrorism. Each time we kill one of these *****, it is announced as a victory for us and a blow to the terrorists. Followed by the questions about how will it affect the terrorists organizations and will it make a difference?  Every time someone else pops up to take their place. It's like playing Whack-a-Mole. You can't win playing Whack-a-Mole. You feed all your quarters into the game then walk away broke wishing you had spent your money on something else or maybe you get a shitty prize at Chuck E. Cheese which you didn't want and you could have bought something nicer with the money you wasted playing a game you can't win. 

[Benton]

(08-12-2016, 10:34 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: That's just nuts.
Quite a complex situation.


Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

(08-12-2016, 10:40 AM)GMDino Wrote: I don't believe that.  I think he really believes that his way works and no one will dare tell him otherwise.

I dunno.

I honestly thought at the start of it, Trump was running for the publicity bump. And as it went on, I think his plan was to get Hillary elected by just staining the GOP pool. Sort of like a one man Super PAC — sling as much mud on the public stage as possible, then whoever faced off against Hillary would be easy to pick off... except he ended up winning the nomination. So now he's got a dilemma: win the election and not be able to take money from shady foreign investors, not be able to import cheap migrant labor, not be able to pickup a new wife without much drama, etc; or, not win, which is really hard for a narcissist to accept. But I still think his greed wins out in the ends and he either finds some way to eliminate himself right before the election, or just goes on a complete bender, in a last ditch effort to offend the last few people clinging to anyone Republican.

Like, standing up and saying there should be mandatory abortions for all NASCAR fans and Baptists, or that the first thing he'll do in office is use abortion money to fund confiscating all handguns.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

Can anyone tell me the biggest obstacle which prevented the Obama administration and Iraq from agreeing upon a renewed status of forces agreement which would have kept U.S. troops in Iraq beyond the withdrawal date negotiated by the Bush administration?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-11-2016, 11:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think the assertion that Obama created ISIS has some merit. They have definitely gone from the JV to the varsity under his watch.

Let's see, Bush invaded Iraq under false pretenses and deposed of the soveign government albeit a ruthless regime along the lines of Assaud, this directly led to the insurgency and al Qaeda in Iraq which we now call ISIS.  Bush installed a weaker government and trained a weaker military, Bush agreed to the withdrawl of all U.S. troops by NLT 2011 before Obama took office which created the power vacuum that allowed the JV to become the varsity.

How is it that Obama gets all the credit for creating ISIS?

[Au165]

(08-12-2016, 11:30 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: How is it that Obama gets all the credit for creating ISIS?

Same reason QB's get all the credit and blame for wins and losses, because it's easier for the "average fan" to understand.

[fredtoast]

(08-12-2016, 11:41 AM)Au165 Wrote: Same reason QB's get all the credit and blame for wins and losses, because it's easier for the "average fan" to understand.

No.  It isn't that.  If that was the case then Bfine would be giving Obama credit for the massive increase in home prices, stock prices, and corporate profits that occurred while Obama was President.

[GMDino]

(08-12-2016, 11:41 AM)Au165 Wrote: Same reason QB's get all the credit and blame for wins and losses, because it's easier for the "average fan" to understand.

Yep.  Obama didn't kill all the enemies so he's a failure.  Next...

And the lather, rinse, repeat...

[Rotobeast]

(08-12-2016, 11:16 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Can anyone tell me the biggest obstacle which prevented the Obama administration and Iraq from agreeing upon a renewed status of forces agreement which would have kept U.S. troops in Iraq beyond the withdrawal date negotiated by the Bush administration?

That the U.S. had failed to repair the infrastructure, like they promised, and the Iraqis felt there was no reason to agree to continue the occupation without results ?

Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

[*bfine32*]

So did Obama lie is 2014 when he considered ISIS the JV or was he ignorant of their power and influence?

Nobody rational thinks Obama created the Muslim radical group that now goes by the moniker ISIS, but their rise to global is associated with his Presidency. We can blame on other people if we want. it's not a new stadegy.

It can be argued that they rose to prominence when they broke with al Qaeda (an organization linked to the Bush Jr prsidency; although formed prior) after the death of Bin Laden.

Anybody that thinks they have it all figured out is just fooling themselves. This is why I didn't say trump was right or wrong in his assertion.