Overstayed Visas

[BmorePat87]

(01-22-2016, 10:16 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: If you are going to strictly enforce.

99% suggests that they already are.

[fredtoast]

(01-22-2016, 01:07 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Isn't that what we pay all of the FBI, CIA, Homeland Security, and other employees of various government agencies dedicated to figure out? 

Yes, that is exactly what I was talking about when I mentioned the large cost of tracking millions of people.  It costs money because we have to pay people to do it.  Way to grasp a concept.

(01-22-2016, 01:56 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Technology does most of the work. 

What does this even mean?

What type of technology is free?

[fredtoast]

(01-22-2016, 10:19 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote:  I guess you could lie, which would make it impossible to get another visa when they finally do find you.   

So basically they use the honor system just like us.

This is your answer?  We can easily find all the people who overstay their visas because they will all tell us where they are?   No terrorists could ever figure a way around that roadblock.

[*bfine32*]

What folks do not realize is that there are already sting operations in place to return our neighbors to the South that have already over-extended their stay or arrived illegally.

The last on was on 11/05/2015:

http://fox8.com/2015/11/05/taco-bell-offering-free-breakfast-thanks-to-stolen-base-in-world-series/

[fredtoast]

(01-23-2016, 02:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What folks do not realize is that there are already sting operations in place to return our neighbors to the South that have already over-extended their stay or arrived illegally.

The last on was on 11/05/2015:

http://fox8.com/2015/11/05/taco-bell-offering-free-breakfast-thanks-to-stolen-base-in-world-series/

Wrong link?

[Rotobeast]

(01-23-2016, 04:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Wrong link?

I think it was a joke.

[StLucieBengal]

BmorePat Wrote:99% suggests that they already are.

Over Half a million is still too many unaccounted.

I realize I want tighter border policy than most here so it annoys me when we don't track these people. What I think is we should put these over staying people on bans to come here again .

[BmorePat87]

(01-23-2016, 07:42 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Over Half a million is still too many unaccounted.  

I realize I want tighter border policy than most here so it annoys me when we don't track these people.     What I think is we should put these over staying people on bans to come here again .

So you want to spend a lot more money tracking people because we are only 99% effective?

What would Rand and Ted say about all that spending?

[*bfine32*]

(01-23-2016, 05:46 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: I think it was a joke.

WHAT!!??!!

You think I linked Taco Bell giving away free stuff as a ruse for a sting to round up Mexicans for deportation as a joke?

Not to mention the giveaway was hinged on somebody stealing something.  

[GMDino]

http://www.newsweek.com/overstaying-visas-united-states-418273

Quote:AT LAST, HARD NUMBERS ABOUT OVERSTAYING VISAS

After several years of promising, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) this week finally delivered its first report documenting the number of “visa overstays”—travelers to the United States who come on a legal visa but then fail to leave when the lawful duration of their stay expires.

The good news is that roughly 99 percent of all visitors comply and go home when they are supposed to; the bad news is that, with more than 40 million visitors last year, the 1 percent who didn’t go home still adds up to nearly 500,000 overstayers.


That number was seized on by immigration critics who are always eager to confirm their belief that the United States has no control over its borders. Senator Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.), who chairs the Senate Judiciary immigration subcommittee, said the report “boggles the mind.”

Well no, it actually doesn’t. Indeed, the level of compliance is, if anything, astonishingly high. And by finally releasing the report, the Obama administration has offered up real numbers to refocus the debate on the right question—if 99 percent compliance is not good enough, what will it take to get to 100?

First, a little context. It has long been known that some significant percentage of the roughly 11 million unauthorized immigrants in the United States did not come illegally across the land borders, but instead arrived on a legal visa—usually a tourist or business visa—and then just never went home. The best academic estimates have suggested that number might be more than 40 percent.

But that was always an educated guess. The United States has never had the capability to track reliably whether those who arrived on legal visas—or who came from Europe under the Visa Waiver Program (VWP)—actually left when they were required to.

In 1996, Congress told the administration to begin such tracking, but progress was slow. U.S. airports were never configured to permit international passengers to be checked on departure. And at the land borders with Canada and Mexico, where a million people go back and forth each day, recording exits seemed all but impossible.

Successive administrations have chipped away at the problem, however. After the 9/11 attacks, in which several of the hijackers had overstayed, the government finally got serious.

The United States now requires airlines to report details on all departing international passengers, and information exchange with the governments of Canada, and to a lesser extent Mexico, provides similar data on the land borders.

For several years, the administration had promised to pull together all this data and report to Congress on the actual number of visa overstays. Reporting those numbers matters. Congress has been considering legislation, for example, that would allow new countries to enter the VWP if they have a visa overstay rate of no more than 3 percent.

The European Union is increasingly annoyed by what it sees as U.S. discrimination against EU members like Poland, Bulgaria and Romania that are excluded from the VWP, not to mention new legislation passed by Congress in December that bars Europeans with dual citizenship in Iraq, Syria or Iran from using the program. The EU has threatened to retaliate this year by denying visas to some U.S. travelers to Europe.

Based on the new data, if Congress moves to an overstay standard for the VWP, then Poland would be a lock for membership; the percentage of Poles who overstayed their visas in 2015 was just 1.49 percent, compared with a mere 0.65 percent for all VWP countries combined. Romania is just over 2 percent.

Those numbers will not be the ones highlighted by the administration’s critics, however. Instead, they have seized on the 11 percent overstay rate for Afghanistan and the 7 percent rate for Iraq, even though the total number of individuals is tiny.

The real question should be how to improve on what is already a fairly solid performance by DHS. Here, the critics really miss their mark.

Sessions, for example, wants vastly more resources dedicated to tracking down and deporting overstayers wherever they may happen to be in the country. Many in Congress remain eager for a “biometric” exit system that would match the fingerprints taken of arriving travelers with their departure. Both are expensive solutions that would not solve the problem.

While too little is still known about those who overstay, it’s a good guess that a fair number do it inadvertently and plan to leave at some point. Travel to the United States is confusing at best; many foreigners hold visas with a duration of 10 years, but each visit can be no more than six months.

Why not start with the easy remedies, like setting up automatic email notification to visa holders to remind them when their permitted stay in the country is about to expire? Or Congress could stiffen the penalties for overstaying, such as cancelling the visas of overstayers, to deter violations.

DHS already goes after any overstayer thought to pose a security threat. These simple compliance measures would shrink the haystack further, improving such targeted enforcement. And some overstayers are undoubtedly intending to stay and live as illegal immigrants, and as recent border crossers are rightly a priority for removal if and when they are found by immigration agents.

With the long overdue release of the report, there will certainly be many shrill warnings about the dangers of even a one percent overstay rate, and expressions of shock that not every visitor does exactly what they’re required to do.

But instead it should be seen as a starting point for continuing to develop sensible measures that improve visa compliance while maintaining the U.S. tradition as an open and welcoming country.

[Rotobeast]

(01-24-2016, 02:41 AM)bfine32 Wrote: WHAT!!??!!

You think I linked Taco Bell giving away free stuff as a ruse for a sting to round up Mexicans for deportation as a joke?

Not to mention the giveaway was hinged on somebody stealing something.  

Yes.

[StLucieBengal]

BmorePat Wrote:So you want to spend a lot more money tracking people because we are only 99% effective?

What would Rand and Ted say about all that spending?

There is a place for governemnt and its in ensuring our borders are secure and people visiting are where they say they will be. Both have advocated for more strict policy regarding this issue.

[StLucieBengal]

GMDi Wrote:http://www.newsweek.com/overstaying-visas-united-states-418273

So your defense of the issue is that there are some white countries who overstay and the EU is getting upset that we deny some dual citizens? I am sure the EU would be upset.... Since they have a ridiculous travel policy in Europe.

VWP is shouldn't make you immune to overstay. Penalties . It's not hard... If they overstay the. First offense is 1 year ban.... 2nd offense is a 6 year ban. 3rd offense is a lifetime ban.

[BmorePat87]

(01-25-2016, 10:58 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: There is a place for governemnt and its in ensuring our borders are secure and people visiting are where they say they will be.     Both have advocated for more strict policy regarding this issue.

What's funny is you either did not read your own link and didn't realize that we were 99% effective (so now you're arguing just to save face) or you honestly think it's feasible to have 100% of those issued visas not overstay their visas. 

So now that you're ok with spending a ton of money, what exactly do you propose to get that last 1%?

Let me guess "we're going to track them".  lol

[Vlad]

(01-24-2016, 10:24 AM)GMDino Wrote: http://www.newsweek.com/overstaying-visas-united-states-418273

With the long overdue release of the report, there will certainly be many shrill warnings about the dangers of even a one percent overstay rate, and expressions of shock that not every visitor does exactly what they’re required to do.

Here's my "shrill warning".


Let's see, we have 500,000 that overstayed their VISAS this year, next year it will be another 500,000, the following year another 500,000...
And that's only if the numbers stayed the same. I would guess that the numbers are increasing.

Amazing dinos copy and paste job didn't touch on that.

Though not attainable, a goal of 100% should be strived for.

Reminds me of something I ran across that  if 99.9% were good enough...


[*]Two million documents will be lost by the IRS this year.
[*]811,000 faulty rolls of 35mm film will be loaded this year.
[*]22,000 checks will be deducted from the wrong bank accounts in the next 60 minutes.
[*]1,314 phone calls will be misplaced by telecommunication services every minute.
[*]12 babies will be given to the wrong parents each day.
[*]268,500 defective tires will be shipped this year.
[*]14,208 defective personal computers will be shipped this year.
[*]103,260 income tax returns will be processed incorrectly this year.
[*]2,488,200 books will be shipped in the next 12 months with the wrong cover.
[*]5,517,200 cases of soft drinks produced in the next 12 months will be flatter than a bad tire.
[*]Two plane landings daily at O’Hare International Airport in Chicago will be unsafe.
[*]3,056 copies of tomorrow’s Wall Street Journal will be missing one of the three sections.
[*]18,322 pieces of mail will be mishandled in the next hour.
[*]291 pacemaker operations will be performed incorrectly this year.
[*]880,000 credit cards in circulation will turn out to have incorrect cardholder information on their magnetic strips.
[*]$9,690 will be spent today, tomorrow, next Thursday, and every day in the future on defective, often unsafe sporting equipment.
[*]55 malfunction automatic teller machines will be installed in the next 12 months.
[*]20,000 incorrect drug prescriptions will be written in the next 12 months.
[*]114,500 mismatched pairs of shoes will be shipped this year.
[*]$761,900 will be spent in the next 12 months on tapes and compact discs that won’t play.
[*]107 incorrect medical procedures will be performed by the end of the day today.
[*]315 entries in Webster’s Third New International Dictionary of the English Language will turn out to be misspelled

[GMDino]

(01-25-2016, 12:06 PM)Vlad Wrote: Here's my "shrill warning".


Let's see, we have 500,000 that overstayed their VISAS this year, next year it will be another 500,000, the following year another 500,000...
And that's only if the numbers stayed the same. I would guess that the numbers are increasing.

Amazing dinos copy and paste job didn't touch on that.

You are as bad at math as Lucy is at reading.

*IF* your magical example was true the percentage would change too.

(01-25-2016, 12:06 PM)Vlad Wrote: Though not attainable, a goal of 100% should be strived for.

They are striving...but, as YOU said its not attainable in this case.

As opposed to the drivel you posted after that.

[StLucieBengal]

BmorePat Wrote:What's funny is you either did not read your own link and didn't realize that we were 99% effective (so now you're arguing just to save face) or you honestly think it's feasible to have 100% of those issued visas not overstay their visas. 

So now that you're ok with spending a ton of money, what exactly do you propose to get that last 1%?

Let me guess "we're going to track them".  lol

I would be issuing a lot less visas. Restricting them from different parts of the world. You keep mentioning 1% like it's ok to let half a million people run around unaccounted. You probably actually do think this considering you support all the illegals here from Central America running around.

[BmorePat87]

(01-25-2016, 01:29 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I would be issuing a lot less visas.   Restricting them from different parts of the world.   You keep mentioning 1% like it's ok to let half a million people run around unaccounted.    You probably actually do think this considering you support all the illegals here from Central America running around.

Which visa programs are you cutting first?

Also, sweet straw man. 

[CKwi88]

(01-25-2016, 02:06 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Which visa programs are you cutting first?

Also, sweet straw man. 

The brown visa program 

[Rotobeast]

(01-25-2016, 03:04 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: The brown visa program 

I hadn't heard of that one
Is it for aggressive youth, in honor of Michael Brown ?