Let's examine Biden record on the economy

[KillerGoose]

(04-26-2023, 11:03 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The state of Florida did not shut down and thrived and is thriving. I know I live here. I bought a house in Naples in April 2021, sold it and doubled the price I paid.
Anyone blaming Trump for poor economy has head in the sand. one decision made by Biden to quit producing oil and gas domestically impacted all areas of the economy. That is a fact and the public knows it.

You're getting your information from incorrect sources. U.S. oil production is very strong currently and is on pace to set all-time highs in the near future. Biden has made no such decision. The Trump administration made the decision to slash oil production during COVID, as did the rest of the world. You can see this here. This is a link to the EIA (Energy Information Administration) site where you can see bbl production by month all the way back to 1920. This decision was due to such low demand from COVID restrictions. We were producing so much oil that we didn't have anywhere to store it. Production is much easier to cut than to ramp back up. Once restrictions were lifted, demand recovered much quicker than anticipated and we quickly ran into a supply shortfall globally. Once Russia invaded Ukraine, it exacerbated the issue because Russia was hit with sanctions, cutting off their oil from much of the global marketplace. 

Currently, we are producing 12.5MM BBL of oil per day. The likely reality is that by the end of Biden's term, the U.S. will surpass 13MM BBL per day, surpassing the ATH set under the Trump administration. It has been steadily increasing since he took office. Now, another reality is that this isn't really controlled by the President. Neither are gas prices. Neither President should get too much credit for this as it is a natural progression by producers. It is controlled by demand from the marketplace. 

EDIT - Here is a graph that visualizes oil production from 2017-2023.



You'll see two red X's - one is the production slash under the Trump administration during COVID, and the other is from Biden's first month in office. This was during the extreme cold snap in February of 2021 that actually caused well-heads to freeze, which limited production for the month. The EIA discusses this here. 

[Belsnickel]

(04-26-2023, 11:03 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The state of Florida did not shut down and thrived and is thriving. I know I live here. I bought a house in Naples in April 2021, sold it and doubled the price I paid.
Anyone blaming Trump for poor economy has head in the sand. one decision made by Biden to quit producing oil and gas domestically impacted all areas of the economy. That is a fact and the public knows it.

Is this a fact? Can you provide a source? I can point to information from sources criticizing Biden saying his administration approved more oil and gas permits in the first two years of his administration than Trump did. https://biologicaldiversity.org/w/news/press-releases/biden-administration-oil-gas-drilling-approvals-outpace-trumps-2023-01-24/

There were articles last year leading up to the election talking about oil and gas production being up despite Biden's messaging on decreasing the reliance on fossil fuels. https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/02/republicans-biden-oil-00064251

Then of course there is this fact checking article: https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2022/gas-prices-arent-high-due-to-shut-down-us-production-oil-production-in-bidens-first-year-is-on-par-with-trump/

Poynter being an organization funded by groups on both sides of the aisle.

So, I am just curious about this "fact" that you are stating.

[Belsnickel]

It's really interesting how during the Trump administration the critiques were about Trump and what he had control over. Yeah, some people would respond with "so what?!" (really the most common rebuttal when you boil it down) but overall the criticisms were actually about Trump and his policies. However, the critiques of Biden coming from the right are about things he either has no control over and/or are based on misinformation.

Just an interesting observation.

Meanwhile, critiques of Biden from the left are that he is too old and too moderate.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(04-26-2023, 11:03 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The state of Florida did not shut down and thrived and is thriving. I know I live here. I bought a house in Naples in April 2021, sold it and doubled the price I paid.
Anyone blaming Trump for poor economy has head in the sand. one decision made by Biden to quit producing oil and gas domestically impacted all areas of the economy. That is a fact and the public knows it.

Where did anyone mention Florida?

[*Nately120*]

(04-26-2023, 11:58 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Where did anyone mention Florida?

Conservatives are currently talking about how much of a paradise Florida is under DeSantis while also lining up to support a man who says that Florida is a crime-riddled mess with unaffordable living conditions being led by a weak groomer of a leech who is too interested in culture war BS to help his suffering constituents.

[Arturo Bandini]

(04-26-2023, 11:03 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The state of Florida did not shut down and thrived and is thriving. I know I live here. I bought a house in Naples in April 2021, sold it and doubled the price I paid.
Anyone blaming Trump for poor economy has head in the sand. one decision made by Biden to quit producing oil and gas domestically impacted all areas of the economy. That is a fact and the public knows it.

I don't know what to say ... You said you were a millionaire under Trump then bought a house in 2021 ( Biden's time ), sold it the double of the price and that Biden's years have made you almost broke. 

There is something that doesn't make sense except if you went to Vegas and bet it all or buy NFT, cryptos Truth Social or Twitter stock but not sure it would be Biden's fault. 

Or maybe what you say are alternative facts in an alternative reality. 

[Dill]

Jeezus, This thread is like

[Dill]

(04-26-2023, 11:21 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: You're getting your information from incorrect sources. U.S. oil production is very strong currently and is on pace to set all-time highs in the near future. Biden has made no such decision. The Trump administration made the decision to slash oil production during COVID, as did the rest of the world. You can see this here. This is a link to the EIA (Energy Information Administration) site where you can see bbl production by month all the way back to 1920. This decision was due to such low demand from COVID restrictions. We were producing so much oil that we didn't have anywhere to store it. Production is much easier to cut than to ramp back up. Once restrictions were lifted, demand recovered much quicker than anticipated and we quickly ran into a supply shortfall globally. Once Russia invaded Ukraine, it exacerbated the issue because Russia was hit with sanctions, cutting off their oil from much of the global marketplace. 

Currently, we are producing 12.5MM BBL of oil per day. The likely reality is that by the end of Biden's term, the U.S. will surpass 13MM BBL per day, surpassing the ATH set under the Trump administration. It has been steadily increasing since he took office. Now, another reality is that this isn't really controlled by the President. Neither are gas prices. Neither President should get too much credit for this as it is a natural progression by producers. It is controlled by demand from the marketplace. 

EDIT - Here is a graph that visualizes oil production from 2017-2023.



You'll see two red X's - one is the production slash under the Trump administration during COVID, and the other is from Biden's first month in office. This was during the extreme cold snap in February of 2021 that actually caused well-heads to freeze, which limited production for the month. The EIA discusses this here. 

If all this is TRUE then why wasn't it reported on Fox or Newsmax?  

Why isn't anyone talking about how the Trump tax cuts boosted our economy??

[*Nately120*]

(04-26-2023, 12:32 PM)Dill Wrote: If all this is TRUE then why wasn't it reported on Fox or Newsmax?  

Why isn't anyone talking about how the Trump tax cuts boosted our economy??

There is a general viewpoint that republicans are "better for the economy" than democrats.  I'd say that belief is a good reason we can continually elect republicans who crash the economy for all but their elite friends and then voters say "Damn democrats wrecked the economy!"

[KillerGoose]

(04-26-2023, 01:08 PM)Nately120 Wrote: There is a general viewpoint that republicans are "better for the economy" than democrats.  I'd say that belief is a good reason we can continually elect republicans who crash the economy for all but their elite friends and then voters say "Damn democrats wrecked the economy!"

This can be a funny conversation. Since we started tracking inflation data back in 1960, the country experiences higher inflation rates (on average) under Republican presidents. 

Of course, I think there is a good chunk of people in this forum who understand that economics is incredibly complex and trying to boil down economic performance to inflation is silly. However, there are many in the general public who do exactly that and bringing that factoid up will generate some unrest with them. 

[*Nately120*]

(04-26-2023, 01:12 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: This can be a funny conversation. Since we started tracking inflation data back in 1960, the country experiences higher inflation rates (on average) under Republican presidents. 

Of course, I think there is a good chunk of people in this forum who understand that economics is incredibly complex and trying to boil down economic performance to inflation is silly. However, there are many in the general public who do exactly that and bringing that factoid up will generate some unrest with them. 

Economics are tricky, so I can see why a lot of people want to believe it is as simple as "Party A is good, Party B is bad."  The real tell here is that not so long ago an economics student was writing an equation in a notebook while on a plane and he was removed because the woman next to him thought he was calculating how to blow up the plane, or something terroristic.  We are way out of our depth on this stuff.

I've been out of the loop on stuff for a while, but I could still use a whiteboard to give you a general idea about the brand life cycle of K-Mart on a power grid showing how the differentiation of the brand declined as the knowledge increased and how that is an indicator of a failing brand...but it's easier to just say that K-Mart sucked and it's gone now.


Also, this is what economics looks like:




I think that's about capital tax rates.  It's just easier to ask which lever to pull every 4 years and believe it.  Hell, some folks have gone full 180 and are convinced the best way to understand stuff like that equation is to not go to school at all.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-26-2023, 11:24 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Is this a fact? Can you provide a source? I can point to information from sources criticizing Biden saying his administration approved more oil and gas permits

That was well after his very first batch of Executive Orders, specifically to the point you're asking about, Executive Order #13990.  That's the one where he ordered a stop to the Keystone Pipeline and other actions regarding drilling and production.

[*pally*]

(04-26-2023, 01:24 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That was well after his very first batch of Executive Orders, specifically to the point you're asking about, Executive Order #13990.  That's the one where he ordered a stop to the Keystone Pipeline and other actions regarding drilling and production.

that order did not stop American Oil and Gas Production.  It stopped the extension of the Keystone Pipeline extension which was being built to carry Canadian sand oil to the gulf to tankers to be taken to China for processing.

Sand oil is basically dirty sludge. It is polluting to drill, dirtier than other grades to process, and burns dirtier.  The pipeline threatened vulnerable water sources for native tribes in the Dakotas.  

[SunsetBengal]

(04-26-2023, 01:38 PM)pally Wrote: that order did not stop American Oil and Gas Production.  It stopped the extension of the Keystone Pipeline extension which was being carry Canadian sand oil to the gulf to tankers to be taken to China for processing.

Sand oil is basically dirty sludge. It is polluting to drill, dirtier than other grades to process, and burns dirtier.  The pipeline threatened vulnerable water sources for native tribes in the Dakotas.  

Ok

Quote:Provisions[edit]


The order declares that it is the policy of the Biden Administration to:

follow scientific means to advance Public Health and the Environment;mandates a review of the actions and policies of all federal agencies taken during the Trump administration to ensure compliance with the administration's environmental policies;directs a review of the size and location of various federal lands;places a temporary moratorium on the Coastal Plain Oil and Gas Leasing Program;requires an accounting of the benefits of reducing climate pollution;revokes the permit for the Keystone XL pipeline;re-establish the Interagency Working Group on the Social Cost of Greenhouse Gases co-chaired by the Council of Economic Advisers Chair, the Office of Management and Budget Director, and the Office of Science and Technology Policy Director;revokes or reinstates various Executive Orders.

The order was one of fifteen signed during the first day of the Biden administration.[4]

[Belsnickel]

(04-26-2023, 01:46 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Ok

And none of that indicates he halted domestic oil and gas production, or even decreased it. As pointed out in the articles I posted, he may have ceased the leasing operations, but his administration still issued permits as a greater pace than the prior administration. So conclusion that the EO you posted decreased domestic oil and gas production is a faulty one.

[BigPapaKain]

I wonder how irritated Stewy is going to be when he has to come in here and explain how oil surveying, drilling, and pricing works for the (I'm guessing) 60th time.

[KillerGoose]

(04-26-2023, 02:56 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: I wonder how irritated Stewy is going to be when he has to come in here and explain how oil surveying, drilling, and pricing works for the (I'm guessing) 60th time.

That thread he created is fantastic. I'd vote for it to be stickied in this forum. One of the most educational posts we have had in here since I have frequented the area. 

[BigPapaKain]

(04-26-2023, 03:50 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: That thread he created is fantastic. I'd vote for it to be stickied in this forum. One of the most educational posts we have had in here since I have frequented the area. 

Honestly it was just nice to read something that didn't boil down to "YoUr PoLiTiCaL pArTy BaD rEeEeEe!!!'

Damn shame not more folks read it.

[BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI]

(04-26-2023, 01:24 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That was well after his very first batch of Executive Orders, specifically to the point you're asking about, Executive Order #13990.  That's the one where he ordered a stop to the Keystone Pipeline and other actions regarding drilling and production.

That stopped ONLY the XL portion of the Keystone pipeline and the SCOTUS upheld an EPA lawsuit in the spring of 2020, the court ruled in the EPA's favor and agreed that the Trump admin unlawfully failed to evaluate threats to endangered species before issuing the permit. The court invalidated the permit's use for all new oil and gas pipelines, including Keystone XL. 
While appeals from the court’s ruling were pending, the EPA secured an important victory against Keystone XL when the U.S. Supreme Court declined a request from the Trump administration and TC Energy to allow the pipeline to use the permit and proceed with construction across hundreds of waterways while the appeal is being heard.  In the end, the SCOTUS sided with the EPA.  Trump tried to ram it through with an executive order pending the litigation, and when Biden took over he withdrew the order.  

Anyway, now that's all moot b/c the SCOTUS sided with the EPA to protect the largest aquifer in North America. 



 

[Stewy]

(04-26-2023, 01:24 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That was well after his very first batch of Executive Orders, specifically to the point you're asking about, Executive Order #13990.  That's the one where he ordered a stop to the Keystone Pipeline and other actions regarding drilling and production.

Many of which have already been re-instated in court because the executive order violated federal laws.  To whit, GOM and other federal land leases sales are happening again, the big Alaska project got approved, etc.......not because Biden is a friend to the Oil & Gas industry ( far far from it), but because he had no choice.  Yet environmentalists are up in arms and Biden gets called a liar......no what he is is nan idiot who made promises he couldn't keep.

As for keystone - see above.