Shutdown!

[*bfine32*]

(01-22-2018, 06:05 PM)BoomerFan Wrote: So we're back for the time being but if people were looking for a source of information on the topic this is a pretty good thread:

https://www.reddit.com/r/NeutralPolitics/comments/7rybyq/the_us_government_shut_down_on_january_19th_2018/

And I'd recommend the entire sub for even-handed information on politics. They have some pretty strict rules about top level posts being sourced. And delete a great deal of posts that don't abide by the rules. Very good reading:

https://www.reddit.com/r/NeutralPolitics/

How are they about personal insults? 

[BoomerFan]

(01-22-2018, 07:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: How are they about personal insults? 

I'm pretty sure that doesn't fly at all.

[Belsnickel]

(01-22-2018, 07:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: How are they about personal insults? 

(01-22-2018, 07:34 PM)BoomerFan Wrote: I'm pretty sure that doesn't fly at all.

I'm actually a subscriber to that sub, as well. Here is the sidebar info for ya, bfine:

Quote:Comment Rules

We expect the following from all users:

1) Be courteous. Demeaning language, sarcasm, rudeness or hostility towards another user will get your comment removed. Repeated violations may result in a ban.

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4) Address the arguments, not the person. The subject of your sentence should be "the evidence" or "this source" or some other noun directly related to the topic of conversation. "You" statements are suspect.
Submission Rules

All posts are reviewed by the moderators for compliance with these rules prior to appearing online:

A) Ask a specific political question. We do not allow overly broad questions, solicitations of pure opinion, surveys, requests to explain public opinion or media coverage, posts about other subreddits, or meta posts.

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C) Outline the issue well. Give more than just a headline. Provide some background information.

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[StLucieBengal]

Democrats caved on the shutdown and they will eventually cave on immigration. The Harvard/Harris poll that came out shows the vast majority wants exactly what Trump and Cotton are pushing.

[BmorePat87]

(01-24-2018, 08:43 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Democrats caved on the shutdown and they will eventually cave on immigration.   The Harvard/Harris poll that came out shows the vast majority wants exactly what Trump and Cotton are pushing.

That same poll also has the vast majority saying they want citizenship for Dreamers. I have a feeling Breitbart left that part out... lol

[StLucieBengal]

(01-24-2018, 10:26 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: That same poll also has the vast majority saying they want citizenship for Dreamers. I have a feeling Breitbart left that part out... lol

And a border wall. Drastically limited legal immigration, point system, end of chain migration, and end to the diversity lottery.

You left all that out. Which is exactly what Trump and Cotton have been pushing.

Heck DACA people have one purpose to be used to enact the immigration policy the public desperately wants.

[BmorePat87]

(01-24-2018, 10:57 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: And a border wall.   Drastically limited legal immigration,  point system, end of chain migration, and end to the diversity lottery.  

You left all that out.   Which is exactly what Trump and Cotton have been pushing.

Heck DACA people have one purpose to be used to enact the immigration policy the public desperately wants.

I didn't realize I had to repeat exactly what you said in your post...

People, in general, want a partial wall, a reduction in legal immigration, prefer prioritizing skills over family, and want Dreamers to become citizens. 

The Graham-Durbin proposal gives some funding for a wall, a decrease in immigration numbers, ends the diversity lottery and limits chain migration to parents of Dreamers, and gives green cards to Dreamers.

It's a fix that Americans would support, but it doesn't meet the requirements that Stephen Miller is whispering in Trump's ear. 

[GMDino]

What's most important, apparently, is that the "Dems caved".

So much for compromise.

So anyway...are the Republicans putting into the bill how Mexico will pay for the wall?  Or will they just raise my taxes back up for the vanity project?

[StLucieBengal]

(01-24-2018, 11:14 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I didn't realize I had to repeat exactly what you said in your post...

People, in general, want a partial wall, a reduction in legal immigration, prefer prioritizing skills over family, and want Dreamers to become citizens. 

The Graham-Durbin proposal gives some funding for a wall, a decrease in immigration numbers, ends the diversity lottery and limits chain migration to parents of Dreamers, and gives green cards to Dreamers.

It's a fix that Americans would support, but it doesn't meet the requirements that Stephen Miller is whispering in Trump's ear. 

That’s not even close to what graham and Durbin were doing.

Moved the diversity visas to another group. Which is not cancelling them.

DACA Parents don’t deserve citizenship or even LPR.

They authorized funding for the Wall not appropriated. Big difference.

Prioritizing skills means they want a point system which is the raise act.

Thankfully we have Stephen Miler and Tom Cotton around to ensure the will of he people is not thwarted.

Even DACA people are turning on the dems now.

[StLucieBengal]

(01-24-2018, 11:22 AM)GMDino Wrote: What's most important, apparently, is that the "Dems caved".

So much for compromise.

So anyway...are the Republicans putting into the bill how Mexico will pay for the wall?  Or will they just raise my taxes back up for the vanity project?

The most important part is the polls are showing that the public want serious controls on immigration and want that in conjunction with giving the DACA people the ability to stay and work under a protected status

This should move the debate forward enough to where they can get it sorted out it’s an easy fix. For both sides

[GMDino]

(01-24-2018, 11:46 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: The most important part is the polls are showing that the public want serious controls on immigration and want that in conjunction with giving the DACA people the ability to stay and work under a protected status

This should move the debate forward enough to where they can get it sorted out it’s an easy fix.   For both sides

Should be.  But you boy Trump won't sign anything that doesn't fulfill his fantasy of you paying for the wall that most people do not want.

[BmorePat87]

(01-24-2018, 11:43 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: That’s not even close to what graham and Durbin were doing.  

Moved the diversity visas to another group.   Which is not cancelling them.  

DACA Parents don’t deserve citizenship or even LPR.  

They authorized funding for the Wall not appropriated.    Big difference.  

Prioritizing skills means they want a point system which is the raise act.

Thankfully we have Stephen Miler and Tom Cotton around to ensure the will of he people is not thwarted.  

Even DACA people are turning on the dems now.

Your personal differences aside, this represents what the majority of Americans want with immigration. Stephen Miller's desire for mostly white immigration shouldn't derail this.

[StLucieBengal]

(01-24-2018, 11:53 AM)GMDino Wrote: Should be.  But you boy Trump won't sign anything that doesn't fulfill his fantasy of you paying for the wall that most people do not want.

Trump’s plans dovetail with the public support. On this issue conservatives win.

Just as in the healthcare issue the socialists probably win.

[StLucieBengal]

(01-24-2018, 11:59 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Your personal differences aside, this represents what the majority of Americans want with immigration. Stephen Miller's desire for mostly white immigration shouldn't derail this.

Trump/Miller/Cotton plan is against the current racist immigration plan. They support bringing in based off their Own merits. Not dependent on your country of origin or race.

[BmorePat87]

(01-24-2018, 12:35 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Trump/Miller/Cotton plan is against the current racist immigration plan.   They support bringing in based off their Own merits.  Not dependent on your country of origin or race.

and no shit hole countries, just places like Norway. Right.

[*bfine32*]

(01-24-2018, 08:43 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Democrats caved on the shutdown and they will eventually cave on immigration.   The Harvard/Harris poll that came out shows the vast majority wants exactly what Trump and Cotton are pushing.

This is the kind of inflammatory jargon that is unproductive to progress. Nobody "caved" on immigration; they simply decided it was not in their best interest to shut the Federal Government down over an issue that has nothing to do with American Citizens especially given the issue has a deadline that is not close to expiring.

I personally love Tom Cotton and am glad he is in the discussions, Trump just needs to let them work it out instead of stoking the flames. Given his rhetoric means little to some; however, it's a big deal to many on both sides .

[StLucieBengal]

(01-24-2018, 01:05 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: and no shit hole countries, just places like Norway. Right.

That’s not even the policy that they put forth or Support.

[StLucieBengal]

(01-24-2018, 02:03 PM)bfine32 Wrote: This is the kind of inflammatory jargon that is unproductive to progress. Nobody "caved" on immigration; they simply decided it was not in their best interest to shut the Federal Government down over an issue that has nothing to do with American Citizens especially given the issue has a deadline that is not close to expiring.

I personally love Tom Cotton and am glad he is in the discussions, Trump just needs to let them work it out instead of stoking the flames. Given his rhetoric means little to some; however, it's a big deal to many on both sides .

Yeah it just shows they got over the skies. Anything I post is inflammatory to some on this board so it is what it is....

Sanders said that the white house has been meeting with Cotton and Meadows throughout to formulate their plan they are putting forward. If cotton and meadows sign off then it must a good policy. They are some of the few who I trust on immigration.

[GMDino]

Will Trump own the shutdown this time?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/02/06/trump-threatens-government-shutdown-if-congress-doesnt-fix-immigration-laws/312254002/

Quote:Trump threatens government shutdown if Congress doesn't fix immigration laws



(Photo: MANDEL NGAN, AFP/Getty Images)

CONNECTTWEET 4LINKEDIN 53COMMENTEMAILMORE
WASHINGTON — President Trump said he would shut down the government if Congress doesn't fix an immigration system that doesn't allow the government to deport criminal gang members.



"If we don’t change it, let’s have a shutdown. It’s worth it for our country. I'd love to see a shutdown if we don’t get this taken care of," Trump said Tuesday as he met with law enforcement officials to discuss the threat of the MS-13 gang. 


Trump's comments came just four days before Congress faces another deadline to pass a spending bill or shut down the government. The last spending impasse was resolved only after Democrats extracted a promise that Trump and Republicans would negotiate a solution to immigrants who arrived in the United States as children. 

Trump's shutdown threat received immediate pushback even from Rep. Barbara Comstock, R-Va., whose suburban Washington district includes a high percentage of federal government workers and contractors.

"We don’t need a government shutdown on this," she told Trump. "I think both sides learned that a shutdown is bad."


"We are not getting support of the Democrats," Trump shot back. "You can say what you want." 


Asked by a reporter if he stood by the shutdown threat, Trump didn't back down.


"I would shut it down over this issue. I can't speak for everybody at the table but I will tell you, I would shut it down over this issue," he said. "If we don't straighten out our border, we don't have a country. Without borders we don't have a country. So would I would shut it down over this issue? Yes."

[*bfine32*]

(02-06-2018, 06:10 PM)GMDino Wrote: Will Trump own the shutdown this time?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/02/06/trump-threatens-government-shutdown-if-congress-doesnt-fix-immigration-laws/312254002/

Sure looks like he is ready to own it this time. I appears the Dems learned their lesson and have separated the Budget from from the illegal immigration issue. If Trump tries to tie them back together he should suffer every bit the blow back the Dems did by shutting it down the first time.