Shutdown!

[Belsnickel]

(01-22-2018, 02:46 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Since the Executive Branch spends the money, it's customary for the President to submit a proposed budget. Much like most legislation, the President puts on his "Chief Legislator" hat and works with Congress as all legislation requires his approval, budgets included. This is literally a concept I teach every single year and is then assessed by the state of Maryland in our graduation requirement Government High School Assessment.

Customary, but not required. The Executive's budget didn't start until Wilson, I believe.

[BmorePat87]

(01-22-2018, 02:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So you teach your class every single year that it's the Executive Branch's responsibility to work out a Federal Budget? Was Schumer one of your students? I always thought in was the job of the Legislative Branch to work out the Federal Budget. You learn something new everyday on here.  

It's their role, yes. This is common knowledge. I'm glad I could enlighten you. 

(01-22-2018, 02:53 PM)bfine32 Wrote: They did this without the President? Strange...

Smart move. Now he can't reject it. Would have been nice to have never gotten to this point, but we don't have a politician in the White House. 

[GMDino]

(01-22-2018, 02:53 PM)bfine32 Wrote: They did this without the President? Strange...

All seriousness aside we'll see if the POTUS agrees to the deal.  Hard to say with him.

[BmorePat87]

(01-22-2018, 02:55 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Customary, but not required. The Executive's budget didn't start until Wilson, I believe.

With the exception of a few Presidents like Lincoln, it's hard to compare the Executive Branch in the 20th and 21st century to it in the 18th or 19th. The Presidency post FDR is a whole different beast. 

Regardless, Trump submitted his budget like past President, submitted his tax plan ideas, and lobbied Congress to give him what he wants. In 8 days, we'll see him go in front of Congress and propose more legislative action. 

[Belsnickel]

(01-22-2018, 03:04 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: With the exception of a few Presidents like Lincoln, it's hard to compare the Executive Branch in the 20th and 21st century to it in the 18th or 19th. The Presidency post FDR is a whole different beast. 

Regardless, Trump submitted his budget like past President, submitted his tax plan ideas, and lobbied Congress to give him what he wants. In 8 days, we'll see him go in front of Congress and propose more legislative action. 

Well, if you can call what he submitted a budget. But that's a whole different story.

[*bfine32*]

(01-22-2018, 02:59 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: It's their role, yes. This is common knowledge. I'm glad I could enlighten you. 

Meh, I thought the Executive Branch's role was to recommend/request a budget and then Congress worked it out. Thanks for the enlightenment; however, I hope you don't mind if I do a little more research on the process of Federal Budget. 

[Belsnickel]

(01-22-2018, 02:50 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: The Senate voted just now to begin debate on a bipartisan short term fix. McConnell and Schumer have agreed to push all immigration talk to next month.

More kicking the can down the road. Plus, McConnell can't be trusted in all of this.

[BmorePat87]

(01-22-2018, 03:06 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Well, if you can call what he submitted a budget. But that's a whole different story.

We've lowered the bar for him. 

[BmorePat87]

(01-22-2018, 03:06 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Meh, I thought the Executive Branch's role was to recommend/request a budget and then Congress worked it out. Thanks for the enlightenment; however, I hope you don't mind if I do a little more research on the process of Federal Budget. 

This is why their advisors and the Legislative Affairs Office of the White House go to Congress every day and are involved in talks on nearly all pieces of legislation. Unless you have veto proof support behind a bill, nothing gets done in Congress without the Executive's approval. It's a crucial check and balance. 

But, please, do more research. Never stop learning. 

[*bfine32*]

(01-22-2018, 03:07 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: More kicking the can down the road. Plus, McConnell can't be trusted in all of this.

My issue is that both sides are now taking their victory lap; while absolutely nothing has been done.

No long-term budget

No resolution on illegal immigration


Now I do appreciate getting a day off, but funding only for 3 weeks does absolutely nothing for me moving forward. Believe it or not, we have to forecast out further than 3 weeks some time.

I do think we'll (this forum) will be able to now have a discussion on immigration reform; however, I can see it going south quickly in Congress and I'm not sure it will all be because Mitch cannot be trusted. 

[*Nately120*]

(01-22-2018, 03:06 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Meh, I thought the Executive Branch's role was to recommend/request a budget and then Congress worked it out. Thanks for the enlightenment; however, I hope you don't mind if I do a little more research on the process of Federal Budget. 

I must say it's refreshing to see people attempting to learn more about out a mere year after "doesn't know anything about politics" became the slam-dunk reason to make a man president.

[*michaelsean*]

(01-22-2018, 02:54 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Hey!  For all you know you might have to respect me for doing what I do and/or watch out for people doing things to the flag in case it disrespects me!

It would be less about respecting you, and more about disrespecting someone who put you within swinging distance of something involving national security.

[*Nately120*]

(01-22-2018, 03:14 PM)michaelsean Wrote: It would be less about respecting you, and more about disrespecting someone who put you within swinging distance of something involving national security.

The only thing that would have prevented me from getting the job I have now is if I failed to pay federal taxes, or if I had allegations of criminal actions pending against me.  Yes, the irony of that is staggering.

[*bfine32*]

(01-22-2018, 03:11 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: This is why their advisors and the Legislative Affairs Office of the White House go to Congress every day and are involved in talks on nearly all pieces of legislation. Unless you have veto proof support behind a bill, nothing gets done in Congress without the Executive's approval. It's a crucial check and balance. 

But, please, do more research. Never stop learning. 

Now checks and balances I understand that process. Like I said, I just thought it was the Legislative Branch's responsibility to work out a budget. Guess I would do poorly on that Maryland state exam thingy. I appears I should have blamed Obama after all for that 2013 shutdown; I always wrongly blamed the GOP. 

[*bfine32*]

(01-22-2018, 03:14 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I must say it's refreshing to see people attempting to learn more about out a mere year after "doesn't know anything about politics" became the slam-dunk reason to make a man president.

The more you know, the more you grow, 

[*Nately120*]

(01-22-2018, 03:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The more you know, the more you grow, 

The less you know, the more you blow?

[BmorePat87]

(01-22-2018, 03:19 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Now checks and balances I understand that process. Like I said, I just thought it was the Legislative Branch's responsibility to work out a budget. Guess I would do poorly on that Maryland state exam thingy. I appears I should have blamed Obama after all for that 2013 shutdown; I always wrongly blamed the GOP. 

You said "role" in your first post. I noticed that word changed in the last one, so let's make sure we're not moving goal posts here. Of course Congress has a responsibility to work out a budget. 

The President has a role in the budget process, though. Every budget will involve him somehow, before, during, and after the process. Every year he lines out to Congress what he wants them to do and what areas he wants to focus on. He submits his budget. He and his team of legislative advisors work with Congress to guide legislation and its language. Unless it has veto proof support, the no budget can be passed without the President's approval, so every budget will either be signed or vetoed by the President. Every President since Nixon has lobbied for the restoration of their power to impound funds after budgets have passed. It would be silly to suggest the President doesn't play a role in it. 

[*bfine32*]

(01-22-2018, 03:43 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: You said "role" in your first post. I noticed that word changed in the last one, so let's make sure we're not moving goal posts here. Of course Congress has a responsibility to work out a budget. 

The President has a role in the budget process, though. Every budget will involve him somehow, before, during, and after the process. Every year he lines out to Congress what he wants them to do and what areas he wants to focus on. He submits his budget. He and his team of legislative advisors work with Congress to guide legislation and its language. Unless it has veto proof support, the no budget can be passed without the President's approval, so every budget will either be signed or vetoed by the President. Every President since Nixon has lobbied for the restoration of their power to impound funds after budgets have passed. It would be silly to suggest the President doesn't play a role in it. 

There's a difference between having "a role" in the process and it being "your role"  to workout a budget. But I'm gonna leave this one alone and let others figure out what was being said. 

[BmorePat87]

(01-22-2018, 03:56 PM)bfine32 Wrote: There's a difference between having "a role" in the process and it being "your role"  to workout a budget. But I'm gonna leave this one alone and let others figure out what was being said. 

That's probably for the best. We don't need to play a round of "that's not what I said". 

[BoomerFan]

So we're back for the time being but if people were looking for a source of information on the topic this is a pretty good thread:

https://www.reddit.com/r/NeutralPolitics/comments/7rybyq/the_us_government_shut_down_on_january_19th_2018/

And I'd recommend the entire sub for even-handed information on politics. They have some pretty strict rules about top level posts being sourced. And they delete a great deal of posts that don't abide by the rules. Very good reading:

https://www.reddit.com/r/NeutralPolitics/