Mass shootings

[*Nately120*]

(02-23-2018, 05:30 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Very few folks want to shoot anybody, so I'd imagine a teacher would be no different.

I hear ya, but adding "might have to shoot someone" to a job description is something that probably doesn't come up much.  Like I said, this could just turn into being "just the way it is."  When people sign up to be cops, or join the army, or be teachers they know what they're getting into from now on.

You just have to feel for the people who are caught mid-stream who entered the teaching profession without foreseeing this sort of thing.

[*bfine32*]

(02-23-2018, 05:11 PM)GMDino Wrote: I don't want you to think that was an attack.

I'm just looking at it as a soldier would feel safer with a gun in a war zone than a teacher would in his desk while teaching history.  Meaning that knowing they have a gun and may have to use it but never know when is different for a soldier and a teacher.

Certainly SOME might want to be armed.  I just haven't met one I know yet.

And, I agree, that we have to do more than just arm a few teachers.  There has to be a broad change in multiple areas of society.

Yours was not taken as an attack.

And my mentality may not be that of many educators. Hell, I work on a Military Installation and I cannot carry.

[*bfine32*]

(02-23-2018, 05:31 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I hear ya, but adding "might have to shoot someone" to a job description is something that probably doesn't come up much.  Like I said, this could just turn into being "just the way it is."  When people sign up to be cops, or join the army, or be teachers they know what they're getting into from now on.

You just have to feel for the people who are caught mid-stream who entered the teaching profession without foreseeing this sort of thing.

As I said: no teacher should be forced to carry, but we might want to explore giving the well trained the option.

[*Nately120*]

(02-23-2018, 05:33 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As I said: no teacher should be forced to carry, but we might want to explore giving the well trained the option.

I'm thinking less about the carrying and more about the fact that we have created a country where teachers legitimately feel the need to go to work armed and prepared to fight/kill/die.  It's just a new area, but other jobs are dangerous and this is just a new look for the profession, I guess.


Again, it's just resignation to this being the way things are.  Then again, I don't have kids so I guess it doesn't affect me.

[fredtoast]

First of all "School security" and "gun control" are two totally separate issues.

It seems to me that many people are rejecting the arming of teachers because they think it is "giving in" on the issue of gun control. I agree that we should not force teachers to carry guns, but I still don't know how everyone can be against allowing teachers to carry guns to school if they want to. Teachers are supposed to be educated professionals, and I am sure they would have to be screened and trained before allowing them to carry at school.

And it has to be a secret. No one can know which teachers are armed. So it doesn't matter if none of them are armed. the threat of one of them being armed would keep schools from being such tempting "soft" targets.

[Belsnickel]

(02-23-2018, 07:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: First of all "School security" and "gun control" are two totally separate issues.

It seems to me that many people are rejecting the arming of teachers because they think it is "giving in" on the issue of gun control. I agree that we should not force teachers to carry guns, but I still don't know how everyone can be against allowing teachers to carry guns to school if they want to. Teachers are supposed to be educated professionals, and I am sure they would have to be screened and trained before allowing them to carry at school.

And it has to be a secret. No one can know which teachers are armed. So it doesn't matter if none of them are armed. the threat of one of them being armed would keep schools from being such tempting "soft" targets.

Police have to train and qualify on their weapons on a regular basis. A trained shooter like a police officer has a 30% chance of hitting a moving target. I really don't expect us to include that type of firearms training into everything else a teacher has to deal with, so the idea of teachers trying to deal with one of those situations is one that concerns me. In addition to that, when law enforcement does arrive it could prove to be dangerous to have armed teachers on scene.

I got distracted while typing this and so lost my train of thought. Long story short, I can think of a number of reasons why arming teachers is not a great idea.

[*bfine32*]

(02-23-2018, 07:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: First of all "School security" and "gun control" are two totally separate issues.

It seems to me that many people are rejecting the arming of teachers because they think it is "giving in" on the issue of gun control.  I agree that we should not force teachers to carry guns, but I still don't know how everyone can be against allowing teachers to carry guns to school if they want to.  Teachers are supposed to be educated professionals, and I am sure they would have to be screened and trained before allowing them to carry at school.

And it has to be a secret.  No one can know which teachers are armed.  So it doesn't matter if none of them are armed.  the threat of one of them being armed would keep schools from being such tempting "soft" targets.

I think the issue is that many buy into the hyperbole. A suggestion that allowing trained educators that desire to discretely carry a weapon quickly morphs into every teacher is forced to walk around looking like Rambo. 

[Belsnickel]

(02-23-2018, 07:41 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think the issue is that many buy into the hyperbole. A suggestion that allowing trained educators that desire to discretely carry a weapon quickly morphs into every teacher is forced to walk around looking like Rambo. 

I haven't bought into it, but some of the memes the hyperbole has generated can be hilarious.

[*Nately120*]

(02-23-2018, 07:41 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think the issue is that many buy into the hyperbole. A suggestion that allowing trained educators that desire to discretely carry a weapon quickly morphs into every teacher is forced to walk around looking like Rambo. 

I might be less inclined to buy into that hyperbole if it didn't seem like our government's chief goal is to sell firearms.

[Bengalzona]

(02-23-2018, 08:12 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I might be less inclined to buy into that hyperbole if it didn't seem like our government's chief goal is to sell firearms.

That's still a side-business. Selling votes will always be their main goal.

[BmorePat87]

There's already a shortage of teachers. Adding guns to the mix will mean a bigger shortage. I would absolutely find a new job if people carried at my school. Others have said the same thing.

[*bfine32*]

(02-23-2018, 09:04 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: There's already a shortage of teachers. Adding guns to the mix will mean a bigger shortage. I would absolutely find a new job if people carried at my school. Others have said the same thing.

Why would knowing that a coworker was allowed to conceal carry make you and others change professions? Seems like the commitment to the children would trump personal agenda. 

I know it's going to be hard to not view that as a slight; however, I'm genuinely curious what about the proposal would cause you and others to abandon their profession.  

[GMDino]

Now the POTUS is pushing arming teachers as the only way to prevent school shootings.  Mainly because teachers lover their students more than guards do.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-predicts-quick-action-background-checks-bump-stocks/story?id=53312593

Quote:President Donald Trump Friday continued his call to arm more teachers with guns to protect schools - saying that would be better than a security guard who "doesn't love the children."

Interested in ?

[/url]

The president made the comment during a joint news conference with Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull.
He predicted congressional action will "take place very quickly" on improving the background check system and regulating bump stocks - devices that can be used to effectively turn a legal rifle into a machine gun.

Earlier this week Trump directed the [url=http://abcnews.go.com/topics/news/us/justice-department.htm]Justice Department to draft new regulations to ban bump stocks.

The president continued to say he wants to arm teachers who are trained or have experience with guns and again criticized the school security guard the Broward County Sheriff said failed to enter the school to confront the gunman during last week's shooting in Parkland, Fla. That guard has since resigned.

Trump said that if people think about going into a school to hurt students or teachers, they won't do so if they know people are armed, repeating comments he made in a speech at the Conservative Political Action Conference Friday morning during which he said schools should no longer be "gun free zones."

"We need people that can take care of our children. We're not gonna let this happen again and the way it's not gonna happen again is that they're basically cowards. Innately, they're cowards," Trump said of gunmen who attack schools. "And if they know bad things happen to them once they get into that school by people who love the children, see a security guard doesn't know the children, doesn't love the children. This man standing outside of the school the other day doesn't love the children, probably doesn't know the children. The teachers love their children. They love their pupils. They love their students."

Personnel records show that the deputy who resigned, Scot Peterson, has worked at the school for several years and has been recognized as school resource officer of the year. One evaluation said that Peterson "takes pride in protecting the students, faculty and staff at his school."

[Goalpost]

Heard an idea today. One town had a crowding problem in their municipal building. So they exported their cops out to the schools. Basically when you entered school property, you saw police cars and administration on the grounds. That's where they worked.

[*bfine32*]

(02-23-2018, 10:21 PM)Goalpost Wrote: Heard an idea today.  One town had a crowding problem in their municipal building. So they exported their cops out to the schools.  Basically when you entered school property, you saw police cars and administration on the grounds.  That's where they worked.

IDK how I feel about this. Not sure the kids should be sharing a facility with law enforcement. Now an annex on the grounds could be an option. It's a sad state of affairs. 

[Benton]

(02-23-2018, 09:30 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why would knowing that a coworker was allowed to conceal carry make you and others change professions? Seems like the commitment to the children would trump personal agenda. 

I know it's going to be hard to not view that as a slight; however, I'm genuinely curious what about the proposal would cause you and others to abandon their profession.  

Because more guns around kids isn’t a real answer. Guns in the hands of kids, guns in the hands of untrained teachers, guns in the hands of angry adults. End of the day, the answer isn’t digging the hole deeper.

(02-23-2018, 10:21 PM)Goalpost Wrote: Heard an idea today. One town had a crowding problem in their municipal building. So they exported their cops out to the schools. Basically when you entered school property, you saw police cars and administration on the grounds. That's where they worked.

I worked in a small town that had something similar. There were two deputies during the day, two city officers. One deputy and one officer stayed on school grounds (only 600 kids in entire district). The cops had their own office in the schools (middle and high).

I don’t know if it would work in larger districts, but it’s something that could be explored.

[Griever]

we need to hurry and invent teleporters, that way when the next mass shooting happens, trump can run in there and face the shooter

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/26/politics/trump-florida-school-without-a-weapon/index.html

[fredtoast]

(02-24-2018, 12:13 AM)Benton Wrote: Because more guns around kids isn’t a real answer. Guns in the hands of kids, guns in the hands of untrained teachers, guns in the hands of angry adults. End of the day, the answer isn’t digging the hole deeper.

C'mon. No one is saying arm the kids.

[Benton]

(02-26-2018, 04:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: C'mon. No one is saying arm the kids.

THAt was referencing the shooters. Kids with guns. Which has been an issue nothing suggested is addressing.

[Griever]

(02-26-2018, 04:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: C'mon. No one is saying arm the kids.

not yet at least