Mass shootings

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-21-2018, 10:46 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Every district I have been in it always seems like we have an excess of administrators. While class size always grew. That in Ohio and Florida

Recruiting violations have a tendency of producing that effect.

[J24]

(02-21-2018, 10:21 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: The best part was probably when Trump suggested arming teachers and putting undercover cops in the schools as custodians and cafeteria workers.

He asked for a show of hands for support and got barely any hands up. He then asked who didn't like it and more hands went up.

Either way, I guess I'm getting a free gun and a new co-worker. Can't wait for my PD days to be spent with target practice.

Hell they would probably give you more teacher workdays so you can work on your shooting. 

[StLucieBengal]

Armed security is a reasonable step in all this stuff.

Either we are going to fix the school shooting problem or democrats will just want to stand on the graves of dead children every time it happens to push for gun seizures.

This is the exact same thing with the illegal immigrants..... they don’t want to fix it because then they can’t use them. It’s sad.

Quote:According to the Crime Prevention Research Center, "gun free zones" (areas where guns are prohibited) have been the target of more than 98% of all mass shootings. This staggering number is why such designated areas are often referred to as "soft targets," meaning unprotected and vulnerable.

"According to the Crime Prevention Research Center, only a little more than 1 percent of mass public shootings since 1950 have occurred in places that were not considered to be a gun-free zone," reports The Blaze. "In fact, as Crime Prevention Research Center President John Lott Jr. noted in October 2015, only two mass shootings in the U.S. since 1950 have occurred in an area where citizens were not prohibited from carrying a gun."

[Belsnickel]

Armed security/teachers, gun control, border wall/security, etc., etc.

There is something these policy solutions all have in common; they aren't solutions. These are all superficial talking points that actually don't work to resolve any issues that cause school shootings, gun violence, or illegal immigration. They are things that can be done in a relatively short amount of time that don't cost as much as what the real solutions would and so they free up the time of lawmakers to focus on raising money for reelection and spending government funds on pet projects to pay those donors back. I'm not saying there isn't a need for superficial, quick fixes. Too often, though, that is where the conversation begins and ends in the public discourse. Comprehensive, holistic solutions are needed to address these problems and our policymakers aren't willing to put in the time, money, and effort required to make them happen. The more they keep the public bickering over this bullshit they are free to just continue not doing their jobs to actually craft decent policy.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-22-2018, 10:48 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Armed security/teachers, gun control, border wall/security, etc., etc.

There is something these policy solutions all have in common; they aren't solutions. These are all superficial talking points that actually don't work to resolve any issues that cause school shootings, gun violence, or illegal immigration. They are things that can be done in a relatively short amount of time that don't cost as much as what the real solutions would and so they free up the time of lawmakers to focus on raising money for reelection and spending government funds on pet projects to pay those donors back. I'm not saying there isn't a need for superficial, quick fixes. Too often, though, that is where the conversation begins and ends in the public discourse. Comprehensive, holistic solutions are needed to address these problems and our policymakers aren't willing to put in the time, money, and effort required to make them happen. The more they keep the public bickering over this bullshit they are free to just continue not doing their jobs to actually craft decent policy.

[Benton]

(02-22-2018, 10:33 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Armed security is a reasonable step in all this stuff.

Either we are going to fix the school shooting problem or democrats will just want to stand on the graves of dead children every time it happens to push for gun seizures.

This is the exact same thing with the illegal immigrants..... they don’t want to fix it because then they can’t use them. It’s sad.

KEntuckys governor is pushing for arming teachers. The same group he’s advocated are too dumb and selfish to send your kids to in his push to get for profit education approved. Last night my wife and I started discussing private school education for our daughter (the son just lived though a school shooting because Kentucky has been lazy). I’m not sending my kid to a school where the “answer” is a 60 year old woman with a .38 and 30 minutes at the gun range.

Arming teachers is a stupid approach that’s more likely to get an innocent kid shot.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-22-2018, 11:03 AM)Benton Wrote: KEntuckys governor is pushing for arming teachers. The same group he’s advocated are too dumb and selfish to send your kids to in his push to get for profit education approved. Last night my wife and I started discussing private school education for our daughter (the son just lived though a school shooting because Kentucky has been lazy). I’m not sending my kid to a school where the “answer” is a 60 year old woman with a .38 and 30 minutes at the gun range.

Arming teachers is a stupid approach that’s more likely to get an innocent kid shot.

We have a real winner in the Governor's mansion here, don't we.  Carpetbagging, corporate shill S.O.B.

[Griever]

(02-22-2018, 10:33 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Armed security is a reasonable step in all this stuff.  

Either we are going to fix the school shooting problem or democrats will just want to stand on the graves of dead children  every time it happens to push for gun seizures.  

This is the exact same thing with the illegal immigrants.....  they don’t want to fix it because then they can’t use them.    It’s sad.  

so you are anti-gun control, but pro-wall

how does that work if you think gun control wont stop criminals, when a wall wont stop them either

[Benton]

(02-22-2018, 11:08 AM)WychesWarrior Wrote: We have a real winner in the Governor's mansion here, don't we.  Carpetbagging, corporate shill S.O.B.

I used to be lukewarm to the guy. He was pushing for some good things (higher cop pay, reforming child services and adoptions). I balanced his “let’s let corporate interests gobble up the budget” approach. Then he came and had a day of prayer about 5 miles from where we walked the kids into the high school opening morning. While he jogged up a security detail and half our deputies, the parents and teachers walked their kids into school. He was here for a photo op while those law enforcement officers might have been needed or at least visible for comfort for the kids.

[WeezyBengal]

(02-15-2018, 11:00 AM)Au165 Wrote: School's are criminally under funded when it comes to security. The issue would be that the cost of metal detectors is high and the amount required to cover all schools is a pretty astronomical number. One metal detector per school won't cut it some of the larger high schools you will be talking 10+ to even think about having any normalcy to school and getting kids inside in a reasonable time. The hidden cost here is for every metal detector you add, you need to add a body to run it which means you are now having to hire that many security guards as well. When you add the cost of the guard to the cost of the metal detector you are now talking about something that just isn't feasible to fund. 

Good points. And at the end of the day, what is to stop a kid that really wants to do harm from running up on a group of kids waiting to go through the metal detector and just killing them right then and there? 

[GMDino]

(02-22-2018, 10:48 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Armed security/teachers, gun control, border wall/security, etc., etc.

There is something these policy solutions all have in common; they aren't solutions. These are all superficial talking points that actually don't work to resolve any issues that cause school shootings, gun violence, or illegal immigration. They are things that can be done in a relatively short amount of time that don't cost as much as what the real solutions would and so they free up the time of lawmakers to focus on raising money for reelection and spending government funds on pet projects to pay those donors back. I'm not saying there isn't a need for superficial, quick fixes. Too often, though, that is where the conversation begins and ends in the public discourse. Comprehensive, holistic solutions are needed to address these problems and our policymakers aren't willing to put in the time, money, and effort required to make them happen. The more they keep the public bickering over this bullshit they are free to just continue not doing their jobs to actually craft decent policy.

Is Florida now the tipping point?

Have americans REALLY had enough to stay focused long enough to get REAL change?

I don't know yet.

But if a group of rubes can get so riled up over gay wedding cakes and men who wear dresses they will elect a "man" like Trump maybe our kids getting killed will rile up the rest of us to elect people who will work at actually protecting them.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-22-2018, 11:20 AM)Benton Wrote: I used to be lukewarm to the guy. He was pushing for some good things (higher cop pay, reforming child services and adoptions). I balanced his “let’s let corporate interests gobble up the budget” approach. Then he came and had a day of prayer about 5 miles from where we walked the kids into the high school opening morning. While he jogged up a security detail and half our deputies, the parents and teachers walked their kids into school. He was here for a photo op while those law enforcement officers might have been needed or at least visible for comfort for the kids.

I was indifferent......until the cutting out of scale pay, and his reversal of the salary law...both of those affect me in my profession.  Then came the pension debacle.  I have friends who are teachers and first responders.  All of that sucks in my humble opinion.

I hear ya on the photo op.  Kinda like ol' Dirty Mitch.  He shows up in Harrodsburg at Corning's announcement of a collaboration with Apple to expand the plant to produce the Gorilla Glass for the Iphone....all smiles, like he actually did something; when it was the executives of both companies that worked together, without any government involvement, that got that done.  Meanwhile, in Eastern Kentucky, places like Martin County have gone without water for weeks at a time due to pollution and outdated water systems......Turtle is nowhere to be found.  Our "leaders" here are the pits, and have been for over a century.

[Benton]

(02-22-2018, 11:23 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Good points. And at the end of the day, what is to stop a kid that really wants to do harm from running up on a group of kids waiting to go through the metal detector and just killing them right then and there? 

IDeally that’s where you’d have a sro. As opposed to a sho having one trying to be at 10 different areas, if you restrict it to 1-2 entrances, you can use fewer resources for more safety.

[Arturo Bandini]

I'm quite sure you don't care much but as an european, this thread is incredible ...

Speechless.

[Belsnickel]

(02-22-2018, 11:30 AM)GMDino Wrote: Is Florida now the tipping point?

Have americans REALLY had enough to stay focused long enough to get REAL change?

I don't know yet.

But if a group of rubes can get so riled up over gay wedding cakes and men who wear dresses they will elect a "man" like Trump maybe our kids getting killed will rile up the rest of us to elect people who will work at actually protecting them.

The answer is no. And I say no because how much have you heard about these comprehensive reforms in the discussion? What politician is out there talking about how boosting school funding will help schools have the resources to focus more on students and prevent them from becoming a school shooter? How many politicians are out there talking about the strongest correlation to gun violence being poverty? I haven't heard any in the midst of all of this, and if there are any the media isn't giving them any attention.

This isn't the tipping point because the public is playing into this false dichotomy narrative that politicians have been setting up for years that just serves to keep us distracted from their shenanigans.

[WeezyBengal]

You can try to ban guns all you want but at the end of the day, people will still get their hands on them through the black market and by other means and continue to commit crimes. There were two people at work debating about gun control the other day (I know...kill me, right?) and one of the guys finally said "Well if you want to make guns illegal then they should just make murder illegal, then no one would ever do it."

That comment actually stuck with me. I think at times a lot of us forget that the bigger crime committed during these shootings is the actual act of murder. People are breaking the law when it comes to murder so its more than likely they will break the law when it comes to gun possession. Gun laws wont fix it.

There is an interesting chapter in the book Freakonomics that uses mass metadata so answer the question if gun regulation actually works, and the straight up answer is NO, it does not work. In the book it mentions Switzerland and how it has one of the highest gun per person capitas in the world yet they are one of the safest countries in the world with some of the least amount of gun violence.

In no way am I saying that we need to give everyone out there a gun or am I for banning guns completely, but I am for passing legislation or laws making guns impossible for those who shouldn't have them from getting them.

My biggest issue with everyone is that they are so far right or left on the issue. Ban them completely or give them to everyone. One of the first steps in trying to make this better (because there really is no solution to COMPLETELY eliminate it) is to meet in the middle and come up with a plan that makes sense.

[WeezyBengal]

(02-22-2018, 11:35 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: I'm quite sure you don't care much but as an european, this thread is incredible ...

Speechless.

And what exactly is that supposed to mean? 

[BmorePat87]

(02-22-2018, 10:33 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Armed security is a reasonable step in all this stuff.  

Either we are going to fix the school shooting problem or democrats will just want to stand on the graves of dead children  every time it happens to push for gun seizures.  

This is the exact same thing with the illegal immigrants.....  they don’t want to fix it because then they can’t use them.    It’s sad.  

The data you're citing is severely flawed. They argue that military bases are "gun free zones" and consider private homes to be them too. Other research has shown that only 13% of mass shootings have occurred in "gun free zones".

http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2017/feb/21/richard-corcoran/do-most-mass-shootings-happen-gun-free-zones/

Like Matt said, being armed doesn't stop the shootings from occurring, you just hope that you can minimize the death toll.

[Arturo Bandini]

(02-22-2018, 11:49 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: And what exactly is that supposed to mean? 

That you really really love your guns ... 

And I don't understand why would I need a gun to live my life ...

[*michaelsean*]

(02-22-2018, 11:35 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: I'm quite sure you don't care much but as an european, this thread is incredible ...

Speechless.

Correct.