Seattle and the minimum wage increase

[GMDino]

After seeing the douchiest card over in the Political Cartoon / Meme post I got to wondering if the minimum wage increase had really hurt Seattle. Since there's apparently a gorup no tipping just to make...uh, a point?


http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2015/03/22/minimum-wage-increase-killing-seattle-restaurants-anatomy-of-a-lie-from-inside-the-bubble/

You can read it there...its too long to copy and paste.

tl;dr version? Everything is going well so far.

I guess if you want to use the argument that since they got a raise you don't need tip that's all well and good. But the tone of the image in that post was one that, to me, seemed to be more: You don't DESERVE to make more and I want to make sure you know it.

[SunsetBengal]

(07-20-2015, 08:09 PM)GMDino Wrote: After seeing the douchiest card over in the Political Cartoon / Meme post I got to wondering if the minimum wage increase had really hurt Seattle.  Since there's apparently a gorup no tipping just to make...uh, a point?


http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2015/03/22/minimum-wage-increase-killing-seattle-restaurants-anatomy-of-a-lie-from-inside-the-bubble/

You can read it there...its too long to copy and paste.

tl;dr version?  Everything is going well so far.

I guess if you want to use the argument that since they got a raise you don't need tip that's all well and good.  But the tone of the image in that post was one that, to me, seemed to be more: You don't DESERVE to make more and I want to make sure you know it.

If those places keep raising the prices, eventually those minimum wagers won't have a job to complain about the poor tips at..

[GMDino]

(07-20-2015, 08:16 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: If those places keep raising the prices, eventually those minimum wagers won't have a job to complain about the poor tips at..

4-5% increase.

No restaurants closed due to the wage increase.

And workers making a good wage.

Seems like a fair cop.

[SunsetBengal]

(07-20-2015, 08:20 PM)GMDino Wrote: 4-5% increase.

No restaurants closed due to the wage increase.

And workers making a good wage.

Seems like a fair cop.

Really?  Because in SF, where the minimum wage is only going up in steps to $15, over the next couple years, Chipotle has already raised their prices by 10.5%

http://www.youngcons.com/san-francisco-raises-minimum-wage-14-guess-how-chipotle-responded/

[GMDino]

(07-20-2015, 08:54 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Really?  Because in SF, where the minimum wage is only going up in steps to $15, over the next couple years, Chipotle has already raised their prices by 10.5%

http://www.youngcons.com/san-francisco-raises-minimum-wage-14-guess-how-chipotle-responded/

Sound like they might have over-corrected there.

Another article showed that even the restaurant owners that were in FAVOR of the increase worried that their price increases might hurt bushiness.  I guess the answer would be not increase that much.

[SunsetBengal]

(07-20-2015, 08:59 PM)GMDino Wrote: Sound like they might have over-corrected there.

Another article showed that even the restaurant owners that were in FAVOR of the increase worried that their price increases might hurt bushiness.  I guess the answer would be not increase that much.

Your article said this about the scene in Oakland.

Quote:The wage increase puts more money in the pockets of most restaurant workers, but to keep pace with higher costs, some restaurants have upped menu prices by as much as 20 percent. Others have tacked on a mandatory service charge to the bill and eliminated tips for servers, potentially reducing the amount they earn.

That statement, from your article, would seem to coincide with the snide card from the group in Seattle.  Would it not?

Edit: Heck, for that matter, all this really means is that now even the lame-o servers that used to get stiffed are now making the same as the ones with the booming personalities of bright shining stars, that used to rake in the tip money hand over fist. They, now have to suffer a severe pay cut... How fair is that?

[JustWinBaby]

(07-20-2015, 08:54 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Really?  Because in SF, where the minimum wage is only going up in steps to $15, over the next couple years, Chipotle has already raised their prices by 10.5%

http://www.youngcons.com/san-francisco-raises-minimum-wage-14-guess-how-chipotle-responded/

It's stepping up to $15 in Seattle, as well.  Currently at $11...GMDino is jumping the gun a bit here.

[GMDino]

(07-20-2015, 09:05 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Your article said this about the scene in Oakland.


That statement, from your article, would seem to coincide with the snide card from the group in Seattle.  Would it not?

Edit:  Heck, for that matter, all this really means is that now even the lame-o servers that used to get stiffed are now making the same as the ones with the booming personalities of bright shining stars, that used to rake in the tip money hand over fist.  They, now have to suffer a severe pay cut...  How fair is that?

Well I started talking about Seattle and you brought up SF.  The article was about that area.

I still think its just a dbag move that you would hand a card to a guy who went from $3.00 to $11 that he doesn't deserve that.  Just so you can save  5 cents on every $1 you spend.

And, again, so far it hasn't hurt the way it was predicted.  That could change or course.  The entire economy could tank also.  

[SunsetBengal]

(07-20-2015, 09:43 PM)GMDino Wrote: Well I started talking about Seattle and you brought up SF.  The article was about that area.

I still think its just a dbag move that you would hand a card to a guy who went from $3.00 to $11 that he doesn't deserve that.  Just so you can save  5 cents on every $1 you spend.

And, again, so far it hasn't hurt the way it was predicted.  That could change or course.  The entire economy could tank also.  

Keep in mind, just like those raises in pay are coming in increments, those jumps in prices will parallel.  I predict that reduced business will be the end result.

[GMDino]

(07-20-2015, 09:51 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Keep in mind, just like those raises in pay are coming in increments, those jumps in prices will parallel.  I predict that reduced business will be the end result.

Perhaps...but so far no.  And that is a good sign.

[Johnny Cupcakes]

If McDonalds employees want $15 per hour, they can easily be replaced with an iPad.

I do agree that minimum wage is not enough to support a family. I don't think anyone would disagree with that. It wasn't meant to support a family though. 30,000 dollars per year for a high school kid to **** up a cheeseburger is insane.

[Ryuko]

(07-20-2015, 10:01 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: If McDonalds employees want $15 per hour, they can easily be replaced with an iPad.

I do agree that minimum wage is not enough to support a family.  I don't think anyone would disagree with that.  It wasn't meant to support a family though.  30,000 dollars per year for a high school kid to **** up a cheeseburger is insane.

I agree.

Fast food has become remarkably overpriced in the past 3-5 years. McDonald's was one of the last holdouts, but they've recently gotten rid of their dollar menu. Due to the rise in prices, I've simply stopped going. If I'm desperate enough to pay $7-8 for a burger-and-fry meal, I'm going to have it served to me somewhere the forks aren't plastic. I still tip, mind you, but I find myself increasingly annoyed by the "suggested amounts" they print on receipts. 21%? I can't recall having service to justify that outside a Jeff Ruby steakhouse.

[*michaelsean*]

(07-20-2015, 09:43 PM)GMDino Wrote: Well I started talking about Seattle and you brought up SF.  The article was about that area.

I still think its just a dbag move that you would hand a card to a guy who went from $3.00 to $11 that he doesn't deserve that.  Just so you can save  5 cents on every $1 you spend.

And, again, so far it hasn't hurt the way it was predicted.  That could change or course.  The entire economy could tank also.  

There's a group that did that years ago-maybe still do. It said they didn't tip because the waiters were being paid unfair wages and they wanted to force restaurants to pay more. So thoughtful. It was for their own good.

[GMDino]

(07-20-2015, 10:44 PM)michaelsean Wrote: There's a group that did that years ago-maybe still do.  It said they didn't tip because the waiters were being paid unfair wages and they wanted to force restaurants to pay more.  So thoughtful.  It was for their own good.

Ha!  That's just as bad! 

[SunsetBengal]

(07-20-2015, 10:44 PM)michaelsean Wrote: There's a group that did that years ago-maybe still do.  It said they didn't tip because the waiters were being paid unfair wages and they wanted to force restaurants to pay more.  So thoughtful.  It was for their own good.

Ah, the old "I'm going to make you suffer now, but you'll thank me later". 

[Johnny Cupcakes]

(07-20-2015, 10:01 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: If McDonalds employees want $15 per hour, they can easily be replaced with an iPad.

I do agree that minimum wage is not enough to support a family.  I don't think anyone would disagree with that.  It wasn't meant to support a family though.  30,000 dollars per year for a high school kid to **** up a cheeseburger is insane.

I will add on top of this statement that for every teenager that doesn't deserve $15/hour, there is a skilled tradesman with nothing more than a high school diploma that is massively underpaid. 
I worked landscaping a couple of summers in high school, and there were adult men there making 9 bucks per hour to try to support their families.  Of course, after work, they'd go deliver pizzas to pay the bills.  Landscaping for $9/hour is maybe more insane than making mcflurries for $15/hour.  In my line of work, I come across a lot of guys that do a great job in really important positions that are underpaid.  The UAW and such will sometimes protect these workers and pay them a worthy wage, but all too often, I see dudes slave away all day for next to nothing.

It's a hard thing to balance.

[StLucieBengal]

Minimum wage isn't there to raise a family. It's nothing more than intro jobs. Raising it is ridiculous. Your not meant to keep those jobs. That's why they pay poorly so your forced to gain more skills.

[SunsetBengal]

(07-20-2015, 11:04 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: I will add on top of this statement that for every teenager that doesn't deserve $15/hour, there is a skilled tradesman with nothing more than a high school diploma that is massively underpaid. 
I worked landscaping a couple of summers in high school, and there were adult men there making 9 bucks per hour to try to support their families.  Of course, after work, they'd go deliver pizzas to pay the bills.  Landscaping for $9/hour is maybe more insane than making mcflurries for $15/hour.  In my line of work, I come across a lot of guys that do a great job in really important positions that are underpaid.  The UAW and such will sometimes protect these workers and pay them a worthy wage, but all too often, I see dudes slave away all day for next to nothing.

It's a hard thing to balance.

I agree, JC.  Fast food, and even tipped employees don't need $15.  Pretty ridiculous.  However, when you speak of the skilled labor trades, I know exactly what you are speaking of.  When I ran the tile crew, I started green newbies at $10, guys with some experience at $12.  Guys that could cut the muster, usually ended up around $15.  A rare few, that were hard workers and skilled individuals, I rose up as high as $18-$20.

Then, when the banks crashed, construction went down, I began my new career in Surveying at $15.  I worked that wage for 2 1/2 years, before they raised me up to $20.  Since then, I get the regular 4% raise each year (they copy NC DOT).  Now, I will be eligible to test for State Licensing after the 11th of August (my apprenticeship time will be completed), and that will lead to a serious raise (should I pass).

However, the point I wanted to make is that I understand how it is to be on both sides of the employer/employee wage scenario.  And let me tell you, I worked all the variety of minimum wage jobs, as a teenager.  And I can also say that none of those jobs is worth the same wage that folks are working their tails off for, to earn double the federal minimum.

[Benton]

I don't know the cost of living there, so a lot of it depends on that. $15 in western Kentucky isn't a bad wage. You can get a decent house, car and raise a kid. I'm guessing it doesnt go that far in Seattle.

But, overall, if the hourly wage offsets the tip, then I don't have a problem with people tipping. I've always had an issue that people think it's expected. If I get bad service, I tip less or not at all. If I get good service (or she's hot) I tip more. If the waitress is making $15 an hour, I'm probably not tipping much at all. And if the service is bad or the food is bad, I'll let somebody know instead of just not leaving a tip and hoping it's better next time.

That said, we generally grossly underpay our service industry workers. It's not so much about them not having the skills or education, it's about the ability to put up with the crap or the pressure. As an employer, my employees making a good impression and being willing to take some hot headed customers means a lot.

[Beaker]

(07-20-2015, 10:01 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: I do agree that minimum wage is not enough to support a family.   It wasn't meant to support a family though. 

Exactly. You start out at minimum wage and work your way up. You start a family after you have climbed the ladder a bit...if you are smart.