So what’s next?

[Stonyhands]

So my questions are....

Regardless of what side you are on what’s next?

If you could decide what comes of what we are seeing currently what would it be?

Lastly, do you think anything will change? If yes, for the better or for the worse?

[Nebuchadnezzar]

What comes next is education, awareness and understanding.

For instance, "Black Lives Matter" is a movement many don't understand or won't try to understand. Yes, all lives matter but so do Black Lives and blacks do not feel like they matter to anyone else but other blacks. That's what the movement is about.

Maybe now everyone will sit up and take notice.

These people destroying and looting need to stop and it should be the protestor, not the police, who stop it. Call it out, kick them out of your groups, hold them until police arrive. Stop the destruction, looting and violence. If protestors stop the looters, destruction and violence, it will bring more to your cause.

[Stonyhands]

(06-03-2020, 02:08 AM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: What comes next is education, awareness and understanding.

For instance, "Black Lives Matter" is a movement many don't understand or won't try to understand. Yes, all lives matter but so do Black Lives and blacks do not feel like they matter to anyone else but other blacks. That's what the movement is about.

Maybe now everyone will sit up and take notice.

These people destroying and looting need to stop and it should be the protestor, not the police, who stop it. Call it out, kick them out of your groups, hold them until police arrive. Stop the destruction, looting and violence. If protestors stop the looters, destruction and violence, it will bring more to your cause.

Good answer!

Thank you for your honesty and input.

I’m interested in different opinions and not necessarily the back and forth of who thinks who is to blame. Or even who can post an article or video showing how bad the other side is. So thank you again for your input!

[Benton]

(06-03-2020, 12:50 AM)Stonyhands Wrote: So my questions are....

Regardless of what side you are on what’s next?  

If you could decide what comes of what we are seeing currently what would it be?  

Lastly, do you think anything will change?  If yes, for the better or for the worse?

What's next? More of the same.

People want to rationalize their beliefs. The current situation isn't any different. Trump gets made fun of for hiding in a bunker; Trump has peaceful protesters hit with smoke bombs and pepper bombs, beaten and driven off so he can look tough; media reports what protesters experienced (including believing they had been hit with tear gas); PD who did the hitting say 'we used pepper bombs and smoke bombs, but not tear gas'; Trump supporters: SEE THE MEDIA IS LYING! THEY NEVER USED TEAR GAS!; Trump supporters ignore everything else.

And the far left is just as bad.

If I could decide? That people would have some ****ing human decency. That people would put what's right above what fits their social/political/economic status. We romanticize a lot of our country's history. Most country's do. But I truly believe at the end of the day, the people who actually did the heavy lifting (civil rights, WWII, Boston Tea Party, etc) all did so with the belief they were making the world a better place. They knew what they were doing was for the betterment of others, and they were willing to make a sacrifice for that.

No. Unfortunately, a change is only going to come when an overwhelming majority of people realize they're being manipulated by a very small minority. And things are going to have to go even further south before that happens.

[samhain]

I honestly have no idea. Ideally, I'd like to see cases of brutality vs unarmed black victims get taken up by the DOJ, but that seems pretty unlikely in the current administration.

I feel like if anything changes, it's general public opinion. In the past, particularly with the Trayvon Martin killing, the was a lot of vocal pushback against BLM and protests in general. This time around, despite the out-of-control rioting and damage, a wider cross section of people seem genuinely willing to view the brutality as something we need to address and quickly. A majority of the public seems to support the nonviolent part of the protests. I think that's a change from where we were even two or three years back.

There have always been white people that believed in the BLM cause, but going forward I see it becoming more mainstream. Even some hardline conservatives seemed pissed at what happened this time around. I guess that's the gist of what I think will happen. "Allies" will become more prevalent and even perhaps the norm outside of far-right circles. More people from outside the movement will show support. Whites still constitute a majority of the population, and if they've changed their minds in significant numbers about police brutality against blacks, that's a different environment than we've seen historically.

[Belsnickel]

I honestly don't know. I can make arguments for several different scenarios and some of them legitimately include authoritarian takeover. It's hard to look around right now and not see it. It's hard to look around right now and see hope for a peaceful transition of power.

[GMDino]

(06-03-2020, 03:34 AM)Benton Wrote: What's next? More of the same.

People want to rationalize their beliefs. The current situation isn't any different. Trump gets made fun of for hiding in a bunker; Trump has peaceful protesters hit with smoke bombs and pepper bombs, beaten and driven off so he can look tough; media reports what protesters experienced (including believing they had been hit with tear gas); PD who did the hitting say 'we used pepper bombs and smoke bombs, but not tear gas'; Trump supporters: SEE THE MEDIA IS LYING! THEY NEVER USED TEAR GAS!; Trump supporters ignore everything else.

And the far left is just as bad.

If I could decide? That people would have some ****ing human decency. That people would put what's right above what fits their social/political/economic status. We romanticize a lot of our country's history. Most country's do. But I truly believe at the end of the day, the people who actually did the heavy lifting (civil rights, WWII, Boston Tea Party, etc) all did so with the belief they were making the world a better place. They knew what they were doing was for the betterment of others, and they were willing to make a sacrifice for that.

No. Unfortunately, a change is only going to come when an overwhelming majority of people realize they're being manipulated by a very small minority. And things are going to have to go even further south before that happens.

This.

There is nothing new under the sun.  I didn't live through them but are these riots as bad as 1968?  Are police better/worse?

We've made strides in this country but not enough.  May never be enough.   Add in that the majority (whites) will be the minority soon and the entire dynamic starts to change.  From elections on.

Crazy times.

[NATI BENGALS]

I would start with eliminating the for profit private prison system.

Eliminate lifetime appointments for judges.

Change the way I understand many LEO careers start. Which is working in jails and prisons. Instead of starting off in the place that teaches you to dehumanize prisoners who are fellow Americans and leads many to racist tendencies. Start them off in the streets protecting and serving.

[GMDino]

(06-03-2020, 11:45 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I would start with eliminating the for profit private prison system.

Eliminate lifetime appointments for judges.

Change the way I understand many LEO careers start. Which is working in jails and prisons. Instead of starting off in the place that teaches you to dehumanize prisoners who are fellow Americans and leads many to racist tendencies. Start them off in the streets protecting and serving.

I do think a big problem with police/citizen relations comes from how the areas are policed.  I'm from a small town and we knew all of the officers and their families.  We respected them because we interacted with them and knew them.

That's harder is a city like LA or NYC or Chicago unless you have a large enough force to handle neighborhoods not just the cities.

I don't know if that's a funding issue, a management issue or a lack of candidates issue.  But I agree that officers being known in their neighborhoods and knowing the people there would help with many of the "misunderstandings" duing interactions.

[BmorePat87]

(06-03-2020, 11:45 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Eliminate lifetime appointments for judges.

There should be quantifiable metrics used to evaluate the performance of judges and the terms should be 10-15 years. 

Pete had an interesting concept for the Supreme Court that could be used for state and lower federal courts. It included cycling justices and adding justices who were unanimously picked by the sitting justices. 

[fredtoast]

The BLM movement will not accomplish their goal because they don't have a specific goal. You can no more end racism and police brutality by rioting than you can end child abuse by rioting. They have to come up with some specific policy or law to rally support behind. MLK Jr had The Civil rights Act and the Voters Rights Act. Th Suffragettes had the 19th Amendment. Until BLM can come up with a specific goal they are just wasting their time.

I had the same problem with Kaepernick a few years ago. He created a huge platform for his message, but he never came up with a message. he could never say exactly what had to happen before he would stop kneeling. So it went nowhere.

All I see is a lot of finger pointing and allegations of "remaining silent" or "not listening". From my experience an overwhelming majority of white people oppose racism and police brutality, and they would gladly support some law or policy to help address the problem. But they just don't have a goal or a message to get behind. The Civil Rights Act was not a reform forced on white people by the courts. It was a law supported by a majority of citizens.

I think the clear goal would be for every state to have a Prosecuting Attorney completely independent from all local law enforcement agencies to investigate and prosecute every allegation of police brutality or misconduct. I don't see why an overwhelming majority of all citizens would not support and speak ou n support of this.

[Stonyhands]

(06-03-2020, 01:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The BLM movement will not accomplish their goal because they don't have a specific goal. You can no more end racism and police brutality by rioting than you can end child abuse by rioting. They have to come up with some specific policy or law to rally support behind. MLK Jr had The Civil rights Act and the Voters Rights Act. Th Suffragettes had the 19th Amendment. Until BLM can come up with a specific goal they are just wasting their time.

I had the same problem with Kaepernick a few years ago. He created a huge platform for his message, but he never came up with a message. he could never say exactly what had to happen before he would stop kneeling. So it went nowhere.

All I see is a lot of finger pointing and allegations of "remaining silent" or "not listening". From my experience an overwhelming majority of white people oppose racism and police brutality, and they would gladly support some law or policy to help address the problem. But they just don't have a goal or a message to get behind. The Civil Rights Act was not a reform forced on white people by the courts. It was a law supported by a majority of citizens.

I think the clear goal would be for every state to have a Prosecuting Attorney completely independent from all local law enforcement agencies to investigate and prosecute every allegation of police brutality or misconduct. I don't see why an overwhelming majority of all citizens would not support and speak ou n support of this.

I was going to ask next whether or not the consensus is that we have an issue with racism with a majority of our population or if it’s a smaller subset.

If it is a smaller subset the next question raised is, Does anybody believe the current happenings are going to change that smaller subset?

I see a lot more awareness and a lot of “virtue signaling” on my social media feeds but I don’t think the people doing so are the ones that are the problem to begin with.

But I agree with your post and I think those are tremendous ideas! Thank you for replying.

[Stonyhands]

For the record, I feel like this is a productive thread from the standpoint that nobody is attacking anybody else. So far every post I’ve read was well thought out and are great ideas. Thanks everyone for your thoughts and contributions, let’s keep it going.

[grampahol]

(06-03-2020, 12:50 AM)Stonyhands Wrote: So my questions are....

Regardless of what side you are on what’s next?  

If you could decide what comes of what we are seeing currently what would it be?  

Lastly, do you think anything will change?  If yes, for the better or for the worse?

The zombie apocalypse and mad max stuff with punk rock geeks with spiked hair shooting each other with miniature cross bows?  I'm not sure I'd be surprised if tomorrow's headlines said as much. Zombies outracing cars on the freeway running 85 mph eating slow people's faces.. Sounds legit, huh?

Ok, seriously I'm not sure the real change we so desperately need will actually occur. 
One thing that really needs change is to put an end to mass incarceration and the elimination of for profit prisons. It's a concept with its very intention to maximize institutional racism along with delegitimizing voting and pretending that voter fraud is a problem at all. The real fraud is extreme  gerrymandering and the elimination of many local polling places and voter roll purges.

[Belsnickel]

(06-03-2020, 01:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The BLM movement will not accomplish their goal because they don't have a specific goal. You can no more end racism and police brutality by rioting than you can end child abuse by rioting. They have to come up with some specific policy or law to rally support behind. MLK Jr had The Civil rights Act and the Voters Rights Act. Th Suffragettes had the 19th Amendment. Until BLM can come up with a specific goal they are just wasting their time.

I think BLM won't succeed because the declaration of Antifa as a terrorist organization, which really isn't an organization at all, gives the government broad capabilities to jail anyone they see as an issue and even potentially aligned with that movement. I would not be at all surprised to see prominent black leaders in the BLM movement be swept up in that.

[grampahol]

I'm waiting for the unstable genius to issue a pardon for the Minneapolis cop. That would set off rioting the likes of which we've never seen before ..

[Stonyhands]

(06-03-2020, 08:33 PM)grampahol Wrote: I'm waiting for the unstable genius to issue a pardon for the Minneapolis cop. That would set off rioting the likes of which we've never seen before ..

That won’t happen...you’d see the majority of now Trump supporters lining up to help pack his bags come next January. Justice is justice and Mr. Floyd deserves justice. I don’t know that I’ve seen anybody from any side say otherwise.

[Benton]

(06-03-2020, 07:50 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I honestly don't know. I can make arguments for several different scenarios and some of them legitimately include authoritarian takeover. It's hard to look around right now and not see it. It's hard to look around right now and see hope for a peaceful transition of power.

That's a concern right now. I can see trump using the mail in votes to deem the election "unofficial" and try to use that as an excuse until a "real" election can be held. And, sadly,there's a lot of folks who will support that. And the riots will only give him more fuel, if that's the way he decided to go.

Did he ever even get started on a transition team?

[samhain]

(06-04-2020, 12:43 AM)Benton Wrote: That's a concern right now. I can see trump using the mail in votes to deem the election "unofficial" and try to use that as an excuse until a "real" election can be held. And, sadly,there's a lot of folks who will support that. And the riots will only give him more fuel, if that's the way he decided to go.

Did he ever even get started on a transition team?

I'm conscious of the possibility, and the concern is warranted, but I don't see it.  The Pentagon brass doesn't seem to be loving the stuff he's threatening to do with the military over the last week.  My gut tells me that if he attempted to maintain power after being beaten in November, it wouldn't be a stretch to think that come January, the military would step in and remove him.  I doubt that the DC police or higher "deep state" law enforcement agencies would balk at the idea, either.  Bill Barr's stumpy little ass won't be enough to protect him at that point.

[samhain]

(06-03-2020, 07:51 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I think BLM won't succeed because the declaration of Antifa as a terrorist organization, which really isn't an organization at all, gives the government broad capabilities to jail anyone they see as an issue and even potentially aligned with that movement. I would not be at all surprised to see prominent black leaders in the BLM movement be swept up in that.

I'm interested to see how that designation holds up in an actual court of law.  I'm not sure that he or anyone has the authority do make that designation.  How exactly does one prove that a defendant is part of an organization that isn't really organized and has no real hierarchy?  If someone commits a crime, sure, prosecute.  I just think it's dodgy ground for association alone to be deemed enough to charge someone.