Mass shootings

[*Nately120*]

(02-23-2018, 09:04 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: There's already a shortage of teachers. Adding guns to the mix will mean a bigger shortage. I would absolutely find a new job if people carried at my school. Others have said the same thing.

Maybe the face of teaching will change.  Republicans are always saying teachers make way too much money for what they do, so maybe now that carrying a gun and the possibility of being a national hero by stopping the next would-be mass shooter will encourage more right-wingers to become teachers.

[*bfine32*]

(02-24-2018, 12:13 AM)Benton Wrote: Because more guns around kids isn’t a real answer. Guns in the hands of kids, guns in the hands of untrained teachers, guns in the hands of angry adults. End of the day, the answer isn’t digging the hole deeper.

(02-26-2018, 04:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: C'mon. No one is saying arm the kids.

Nor did anyone advocate putting guns in the hands of untrained and/or angry adults. but sometimes when our argument lacks a lot of merit we will embellish.

[Arturo Bandini]

That's a brilliant idea to give weapons to teachers as it is well known that teaching and shooting at assaultmen works in pair everywhere in the world.

Next steps :

Give the teachers assault rifles
Teach in security bunkers.
Make the navy seals the US teachers.
Close all the schools.

[*bfine32*]

(02-26-2018, 06:13 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: That's a brilliant idea to give weapons to teachers as it is well known that teaching and shooting at assaultmen works in pair everywhere in the world.

Next steps :

Give the teachers assault rifles
Teach in security bunkers.
Make the navy seals the US teachers.
Close all the schools.

This is known as the slippery-slope fallacy and is not a quality retort. 

[BmorePat87]

(02-23-2018, 09:30 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why would knowing that a coworker was allowed to conceal carry make you and others change professions? Seems like the commitment to the children would trump personal agenda. 

I know it's going to be hard to not view that as a slight; however, I'm genuinely curious what about the proposal would cause you and others to abandon their profession.  

Honestly, I'd feel unsafe and couldn't teach in an environment I feel is not conducive of learning. 

Adding thousands of guns to a school creates thousands of more chances for a child to get hurt. 

[BmorePat87]

(02-26-2018, 04:57 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Maybe the face of teaching will change.  Republicans are always saying teachers make way too much money for what they do, so maybe now that carrying a gun and the possibility of being a national hero by stopping the next would-be mass shooter will encourage more right-wingers to become teachers.

ends the liberal agenda 

[Benton]

(02-26-2018, 05:50 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Nor did anyone advocate putting guns in the hands of untrained and/or angry adults. but sometimes when our argument lacks a lot of merit we will embellish.

Ah, I was wondering why you started comparing trained soldiers with guns to teachers and schools.

[*bfine32*]

(02-26-2018, 07:53 PM)Benton Wrote: Ah, I was wondering why you started comparing trained soldiers with guns to teachers and schools.

No doubt. I must have done that when I stated I cannot speak for educators. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-26-2018, 07:47 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Honestly, I'd feel unsafe and couldn't teach in an environment I feel is not conducive of learning. 

Adding thousands of guns to a school creates thousands of more chances for a child to get hurt. 

Good thing it's unnecessary then.  The odds of a student being shot at school are an order of magnitude less than their odds of getting killed in the car ride to school.  Their odds of slipping and getting severely injured getting out of the shower is far higher.  Literally nothing needs to change as the event is so rare as to not warrant it.  As has been endlessly stated, this shooting should never have happened and wouldn't have happened if just one of numerous people had actually done their job in regards to this kid.  Fix what didn't work before you create another thing that might not work.

[Belsnickel]

(02-26-2018, 09:26 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Good thing it's unnecessary then.  The odds of a student being shot at school are an order of magnitude less than their odds of getting killed in the car ride to school.  Their odds of slipping and getting severely injured getting out of the shower is far higher.  Literally nothing needs to change as the event is so rare as to not warrant it.  As has been endlessly stated, this shooting should never have happened and wouldn't have happened if just one of numerous people had actually done their job in regards to this kid.  Fix what didn't work before you create another thing that might not work.

A political scientist I follow online ran the numbers. Based on current trends, a kin in K-12 has a 0.06% chance of being in a school with a school shooting per year. They have a 0.00014% chance of being shot in such an event each year.

There are real reasons to look at what happened here and we should always seek to prevent these shootings from happening, but the risks are overblown in the media to the nth degree.

[Benton]

(02-26-2018, 09:26 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Good thing it's unnecessary then.  The odds of a student being shot at school are an order of magnitude less than their odds of getting killed in the car ride to school.  Their odds of slipping and getting severely injured getting out of the shower is far higher.  Literally nothing needs to change as the event is so rare as to not warrant it.  As has been endlessly stated, this shooting should never have happened and wouldn't have happened if just one of numerous people had actually done their job in regards to this kid.  Fix what didn't work before you create another thing that might not work.

I think that’s part of why we had one 20ish miles and 20 years later. People throughout our area had already had its school shooing, so we must be done.

Also, take heath. It’s merged into a bigger district which still has issues. Only one shooting but multiple instances of firearms found, “hit lists,” stabbings, etc. A friend has spent the last year trying to get the district sros (there’s three just at the high school) to use the metal detectors which were purchased by the sbdm and have spent the year sitting in a box. The school only has two entrances, but the officers don’t use them.

[BmorePat87]

(02-26-2018, 09:26 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Good thing it's unnecessary then.  The odds of a student being shot at school are an order of magnitude less than their odds of getting killed in the car ride to school.  Their odds of slipping and getting severely injured getting out of the shower is far higher.  Literally nothing needs to change as the event is so rare as to not warrant it.  As has been endlessly stated, this shooting should never have happened and wouldn't have happened if just one of numerous people had actually done their job in regards to this kid.  Fix what didn't work before you create another thing that might not work.

It shouldn't only change because of this, but more social workers, psychologists, counselors, and pupil personnel workers are needed in school for a variety of reasons. I think the system as is catches far more of these kids than they let slip past, but it could be more efficient.

[*Nately120*]

(02-26-2018, 10:13 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: A political scientist I follow online ran the numbers. Based on current trends, a kin in K-12 has a 0.06% chance of being in a school with a school shooting per year. They have a 0.00014% chance of being shot in such an event each year.

There are real reasons to look at what happened here and we should always seek to prevent these shootings from happening, but the risks are overblown in the media to the nth degree.

Yep, but we've been over how little fear and logic can be connected in people's minds.  I've seen enough people say that terrorists are a major threat but seatbelts are optional and don't make you safer, to draw that conclusion.

At any rate, in my biased mind one of the bigger things to take from this shooting is that the gunman's weapon was deadly enough to keep armed law enforcement officers thinking twice about running in....so teachers with handguns?  Is that enough?  This also brings up the notion that not all guns are created equal, but I don't expect the "He woulda killed 'em all with a rock if he didn't have that assault rifle" crowd to admit the police would have gleefully taken down a maniac with half a brick.

[fredtoast]

(02-26-2018, 09:26 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote:   As has been endlessly stated, this shooting should never have happened and wouldn't have happened if just one of numerous people had actually done their job in regards to this kid.  Fix what didn't work before you create another thing that might not work.

Here is what does not work......The kid could have bought this gun from a private seller even if the authorities had put him on every list that would hyave shown up with a background check.

we need to change laws about private gun sells.  License every gun owner and make every gun registered to an owner.  Then make every owner responsible to only sell the gun to a licensed gun owner.

Background checks are meaningless with our current laws.

[BengalHawk62]

(02-27-2018, 01:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Here is what does not work......The kid could have bought this gun from a private seller even if the authorities had put him on every list that would hyave shown up with a background check.

we need to change laws about private gun sells.  License every gun owner and make every gun registered to an owner.  Then make every owner responsible to only sell the gun to a licensed gun owner.

Background checks are meaningless with our current laws.

I like that, but what happens when I come to Fred's house and steal your 9MM.  Only to use said 9MM in a robbery and I kill someone.  I get away, but throw the gun down as I leave the bank.  The cops come pick up the hand gun, run it thru the licensed gun database and find Fredtoast as the owner.  Cops come knocking on Fred's door.  In in ideal world, this makes perfect sense and I'm all for it....unfortunately this isn't an ideal world.  It all comes back to a mental health issue and unfortunately the Republicans in this state are defunding mental health programs and closing hospitals and county homes.  They are pretending mental health problems do not exist.  So I'm exceptionally curious to hear Trump say this is a mental health issue and what his plans are.  Because locally, those in his party, are turning away from those who are in need of shelters and general assistance. 

[GMDino]

(02-27-2018, 03:01 PM)BengalHawk62 Wrote: I like that, but what happens when I come to Fred's house and steal your 9MM.  Only to use said 9MM in a robbery and I kill someone.  I get away, but throw the gun down as I leave the bank.  The cops come pick up the hand gun, run it thru the licensed gun database and find Fredtoast as the owner.  Cops come knocking on Fred's door.  In in ideal world, this makes perfect sense and I'm all for it....unfortunately this isn't an ideal world.  It all comes back to a mental health issue and unfortunately the Republicans in this state are defunding mental health programs and closing hospitals and county homes.  They are pretending mental health problems do not exist.  So I'm exceptionally curious to hear Trump say this is a mental health issue and what his plans are.  Because locally, those in his party, are turning away from those who are in need of shelters and general assistance. 

In that instance it would be on Fred to report it stolen I suppose.

[Vas Deferens]

(02-27-2018, 03:01 PM)BengalHawk62 Wrote: I like that, but what happens when I come to Fred's house and steal your 9MM.  Only to use said 9MM in a robbery and I kill someone.  I get away, but throw the gun down as I leave the bank.  The cops come pick up the hand gun, run it thru the licensed gun database and find Fredtoast as the owner.  Cops come knocking on Fred's door.  In in ideal world, this makes perfect sense and I'm all for it....unfortunately this isn't an ideal world.  It all comes back to a mental health issue and unfortunately the Republicans in this state are defunding mental health programs and closing hospitals and county homes.  They are pretending mental health problems do not exist.  So I'm exceptionally curious to hear Trump say this is a mental health issue and what his plans are.  Because locally, those in his party, are turning away from those who are in need of shelters and general assistance. 

Sounds like a combination of both would be the best answer.  But then we'd have to cut back on killing brown people half way around the globe with depleted uranium munitions in the name of corporate american interestes.  

Bottom line.  Had we spent more on our own people all these years, we wouldn't be in the position we currently are.

[*bfine32*]

(02-27-2018, 04:30 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Bottom line.  Had we spent more on our own people all these years, we wouldn't be in the position we currently are.

So you're against immigration?

[*bfine32*]

It does appear all 3 citizens of Rhode Island will be safer:

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/rhode-island-sets-red-flag-policy-florida-school-095704917--abc-news-topstories.html

Quote:Rhode Island established a new "red flag" policy on guns with an executive order that will help keep guns away from people who "could pose significant threats to public safety."

[Benton]

(02-27-2018, 04:41 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It does appear all 3 citizens of Rhode Island will be safer:

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/rhode-island-sets-red-flag-policy-florida-school-095704917--abc-news-topstories.html

Which is different than our current trend of saying “guns don’t kill people, people kill people”.... then making it easier for mentally ill and criminals to get guns.