Protests erupt in Charlotte after police kill man; 12 officers hurt

[Bengalbug]

(09-22-2016, 09:21 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I was responding to someone who said that 99% of these are people not respecting cops. That's a good argument when we have guys charging cops, but it's a shitty argument when we're shooting guys sitting in their cars at traffic stops, standing with their arms raised against their car, and being tackled and tazed by two guys outside of a gas station.

I'm not even "anti-cop". I've only had one experience with an asshole cop, the rest have been great. I just think it's dumb to write it off as "well, they clearly just aren't respecting cops". I've argued for justifiable use of force before. I'm not some facebook social justice warrior crying foul when a kid with a gun aims it towards cops when they're chasing him because he robbed someone. 

I didn't say that actually, and if that is how you interpreted it, I'm sorry.

99% of these shootings include then"victim" putting themselves in the situation, not cooperating, or escalating the situation.

Let's take 100% of the shootings.

How many put themselves in the situation, how many pointed a weapon/gun at a cop, and how many didn't cooperate? Had these "victims" done any of those 3 we wouldn't be talking a bit shootons.

You need to put a little more responsibility on citizens.  We are grown ass adults making decisions in the real world.  Cops don't need to babysit our immature or irrational decisions.  

Again, police make mistakes and should be punished but I wouldn't want to be a cop
In this day and world.  Dead if you don't, damned if you do.

[BmorePat87]

(09-22-2016, 09:31 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: I didn't say that actually, and if that is how you interpreted it, I'm sorry.

99% of these shootings include then"victim" putting themselves in the situation, not cooperating, or escalating the situation.

Let's take 100% of the shootings.

How many put themselves in the situation, how many pointed a weapon/gun at a cop, and how many didn't cooperate? Had these "victims" done any of those 3 we wouldn't be talking a bit shootons.

You need to put a little more responsibility on citizens.  We are grown ass adults making decisions in the real world.  Cops don't need to babysit our immature or irrational decisions.  

Again, police make mistakes and should be punished but I wouldn't want to be a cop
In this day and world.  Dead if you don't, damned if you do.

(09-21-2016, 12:06 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Why can't we respect authority? Police officers have a tough job and if the people listened to their orders they wouldn't get shot.  Simple as that.  Are they wrong and do they make mistakes?  Absolutely, more than their fair share.  But I would be 99% of the shootings are due to citizens putting themselves in a situation where a shooting can occur

And police are not trained to shoot to injure... Never have been.

If you want to clarify your remarks, go ahead, but own what you said.

Like I said, your comments may have been relevant for Michael Brown, but they're less and less relevant as guys are getting shot in situations that suggest no resistance or threat occurred. 

[*michaelsean*]

(09-22-2016, 08:25 AM)GMDino Wrote: But you won't.  You'll attack the messenger.

The post I quoted:


The site I quoted showed multiple times where a person with a gun , sometimes aiming it at the police, did not get shot.  That leads to the questions about why other times the victim is shot.  I was directly addressing the supposition that having a gun is asking to get shot.  Clearly it is not.

Clearly the police do not shoot EVERY person they interact with, gun or no.

But that does not mean we can not question why a man in Tulsa is dead when he didn't have a weapon.  Or a man who told police he had a gun is dead.  Or a guy standing outside his car his dead.

But what you posted wasn't really questioning why some people get shot, and some people don't, it was showing where specifically white people didn't get shot.  You probably can't find as many incidents where a black man has a gun and doesn't get shot, because that doesn't make a good story.

[GMDino]

(09-22-2016, 09:47 AM)michaelsean Wrote: But what you posted wasn't really questioning why some people get shot, and some people don't, it was showing where specifically white people didn't get shot.  You probably can't find as many incidents where a black man has a gun and doesn't get shot, because that doesn't make a good story.

And if you take race out of it, which so many want to do, does that matter?

I did come across that because in another post I responded to the question was about 5000 white guys with guns.  So the search brought me to the next site about white people not being shot.

Either way these were incidents with guns being aimed at police officers....and no one died.  this is why when someone IS shot and killed it needs extra scrutiny whether the officers like it or not.

And I've searched just now for stories of black people with guns not shot by police. I figured at least Beirtbart would have a dozen or so just to prove a point. None yet. And THAT doesn't mean it never happens. Just means I haven't found a story yet.

[Bengalbug]

(09-22-2016, 09:44 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: If you want to clarify your remarks, go ahead, but own what you said.

Like I said, your comments may have been relevant for Michael Brown, but they're less and less relevant as guys are getting shot in situations that suggest no resistance or threat occurred. 

I didn't say anything about 99% of shootings are due to disrespect.  I said 99#% are due to
"Victims" putting themselves into the situation (illegal situation, threatening a cop, notnlistening & escalating)

I stand by that comment and hope you don't try and twist my words.

We can agree to disagree at this point, I think citizens should hold themselves more accountable.  You think police should allow citizens to do whT they want and not listen.... Clearly we see things different  



(Yesterday, 11:06 AM)Bengalbug Wrote:  [url=http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Protests-erupt-in-Charlotte-after-police-kill-man-12-officers-hurt?pid=268364#pid268364][/url]Why can't we respect authority? Police officers have a tough job and if the people listened to their orders they wouldn't get shot.  Simple as that.  Are they wrong and do they make mistakes?  Absolutely, more than their fair share.  But I would be 99% of the shootings are due to citizens putting themselves in a situation where a shooting can occur

[*michaelsean*]

(09-22-2016, 09:57 AM)GMDino Wrote: And if you take race out of it, which so many want to do, does that matter?

I did come across that because in another post I responded to the question was about 5000 white guys with guns.  So the search brought me to the next site about white people not being shot.

Either way these were incidents with guns being aimed at police officers....and no one died.  this is why when someone IS shot and killed it needs extra scrutiny whether the officers like it or not.

And I've searched just now for stories of black people with guns not shot by police.  I figured at least Beirtbart would have a dozen or so just to prove a point.  None yet.  And THAT doesn't mean it never happens.  Just means I haven't found a story yet.

What I'm saying is if someone wants to have that conversation, then don't begin it (the authors) by pointing out, guess what guess what, it was a white guy that didn't get shot. 

[GMDino]

(09-22-2016, 10:03 AM)michaelsean Wrote: What I'm saying is if someone wants to have that conversation, then don't begin it (the authors) by pointing out, guess what guess what, it was a white guy that didn't get shot. 

Well that was the point of their article.  That in all those situation where people are saying "Hey, you pull a gun on the cops you can expect to get shot" only one of those people did.

Yes they are playing the "they were all white" game also...but they were.

So, again, let's throw race out:  Why do you suppose those 8 people didn't get killed for pulling a gun on the officers?

[BmorePat87]

(09-22-2016, 10:01 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: I didn't say anything about 99% of shootings are due to disrespect.  I said 99#% are due to
"Victims" putting themselves into the situation (illegal situation, threatening a cop, notnlistening & escalating)

I stand by that comment and hope you don't try and twist my words.

We can agree to disagree at this point, I think citizens should hold themselves more accountable.  You think police should allow citizens to do whT they want and not listen.... Clearly we see things different  

You don't want me to twist your words by taking them at face value... so your response is to completely make up an argument.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-22-2016, 08:25 AM)GMDino Wrote: But you won't.  You'll attack the messenger.

No, I attack the messengers point.  When the messenger has a clear bias, as you obviously do, that obviously affects their argument.  You have only your buddy Fred to blame, he already stated if something has happened once you can assume it just happened.  You've posted blatantly anti-LEO posts, so using Fred's logic I can accuse you of it at any time.  Sorry, I didn't make these rules.

Quote:The site I quoted showed multiple times where a person with a gun , sometimes aiming it at the police, did not get shot.  That leads to the questions about why other times the victim is shot.  I was directly addressing the supposition that having a gun is asking to get shot.  Clearly it is not.

A point I directly addressed.  Why did the site in question use only examples with white people in them?  Do you honestly think no black person with a gun has ever been handled the same way?  They have an agenda and you have an agenda.  Cherry picking incidents doesn't prove a point, it only proves bias.

Quote:Clearly the police do not shoot EVERY person they interact with, gun or no.

I'll refer you to the questions above then. Why the cherry picking of events?  Agenda maybe?

Quote:But that does not mean we can not question why a man in Tulsa is dead when he didn't have a weapon.  Or a man who told police he had a gun is dead.  Or a guy standing outside his car his dead.

No one said you couldn't.  Please find one post in which anyone has said this topic is off limits.  The closest you can get is my saying a decision cannot be made without all the facts.  Fred, a person who claims to be a lawyer but fails to understand basic legal principles, wanted the officer arrested on the spot.  Pointing out the fallacy of that argument is not an attack or trying to make the topic forbidden, it's simply pointing out a bad argument.  You seem to get disagreement confused with attacks on a regular basis.  I guess I can see where these college kids are getting it from.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-22-2016, 10:10 AM)GMDino Wrote: So, again, let's throw race out:  Why do you suppose those 8 people didn't get killed for pulling a gun on the officers?

To answer that you'd have to know the specifics of the situation.  That, however, is not important to your lame site or, apparently, you.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-22-2016, 09:21 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I was responding to someone who said that 99% of these are people not respecting cops. That's a good argument when we have guys charging cops, but it's a shitty argument when we're shooting guys sitting in their cars at traffic stops, standing with their arms raised against their car, and being tackled and tazed by two guys outside of a gas station.

I'm not even "anti-cop". I've only had one experience with an asshole cop, the rest have been great. I just think it's dumb to write it off as "well, they clearly just aren't respecting cops". I've argued for justifiable use of force before. I'm not some facebook social justice warrior crying foul when a kid with a gun aims it towards cops when they're chasing him because he robbed someone. 

You're confusing someone claiming it's a good idea and works the vast majority of the time versus saying it never fails.  

[GMDino]

(09-22-2016, 11:48 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: To answer that you'd have to know the specifics of the situation.  That, however, is not important to your lame site or, apparently, you.

Let's pretend you could make assumptions...not that that ever happens...what kind of situation would there have to be to have a person pull a gun, aim it at the police and NOT get shot vs a guy walking back to his vehicle with his hands up and no weapon.  Just for example.

[GMDino]

(09-22-2016, 11:46 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: No, I attack the messengers point.  When the messenger has a clear bias, as you obviously do, that obviously affects their argument.  You have only your buddy Fred to blame, he already stated if something has happened once you can assume it just happened.  You've posted blatantly anti-LEO posts, so using Fred's logic I can accuse you of it at any time.  Sorry, I didn't make these rules.

Assumptions.

I posted eight events that actually happened.  If you do not like the page source feel free to click any of the links to the actual stories.

(09-22-2016, 11:46 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: A point I directly addressed.  Why did the site in question use only examples with white people in them?  Do you honestly think no black person with a gun has ever been handled the same way?  They have an agenda and you have an agenda.  Cherry picking incidents doesn't prove a point, it only proves bias.

I throw out an old chestnut here that you might remember:  I already addressed this. 

(09-22-2016, 11:46 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I'll refer you to the questions above then. Why the cherry picking of events?  Agenda maybe?

Please see the answer above.

(09-22-2016, 11:46 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: No one said you couldn't.  Please find one post in which anyone has said this topic is off limits.  The closest you can get is my saying a decision cannot be made without all the facts.  Fred, a person who claims to be a lawyer but fails to understand basic legal principles, wanted the officer arrested on the spot.  Pointing out the fallacy of that argument is not an attack or trying to make the topic forbidden, it's simply pointing out a bad argument.  You seem to get disagreement confused with attacks on a regular basis.  I guess I can see where these college kids are getting it from.

Thanks for not attacking the messenger.  

My point is, and was, just because the eight examples were not black people that doesn't stop the questions from being asked.  That was a direct attempt to REMOVE race from the issue but that seems to be impossible because people want to focus on the race of the eight people NOT shot.

I said remove it and provide answers.  Instead it was continually brought up again.

If you have examples of black people aiming guns at cops and not being shot please feel free to share.

[*bfine32*]

(09-22-2016, 10:01 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: I didn't say anything about 99% of shootings are due to disrespect.  I said 99#% are due to
"Victims" putting themselves into the situation (illegal situation, threatening a cop, notnlistening & escalating)

I stand by that comment and hope you don't try and twist my words.

You're relatively ew here so: It doesn't matter at this point. A member of the LOL has changed your saying 99% of people shot put themselves in that situation to you saying 99% don't respect cops.

You CANNOT say that is not what I said and the onus is on you to defend what they say you said.

[*bfine32*]

Just in case anyone wants the Officer's story in the Tulsa incident:

https://gma.yahoo.com/tulsa-police-officer-shares-her-side-story-terence-225515468--abc-news-topstories.html#

[Vas Deferens]

(09-22-2016, 01:42 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Just in case anyone wants the Officer's story in the Tulsa incident:

https://gma.yahoo.com/tulsa-police-officer-shares-her-side-story-terence-225515468--abc-news-topstories.html#

I find it interesting that the video just starts out of nowhere.  Did something trigger it starting all of a sudden, or is that all they released?

[*bfine32*]

(09-22-2016, 02:21 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: I find it interesting that the video just starts out of nowhere.  Did something trigger it starting all of a sudden, or is that all they released?

I believe they said if was from the dashcam of a car that arrived late on the scene.

[Vas Deferens]

(09-22-2016, 02:29 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I believe they said if was from the dashcam of a car that arrived late on the scene.

Got it.  Makes sense.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(09-22-2016, 10:01 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: I didn't say anything about 99% of shootings are due to disrespect.  I said 99#% are due to
"Victims" putting themselves into the situation (illegal situation, threatening a cop, notnlistening & escalating)

I stand by that comment and hope you don't try and twist my words.

We can agree to disagree at this point, I think citizens should hold themselves more accountable.  You think police should allow citizens to do whT they want and not listen.... Clearly we see things different  



(Yesterday, 11:06 AM)Bengalbug Wrote:  [url=http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Protests-erupt-in-Charlotte-after-police-kill-man-12-officers-hurt?pid=268364#pid268364][/url]Why can't we respect authority? Police officers have a tough job and if the people listened to their orders they wouldn't get shot.  Simple as that.  Are they wrong and do they make mistakes?  Absolutely, more than their fair share.  But I would be 99% of the shootings are due to citizens putting themselves in a situation where a shooting can occur

Kinda like claiming a women wouldn't get raped if she didn't dress like that?

[Millhouse]

Interesting take CNN did between Tulsa and Charlotte, and how the reactions of anger differed. What makes it interesting is that the Tulsa shooting was of an unarmed black man by a white officer. Where as in Charlotte it was an alledged armed black man by a black officer.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/22/us/tulsa-charlotte-shooting-protests/index.html

This was Charlotte...





And this was Tulsa...