Mass Shooting at San Antonio Elementary School

[Belsnickel]

(06-02-2022, 02:06 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: The article you said you didnt need to read mass shootings nearly tripled and you don't see the cause and effect. Your conveniently ignoring argument to support your own agenda.

The words in the url show that the article does not support your claim. I didn't need to go further. I know these statistics. I know you're wrong.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-02-2022, 02:13 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: As far as Illinois yes they still have mass shootings. Just because 1 state has the ban it doesn't stop someone in another state where their still perfectly legal to purchase and go back to the state in question and perform a mass shooting. we need a 50 state solution state gun laws are pointless without a national law federally.

You're going to be really disappointed when the NYS ruling from SCOTUS comes out soon. 

[Bengalfan4life27c]

(06-02-2022, 02:49 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You're going to be really disappointed when the NYS ruling from SCOTUS comes out soon. 

It just means America is less safe and more mass shootings and killings we all lose as Americans. 

[*Nately120*]

(06-02-2022, 03:36 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: It just means America is less safe and more mass shootings and killings we all lose as Americans. 

Freedom isn't free doesn't just apply to dead soldiers.  You won't see aborted fetuses or dead children via school shootings on the propaganda, but we know it applies. 

The only way significant gun control is passed now is if it is part of our move towards authoritarianism. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-02-2022, 03:36 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: It just means America is less safe and more mass shootings and killings we all lose as Americans. 

(06-02-2022, 05:11 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Freedom isn't free doesn't just apply to dead soldiers.  You won't see aborted fetuses or dead children via school shootings on the propaganda, but we know it applies. 

The only way significant gun control is passed now is if it is part of our move towards authoritarianism. 

Pretty much this.  The type of gun control that would have the effect the Dems desire is unconstitutional, and will likely be more so once the new SCOTUS ruling is released.  Any attempts to achieve it will not end well.

[*Nately120*]

(06-02-2022, 07:27 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Pretty much this.  The type of gun control that would have the effect the Dems desire is unconstitutional, and will likely be more so once the new SCOTUS ruling is released.  Any attempts to achieve it will not end well.

I realize I'm just a big ol' cynic and even I'm not sure how serious I am here, but years ago I said this country is going to just have to start viewing people killed by shooters in the same way they view dead soldiers.  These are people who died in the name of freedom and they are heroes for doing so.

We can't seem to change the situation, so we are going to have to change our points of view.

[Mike M (the other one)]

I think we need to define "guns" as listed in the amendment.
Assault Rifles, are not GUNS, they are Military Grade WMD.

Therefore any Military Grade weapons should be illegal in the hands of civilians.

IDK, I'm not a gun person, so i'm not sure if that makes sense?

I understand hunting and all that, done it, but really?? anyone that goes "hunting" with an AR-15 doesn't plan to eat the meat from the hunt and it's silly to even use one for hunting ANIMALS.

[BigPapaKain]

(06-05-2022, 05:32 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I think we need to define "guns" as listed in the amendment.
Assault Rifles, are not GUNS, they are Military Grade WMD.

Therefore any Military Grade weapons should be illegal in the hands of civilians.

IDK, I'm not a gun person, so i'm not sure if that makes sense?

I understand hunting and all that, done it, but really?? anyone that goes "hunting" with an AR-15 doesn't plan to eat the meat from the hunt and it's silly to even use one for hunting ANIMALS.

A 5.56 does a lot less damage than most hunting rounds.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-05-2022, 05:32 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I think we need to define "guns" as listed in the amendment.
Assault Rifles, are not GUNS, they are Military Grade WMD.

Therefore any Military Grade weapons should be illegal in the hands of civilians.

IDK, I'm not a gun person, so i'm not sure if that makes sense?

I understand hunting and all that, done it, but really?? anyone that goes "hunting" with an AR-15 doesn't plan to eat the meat from the hunt and it's silly to even use one for hunting ANIMALS.

This whole post does nothing but demonstrate that you have zero idea what you're talking about in regard to this subject.

(06-05-2022, 05:57 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: A 5.56 does a lot less damage than most hunting rounds.

It is astounding how ignorant many, if not most, people who opine on this issue are.  A 5.56 round is much less powerful than a standard hunting round, which is usually .308 Winchester/7.62 NATO, or a 30-06, which the .308 is a slightly cut down .308.  This is why gun owners don't feel comfortable giving even an inch.  Today it will be "weapons of war" and "assault weapons".  Then it will be that your hunting rifle is a "high powered sniper rifle."  The Dems are utterly disingenuous on this subject, no pro 2A person will trust a word that comes out of their mouth regarding this subject.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(06-05-2022, 05:57 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: A 5.56 does a lot less damage than most hunting rounds.

ok, and how many rounds does Most hunting guns hold? vs the AR15?

From my understanding, the AR was built for short-med rapid fire burst at the target(s), which are Humans, not animals, is that wrong?
Just like sniper rifles. they were not designed for hunting anything other than humans, so why does civilians need those too? 

[Mike M (the other one)]

(06-05-2022, 06:20 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: This whole post does nothing but demonstrate that you have zero idea what you're talking about in regard to this subject.


It is astounding how ignorant many, if not most, people who opine on this issue are.  A 5.56 round is much less powerful than a standard hunting round, which is usually .308 Winchester/7.62 NATO, or a 30-06, which the .308 is a slightly cut down .308.  This is why gun owners don't feel comfortable giving even an inch.  Today it will be "weapons of war" and "assault weapons".  Then it will be that your hunting rifle is a "high powered sniper rifle."  The Dems are utterly disingenuous on this subject, no pro 2A person will trust a word that comes out of their mouth regarding this subject.

It's why i'm asking questions.
Guns are not my thing and never will be. I've fired many types for fun, but it's nothing more to me than a couple hours of entertainment.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-05-2022, 06:29 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: It's why i'm asking questions.
Guns are not my thing and never will be. I've fired many types for fun, but it's nothing more to me than a couple hours of entertainment.

You know what?  Fair enough and my apologies.  I'm happy to answer any question(s) you may have.  I am fairly well versed, although I have friends who blow my knowledge out of the water.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(06-05-2022, 07:16 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You know what?  Fair enough and my apologies.  I'm happy to answer any question(s) you may have.  I am fairly well versed, although I have friends who blow my knowledge out of the water.

good. Walk me thru the process real fast.
I've got a clean record and mentally stable, can i go down the street and what can i buy?
Do i need a license first? 
Do i have to register the gun? or is it done automatically if i buy from a federally licensed place of business?
What if i buy one from Jim Bob down the road? will it be registered to me after POS? 
If so, is that his or my responsibility?

Now, i'm new to collecting and like any other hobby, i go all in, so how many can i buy?
if i buy 20+ over a span of 2-3 weeks, will i get flagged? 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(06-02-2022, 01:37 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It's very telling that one extremely obvious way to limit shootings hasn't even been discussed in this thread, actually enforce laws on the books.

Or, hear me out.. don't prosecute people who get arrested, let violent criminals have low/no bail, let violent criminals leave jail early, and defund police. Then instead focus on trying to control law abiding gun owners. I'm pretty sure that'll solve any violent crime problems.

[Belsnickel]

(06-05-2022, 07:35 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: good. Walk me thru the process real fast.
I've got a clean record and mentally stable, can i go down the street and what can i buy?

Based on Ohio laws, you you can purchase most any non-NFA firearms on the spot from either an FFL or a private seller with no problems and no background check required if purchasing from a private seller.

(06-05-2022, 07:35 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Do i need a license first? 

Negative. Ohio has no permit-to-purchase law.

(06-05-2022, 07:35 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Do i have to register the gun? or is it done automatically if i buy from a federally licensed place of business?

Ohio does not have any sort of registration.

(06-05-2022, 07:35 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: What if i buy one from Jim Bob down the road? will it be registered to me after POS? 

N/A

(06-05-2022, 07:35 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: If so, is that his or my responsibility?

N/A

(06-05-2022, 07:35 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Now, i'm new to collecting and like any other hobby, i go all in, so how many can i buy?

As many as you like.

(06-05-2022, 07:35 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: if i buy 20+ over a span of 2-3 weeks, will i get flagged? 

So, there are forms required by the BATF if purchasing more than one firearm within a number of days (5 maybe? I can't remember). However, this is more about record keeping and checking on any potential concerns rather than restrictions on purchases.

[Belsnickel]

(06-05-2022, 05:32 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I understand hunting and all that, done it, but really?? anyone that goes "hunting" with an AR-15 doesn't plan to eat the meat from the hunt and it's silly to even use one for hunting ANIMALS.

So, I am an old school hunter that even uses single-shot rifles and the occasional bolt or lever action. I tell people all the time that use semi-automatic firearms while hunting that just means they aren't good enough shots. That being said, there are absolutely sporting uses for AR platform rifles. They are used most commonly for predator and nuisance animal control with coyotes, large rodents, hogs, etc. However, I have seen AR-10s in the woods hunting for deer and bear. They work just fine and fire the same round as my Ruger American, which is a .308. In fact, get ready for this, that AR-10 takes the same Magpul magazine as my bolt action Ruger.

Modern sporting rifles (which is what the firearms industry calls AR platform rifles) have a place in sporting. Are they going to be common on the western mountains where 700+ yard shots are more common? Nope. But will they be used in the eastern forests where shots typically don't go beyond 300 yards? All the damn time. I'm not going to use them, but many will and do.

Edit to add: In all seriousness, check out this site: https://www.nssf.org/msr/

The NSSF is the firearm industry trade organization, so there is a heavy bias, but the information on that page is accurate.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-05-2022, 07:35 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: good. Walk me thru the process real fast.
I've got a clean record and mentally stable, can i go down the street and what can i buy?

It depends on the state in which you reside.  Are you interested in a specific category of firearms?

Quote:Do i need a license first? 

To just buy?  Generally, no.  I believe Illinois has some very strict requirements as far as what you must complete before you buy.  In CA you need to pass a gun safety quiz first unless you are exempt, as I am, do to being a sown peace officer.

Quote:Do i have to register the gun? or is it done automatically if i buy from a federally licensed place of business?

Any FFL (Federal Firearms License), which is every gun store, automatically logs what you are buying, including serial number.  Federal law prohibits a registry and such records have a shelf life, although that time frame for this shelf life changes, and has done so recently.  As far as registering the gun yourself, no.  Some states have passed laws requiring that certain firearms already owned be registered (NY, MA and CA immediately come to mind), but the level of compliance with such requirements has been exceedingly low.  Gun owners fear, IMO correctly, that any registry will only be used to enable confiscation in the future.

Quote:What if i buy one from Jim Bob down the road? will it be registered to me after POS? 
If so, is that his or my responsibility?

Again, depends on the state.  Some states, such as CA, do not allow for PPTs (private party transfers) that do not go through an FFL background check.  In such states if you are selling a firearm to another individual you must find an FFL that is willing to process the background check and hold the firearm for the required waiting period, in CA 10 days.  Of course the FFL makes very little money on such transactions so many FFL's do not bother offering such a service.

Quote:Now, i'm new to collecting and like any other hobby, i go all in, so how many can i buy?

I don't know of a state, even CA, the has a cap on the number of firearms you can own.

Quote:if i buy 20+ over a span of 2-3 weeks, will i get flagged? 

I don't work in federal law enforcement, but this subject is the topic of a lot of speculation.  CA passed a law that you cannot buy more than one non-rimfire firearm every thirty days.  This was done to offset the "panic buying" that proceeds every new, stupid gun law.  But, generally, you can buy as many firearms from an FFL as you can afford, as long as you pass the background check. The "gun show loophole", which does not exist as it is not exclusive to gun shows, is for states that allow private sales without a background check.  Any FFL sale must include a background check.  There are states in which private parties can sell a firearm to another private party without such a check.  I would note that such sales account for a miniscule number of firearms used in a crime.  Most firearms used in a crime are stolen, either from private citizens or prior to point of sale.  hell, here in CA we have rampant rail car theft outside the port of Los Angeles and Long Beach.  Guns are the main target of such thefts.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/train-robberies-are-a-problem-in-los-angeles-and-no-one-agrees-on-how-to-stop-them-11642946401

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-05-2022, 08:50 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So, I am an old school hunter that even uses single-shot rifles and the occasional bolt or lever action. I tell people all the time that use semi-automatic firearms while hunting that just means they aren't good enough shots. That being said, there are absolutely sporting uses for AR platform rifles. They are used most commonly for predator and nuisance animal control with coyotes, large rodents, hogs, etc. However, I have seen AR-10s in the woods hunting for deer and bear. They work just fine and fire the same round as my Ruger American, which is a .308. In fact, get ready for this, that AR-10 takes the same Magpul magazine as my bolt action Ruger.

Modern sporting rifles (which is what the firearms industry calls AR platform rifles) have a place in sporting. Are they going to be common on the western mountains where 700+ yard shots are more common? Nope. But will they be used in the eastern forests where shots typically don't go beyond 300 yards? All the damn time. I'm not going to use them, but many will and do.

First, I found your take on Mike's questions interesting, as they come from a completely different section of the country.  Always interesting to hear other state's answers to these questions.  As for semi-auto hunting, for ungulates I'd agree with you, but for other animals such as feral hogs, semi-auto's are vastly preferred, as you stated.  I've hunted feral hogs with my lever action 45-70 and with my semi auto .458 SOCOM.  When you have a big hog cluster the semi auto capability lets you bag a lot more hogs than a lever or bolt action rifle.  For those that don't know, many states, such as TX have such a feral hog problem that they are "no tag no limit" meaning literally anyone can hunt as many as they want as often as they want, and the population continues to grow.  You are completely correct in regard to nuisance animal hunting, 5.56 is perfect for coyotes.  Sorry to anyone who likes them, but coyotes absolutely suck.  I live in urban Orange County, and we recently had a coyote attack a toddler.  When I lived in the Hollywood Hills one tried to snatch my Jack Russell while I was walking her.  They routinely attack and kill house pets.  Sincerely, eff coyotes in urban areas, kill all of them.  

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-05-2022, 08:11 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Or, hear me out.. don't prosecute people who get arrested, let violent criminals have low/no bail, let violent criminals leave jail early, and defund police. Then instead focus on trying to control law abiding gun owners. I'm pretty sure that'll solve any violent crime problems.

What a crazy position you've just taken! 

[Belsnickel]

(06-05-2022, 09:00 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: First, I found your take on Mike's questions interesting, as they come from a completely different section of the country.  Always interesting to hear other state's answers to these questions.  As for semi-auto hunting, for ungulates I'd agree with you, but for other animals such as feral hogs, semi-auto's are vastly preferred, as you stated.  I've hunted feral hogs with my lever action 45-70 and with my semi auto .458 SOCOM.  When you have a big hog cluster the semi auto capability lets you bag a lot more hogs than a lever or bolt action rifle.  For those that don't know, many states, such as TX have such a feral hog problem that they are "no tag no limit" meaning literally anyone can hunt as many as they want as often as they want, and the population continues to grow.  You are completely correct in regard to nuisance animal hunting, 5.56 is perfect for coyotes.  Sorry to anyone who likes them, but coyotes absolutely suck.  I live in urban Orange County, and we recently had a coyote attack a toddler.  When I lived in the Hollywood Hills one tried to snatch my Jack Russell while I was walking her.  They routinely attack and kill house pets.  Sincerely, eff coyotes in urban areas, kill all of them.  

I just want to be clear, my commentary about giving semi-auto hunters shit is more about giving them shit and not my actual point-of-view. Yeah, I hunt deer and bear single-shot or bolt action most of the time, but an AR style rifle can actually make hunting more accessible as it reduces the felt recoil to a level that will allow someone who may not be able to handle the full brunt of a .308 to take a shot at a deer or bear. I want more hunters and making the sport more accessible is a part of that.

Also, I just saw he lived in Ohio and happen to know those laws. They are similar to here, though we do require a background check for private sales, now, which isn't really enforceable.