So what’s next?

[Benton]

(06-05-2020, 11:25 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Not even a little bit of that explains the stance of getting rid of Trump will fix it. With all those cool Obama words you quoted he still didn't fix it. I get folks don't like Trump but let's try to look at it rationally 

No no, you brought up the irrelevance of trayvon Martin and Obama's words. If you're going to pass the buck on Trump's hate mongering because of what Obama said, then deal with what obama said and did versus what trump said and did.

Or maybe you don't have a point? Maybe you don't care to look at it rationally?

[Dill]

(06-05-2020, 11:25 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Not even a little bit of that explains the stance of getting rid of Trump will fix it. With all those cool Obama words you quoted he still didn't fix it. I get folks don't like Trump but let's try to look at it rationally 

A little bit of that DOES explain why getting rid of Trump would be a necessary step to reduce police violence. Get a president who doesn't praise police for overreach and brutality.  Get one who doesn't want to use the U.S. military against U.S. civilians, or deploy it for photo ops.  I.e., get one with knowledge, judgment, and presidential Gravitas.

I haven't read anyone who thinks JUST getting rid of Trump would automatically "fix it."  Perhaps there is no such "stance," just simplification of current recommendations for reform.  A straw man.

Obama's cool words were backed by action, as I have demonstrated in several posts. And his action made a difference. E.g., The Ferguson police department was meeting its training and other accountability goals until the Trump DOJ stalled them. Obama shut down the militarization of police, exchanging the "Warrior" model for the "guardian." And more.

What appeal to "rationality" simply ignores data and the implementation--or undoing--of actual policies?

[Dill]

(06-05-2020, 10:03 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Are we reading the same thread? 

As to the rest: he's tried plenty to calm the situation.

He called the murder of Floyd horrific

He told peaceful protesters they have an allies in him

He directed his DOJ to conduct a full investigation

Well, almost. You are reading half of it. (Fox Filter alert!)

E.g. where I see "The military and police must DOMINATE the STREETS, but the peaceful protestors have an ally in me!"

You see: "The military and police must DOMINATE the STREETS, but the peaceful protestors have an ally in me!"

Where I read "US military drives peaceful protestors from street for Trump photo op, and he says 'the murder of Floyd was "horrific."'"

You read: "US military drives peaceful protestors from street for Trump photo op, and he says 'the murder of Floyd was "horrific."'"

And so forth.  If Trayvon Martin's killing in Florida wasn't Obama's fault then how could a death in Minnesota resulting from an out of control police force be the fault of the man praised for undoing that control?   How how how?

Must be something wrong with the OTHER posters.

They overlook Trump's cool words contradicting his destructive actions while praising Obama's cool words driving action and positive change.

Liberal hypocrisy? THEY have an agenda then?

[hollodero]

(06-05-2020, 10:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course you said he's "does nothing" so you still want to stand by that or go with "hasn't done enough to make me satisfied"? 

Is that supposed to be a gotcha moment? 

Yeah he did not do "nothing". Eg. he muddled lip service into his rants. Also, he transformed oxygen into carbon dioxide. Constantly.

[*bfine32*]

(06-06-2020, 01:17 AM)Benton Wrote: No no, you brought up the irrelevance of trayvon Martin and Obama's words. If you're going to pass the buck on Trump's hate mongering because of what Obama said, then deal with what obama said and did versus what trump said and did.

Or maybe you don't have a point? Maybe you don't care to look at it rationally?

I brought up Obama's words about Trayvon Martin in response to this:

 "Obama didn't actively try to paint the problem as all 'the other guy,"

Obama's thoughts about what "his" son would look like clearly did that

But if you think we should discuss the entirety of the message let's look at what Trump said at the launching of Space X. He took attention away from a hom a huge event that he knew would be viewed nationally to draw attention to the matter:

Quote:Donald Trump: (00:00)
I want to thank our great Vice President for your fearless and tireless commitment to fulfilling America’s destiny in space. Thank you very much, Mike. Great job. Great job. We’re all so grateful to Mike’s wonderful wife, Karen, for being here and for all she does for our country. Thank you. Thank you, Karen. Before going further on this exciting day for all America in space, I want to say a few words about the situation in Minnesota. The death of George Floyd on the streets of Minneapolis was a grave tragedy. It should never have happened. It has filled Americans all over the country with horror, anger and grief. Yesterday, I spoke to George’s family and expressed the sorrow of our entire nation for their loss. I stand before you as a friend and ally to every American seeking justice and peace and I stand before you in firm opposition to anyone exploiting this tragedy to loot, rob, attack and menace. Healing, not hatred, justice, not chaos, are the mission at hand.

Quote:Donald Trump: (01:41)
The police officers involved in this incident have been fired from their jobs. One officer has already been arrested and charged with murder. State and federal authorities are carrying out an investigation to see what further charges may be warranted, including against sadly, the other three. In addition, my administration has opened a civil rights investigation and I have asked the Attorney General and the Justice Department to expedite it. I understand the pain that people are feeling. We support the right of peaceful protestors and we hear their pleas, but what we are now seeing on the streets of our cities has nothing to do with justice or with peace. The memory of George Floyd is being dishonored by rioters, looters and anarchists. The violence and vandalism is being led by Antifa and other radical left wing groups who are terrorizing the innocent, destroying jobs, hurting businesses and burning down buildings.
Donald Trump: (02:59)
The main victims of this horrible, horrible situations are the citizens who live in these once lovely communities. The mobs are devastating the life’s work of good people and destroying their dream. Right now, America needs creation, not destruction, cooperation, not contempt, security, not anarchy and there will be no anarchy. Civilization must be cherished, defended, and protected. The voices of law abiding citizens must be heard and heard very loudly. We cannot and must not allow a small group of criminals and vandals to wreck our cities and lay waste to our communities. We must defend the rights of every citizen to live without violence, prejudice, or fear. We support the overwhelming majority of police officers who are incredible in every way and devoted public servants. They keep our city safe, protect our communities from gangs and drugs and risk their own lives for us every day.
Donald Trump: (04:22)
No one is more upset than fellow law enforcement offices by this small handful who failed to abide by their oath to serve and protect. My administration will stop mob violence and we’ll stop it cold. It does not serve the interest of justice or any citizen of any race, color, or creed for the government to give into anarchy, abandoned police precincts, or allow communities to be burned to the ground, won’t happen. Those making excuses or justifications for violence are not helping the downtrodden, but delivering new anguish and new pain. From day one of my administration, we’ve made it a top priority to build up distressed communities and revitalize our crumbling inner cities. We fought hard with Senator Tim Scott ___ and many others to create opportunity zones, helping to draw a surge of new investment to the places in our country that need it most.
Donald Trump: (05:45)
We must all work together as a society to expand opportunity and to create a future of greater dignity and promise for all of our people. We must forge a partnership with community leaders, local law enforcement and the faith community to restore hope. Radical left criminals, thugs, and others all throughout our country and throughout the world, will not be allowed to set communities ablaze. We won’t let it happen. It harms those who have the least, and we will be protecting those who have the least. The leadership of the National Guard and the Department of Justice are now in close communication with state and city officials in Minnesota and we’re coordinating our efforts with local law enforcement all across our nation. In America, justice is never achieved at the hands of an angry mob. I will not allow angry mobs to dominate, won’t happen. It is essential that we protect the crown jewel of American democracy, the rule of law and our independent system of justice.
Donald Trump: (07:15)
Every citizen in every community has the right to be safe in their workplace, safe in their homes and safe in our city streets. This is the sacred right of all Americans that I am totally determined to defend and will defend. My administration will always stand against violence, mayhem and disorder. We will stand with the family of George Floyd, with the peaceful protestors and with every law abiding citizen who wants decency, civility, safety, and security. We are working toward a more just society, but that means building up, not tearing down.
Donald Trump: (08:03)
But that means building up, not tearing down, joining hands, not hurling fests, standing in solidarity, not surrendering to hostility. Moments ago as we went and just the launch of two great American astronauts into space, we were filled with the sense of pride and unity that brings us together as Americans. That same spirit, which powered our astronauts to the moon has also helped lift our country to ever greater heights of justice and opportunity throughout our history. So today, as we mark a renewed commitment to America’s future in space, a tremendous commitment it is. Let us also commit to a brighter future for all of our citizens right here on earth. When Americans are united, there is nothing we cannot do. From day one of my administration, we put America first.
Donald Trump: (09:17)
This afternoon, I am delighted to be with you at Cape Canaveral in this storied home of American daring aspiration and drive. This is the first big space message in 50 years, think of that, and it is an honor to be delivering it. Today as we gather in this special place to celebrate not only the launch of a new spacecraft, but also our Nation’s bold and triumphant return to the stars, it’s a special day. Moments ago, the world bore witness to the flight of the first new manned U.S. spacecraft in nearly 40 years since the space shuttle launched in 1981, a long time ago. I am thrilled to announce that the SpaceX Dragon capsule has successfully reached low earth orbit and that our astronauts are safe and sound. With this launch, the decades of last years and little action are officially over. A new age of American ambition has now begun. Past leaders put the United States at the mercy of foreign nations to send our astronauts into orbit. Not anymore. Today, we once again, proudly launch American astronauts on American rockets, the best in the world from right here on American soil.
Donald Trump: (11:11)
Those of us who saw the spectacular and unforgettable liftoff this afternoon watched more than an act of history. We watched an act of heroism. Every time our astronauts climb aboard a rocket, which is many, many stories of only engine and fuel and vault across the sky, they display breathtaking valor. What Colonel Douglas Hurley and Colonel Robert Behnken did this afternoon was pure American genius and courage. They joined the ranks of just seven prior American astronauts who have made the perilous maiden voyage to test a new class of spacecraft. The names of Hurley and Behnken will stand in the history books alongside those of legends like Alan Shepard, Gus Grissom, John Young. Now these brave and selfless astronauts will continue their mission to advance the cause of human knowledge as they proceed to the International Space Station before returning to Earth. We wish them Godspeed on their journey and as one proud nation, we salute their fearless service. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Donald Trump: (12:42)
I also want to send our Nation’s gratitude to the wives of these valiant astronauts, both of whom are astronauts themselves, Karen Nyberg and Megan McArthur. We join them in praying for our heroes safe return. As you know, this spring, our nation has endured the pain and hardship of a global pandemic. As we usher in a new era of manned spacecraft, we are reminded that America is always in the process of transcending great challenges. Our Nation is blessed with limitless reserves of talent, tenacity, and resolve. The same spirit of American determination that sends our people into space, will conquer this disease on Earth. It should have never happened. Nothing, not even gravity itself can hold Americans down or keep America back. We are grateful to NASA Administrator, Jim Bridenstine and Director of Kennedy Space Center, Bob Cabana, for welcoming us this evening. Very special. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Great job. Great job.
Donald Trump: (14:13)
Come a long way in three and a half years, Jim haven’t we? A long way. To the incredible men and women of NASA from here at Kennedy Space Center to the Johnson Space Center in Texas, we love you too, to NASA Plum Brook Station in Sandusky, Ohio, thank you all for working so hard to make this day a reality. We have many other great days almost ready to happen. Also with us are many members of my cabinet, including our great new DNI, John Radcliffe. Thank you, John. Thank you. We have a great friend of mine, special man ran a great, great campaign, Governor of Florida, Ron DeSantis. Thank you, Ron. Thank you, Ron. Your senators, Rick Scott and Marco Rubio. Thank you very much. Thank you. Leader Kevin McCarthy, Kevin, thank you very much. Great job you do Kevin. And representatives, Matt Gaetz, John Rutherford, Michael Waltz, Bill Posey, Gus Bilirakis, Daniel Webster, Brian Mast, Elise Stefanik, Bill Flores, Brian Babin, Rodney Davis, Roger Marshall and Steven Palazzo. Thank you very much. Thank you.
Donald Trump: (15:51)
What a great group of people. They’re warriors, they’re really warriors. They helped so much get this done and so many other things. With us also-
Donald Trump: (16:01)
With us also, is our Air Force Chief Of Staff General David Goldfein. General, thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, General. Thank you. And Chief of Space Operation, the first ever named, and now a member of the joint chiefs of staff, because we created the United States Space Force. General Jay Raymond. Thank you very much, Jay. Thank you, Jay.
Donald Trump: (16:40)
And senior members also of our great United States military, has never been stronger than it is right now. Also Attorney General of Florida, Ashley Moody, and Chief Financial Officer of Florida, Jimmy Patronis and many other distinguished guests. Thank you very much for being here, we appreciate it. I especially want to congratulate someone who truly embodies the American ethos, a big thinking and risk taking. After achieving success as an internet entrepreneur, he could’ve spent his fortune doing anything, including yachting, lots of things, he could do lots of things. But in 2002, he began pouring tens of millions of dollars of his own money into research and development for a new rocket. He’s a little different than a lot of other people. He liked rockets. He assembled a crew of some of the greatest minds and talent in American aerospace. In the years since SpaceX has become the first private company to develop and successfully launch its own rocket into orbit. The first to launch and recover its own capsule. And of course, moments ago, SpaceX became the first private company to put humans into orbit around the earth. Elon Musk, congratulations. Congratulations, Elon. Thanks Elon. For Elon and 8,000 SpaceX employees, today is the fulfillment of a dream almost two decades in the making. For years on end, they have worked hand in hand with NASA, sculpting aluminum, tightening valves, tuning nozzles, testing parachutes, and filling massive tanks with thousands and thousands of pounds of kerosene and liquid oxygen. Today, the groundbreaking partnership between NASA and SpaceX has given our nation the gift of an unmatched power, a state of the art spaceship to put our astronauts into orbit at a fraction of the cost of the Space Shuttle and it’s much better. From now on the United States will leverage the fast growing capabilities of our commercial sector and the finest pieces of real estate on Earth, which you need very badly, to send U.S. astronauts into space. Under NASA’s commercial crew program, we will use rockets and spacecraft designed, built, owned, and launched by private American companies at a fixed price for the American taxpayer. Today’s launch makes clear the commercial space industry is the future. The modern world was built by risk takers and renegade fierce competitors, skilled craftsmens, captains of industry who pursued opportunities no one else saw and envisioned what no one else could ever think of seeing. The United States will harness the unrivaled creativity and speed of our private sector to stride even further into the unknown. This launch also marks an exciting turning point for NASA. This agency will now focus its unmatched expertise like nobody’s ever seen and power and integrity to do what NASA does better than anyone else and it’s not even close. Embark on the most difficult, most daring, most audacious missions in the history of humankind. When I first came into office three and a half years ago, NASA had lost its way and the excitement, energy and ambition as almost everybody in this room knows, was gone. There was grass growing through the cracks of your concrete runways, not a pretty sight, not a pretty sight at all.
Donald Trump: (21:26)
The last administration presided over the closing of the Space Shuttle and almost all of the giant facility that keeps so many people working, so many brilliant minds going. People were crying, they were devastated, but now it’s the greatest of its kind anywhere in the world and we’ll get greater and greater with years to come. I promise you that. We have created the envy of the world and will soon be landing on Mars. And we’ll soon have the greatest weapons ever imagined in history. I’ve already seen designs and even I can’t believe it. The United States has regained our place of prestige as the world leader. As has often been stated, you can’t be number one on Earth, if you are number two in space. And we are not going to be number two anywhere. Nowhere is this more true than with our military, which we have completely rebuilt. Under my administration, we have invested two and a half trillion dollars in new planes, ships, submarines, tanks, missiles, rockets, anything you can think of. And last year I signed the law, creating the sixth branch of that already very famous United States Armed Forces, the Space Force.
Donald Trump: (23:22)
For every citizen who has eagerly waited for America to reignite those engines of will, confidence and imagination that put a man on the moon, I stand before you to say you need wait no longer. Through NASA’s Artemis program, the United States is preparing for a crude mission to Mars. Earlier this week, I saw the Orion capsules being worked on in this building as part of the Artemis Moon to Mars program. Those capsules will soon return Americans-
Donald Trump: (24:03)
Those capsules will soon return Americans to lunar orbit for the first time in over 50 years, half a century. By 2024, our astronauts will return to the lunar surface to establish a permanent presence and the launching pad to Mars. And the first woman on the moon will be an American woman, and the first nation to land on Mars will be the United States of America.
Donald Trump: (24:44)
Since I signed the order to establish these goals shortly after taking office, we have made rapid gains. A new 22,000 pound capsule is already built. The next generation of spacesuits are already made. Colossal rockets are now being tested, and the contracts for three separate lunar landers have been awarded and signed, and they are magnificent. In the years ahead, America will go bigger, bolder, further, faster, and America will go first. America will always be first. To be certain, we will meet the adversity and hardship along the way. There may even be tragedy because that is the danger of space. There’s nothing we can do about that. The power that we’re talking about is unrivaled. It’s nothing we can do about problems, but we’ll have very few of them. We will confront all of those challenges, knowing that the quest for understanding is the oldest and deepest hope in our souls.
Donald Trump: (26:15)
The innate human desire to explore and innovate is what propels the engines of progress and the march of civilization. We will preserve and persevere, and we will ensure a future of American dominance in space. To that end, over the last three years, I reestablished the National Space Council. I issued a directive cutting red tape for innovative space companies, such as SpaceX. We created the world’s first comprehensive space traffic management system. Last month, I signed an executive order establishing U.S. policy for the recovery and use of space resources and minerals. Administrator Bridenstine announced the Artemis Accords to govern the future of space exploration development. Together, we will assert America’s rightful heritage as the greatest spacefaring nation on the planet. And already it’s not even close. In the half a century since the United States stopped sending astronauts to deep into space, 1972, no other country has ever done it.
Donald Trump: (27:43)
The reasons are simple: cost, technological complexity, and tremendous danger. For instance, I was told that the rocket you just witnessed had to be launched within one second, or it would be impossible for it to hit its target. And I was here two days ago, and I said to Jim, “Jim, it’s okay, why don’t you wait five or 10 minutes?” And he said, “Sir, we only have a window of one second.” And I walked out of here, shaking my head. “Is that true, Jim?” “Yes, it’s true.” Space travel is not a feat of engineering alone. It’s also a moral endeavor, a measure of a nation’s vision, its willpower, its place in the world.
Donald Trump: (28:42)
Exploration is a test of our values and of our faith. America is a nation defined by its commitment to discovery, to solve mysteries, to chart the unknown, to press the limits, to achieve the fullest expression of life’s potential and to ensure that America is the nation that always leads the way and especially in space. This evening, I am more confident than ever before that America stands poised to thrive in this grand undertaking. It’s incredible. We are a nation of pioneers. We are the people who crossed the ocean, carved out a foothold on a vast continent, settled a great wilderness, and then set our eyes upon the stars. This is our history and this is our destiny.
Donald Trump: (29:42)
Now, like our ancestors before us, we are venturing out to explore a new magnificent frontier. It’s called space. Our most daring feats, our most epic journeys, our biggest adventures, and our finest days are just beginning. America’s proudest moments are still ahead. We are on the verge of our most exciting years, and next year may be the most exciting of all, you just watch. So today as our brave American astronauts shake the earth and blaze a trail of fire and steel into the heavens, we proclaim for all to hear that we have not yet tested the full strength of the American character, and the world has not yet seen the full glory of the American spirit. For our country, for our children, and for humanity’s march into the stars, the best is yet to come.
Donald Trump: (30:53)
It was a great honor for me to deliver this speech. God bless our brave astronauts now soaring through the heavens. God bless the men and women of NASA and God bless America. Thank you very much.

[*bfine32*]

(06-06-2020, 02:49 AM)Dill Wrote:
A little bit of that DOES explain why getting rid of Trump would be a necessary step to reduce police violence. Get a president who doesn't praise police for overreach and brutality.  Get one who doesn't want to use the U.S. military against U.S. civilians, or deploy it for photo ops.  I.e., get one with knowledge, judgment, and presidential Gravitas.

I haven't read anyone who thinks JUST getting rid of Trump would automatically "fix it."  Perhaps there is no such "stance," just simplification of current recommendations for reform.  A straw man.

Obama's cool words were backed by action, as I have demonstrated in several posts. And his action made a difference. E.g., The Ferguson police department was meeting its training and other accountability goals until the Trump DOJ stalled them. Obama shut down the militarization of police, exchanging the "Warrior" model for the "guardian." And more.

What appeal to "rationality" simply ignores data and the implementation--or undoing--of actual policies?

I get that the liberal will use every bad issue as a launching point to discredit Trump and remove him from the White House. In my original post on the matter I asked folks to consider what got more attention: The church getting burned or POTUS walking to it. I think we've clearly answered that now it's up to us to determine what the true issue is. 

[*bfine32*]

(06-06-2020, 03:44 AM)hollodero Wrote: Is that supposed to be a gotcha moment? 

Yeah he did not do "nothing". Eg. he muddled lip service into his rants. Also, he transformed oxygen into carbon dioxide. Constantly.

He brought attention to the issue at the launch of Space X. No "gotcha" just disputing the assertion he did nothing. Given I know why you said it. 

[fredtoast]

(06-06-2020, 10:07 AM)bfine32 Wrote:  In my original post on the matter I asked folks to consider what got more attention: The church getting burned or POTUS walking to it. I think we've clearly answered that now it's up to us to determine what the true issue is. 

The church getting burned got just as much coverage as the dozens of other buildiungs across the coun try that got burned.

What does that have to do with Trumps actions against innocent protestors?

Nothing.  It is just some lame attempt to deflect from the fact that he used vilonce against innocent, non-violent protestors just to get a photo op infron of a church.

[GMDino]

(06-06-2020, 10:04 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I brought up Obama's words about Trayvon Martin in response to this:

 "Obama didn't actively try to paint the problem as all 'the other guy,"

Obama's thoughts about what "his" son would look like clearly did that

But if you think we should discuss the entirety of the message let's look at what Trump said at the launching of Space X. He took attention away from a hom a huge event that he knew would be viewed nationally to draw attention to the matter:

Very nice, well written words.

Six days after the murder.

Without a single tweet or comment before then.

Followed by repeated calls for the police to get tough. only the Democratic officials to stop being "weak", hiding, photo ops where peaceful protesters are gassed.

I get that bfine (I can't even say republicans or conservatives) and other Trump defenders have set the bar SOOO low that if Trump can get through reading (poorly) one speech where he says the "right" thing they think that makes up for every other thing he says and does on a subject so they can justify keeping him in office.


So *I* ask what DESERVES more attention:  One speech, written for him and delivered nearly a week after the murder and after the arrest and charging of the officer OR the entirety of what Trump has said and done about race and the protests and the police?  Don't answer.  We know what you will focus on.  The penny you found at the bottom of the pile of broken glass covered in dung...saying how good it was.

Meanwhile...

https://www.space.com/trump-make-space-great-again-campaign-ad-petition.html

Quote:Trump campaign pulls 'Make Space Great Again' video that may have violated NASA regulations

By Elizabeth Howell 2 days ago
NASA was unaware of the video before its release on June 3.



The campaign to reelect President Donald Trump has pulled a short-lived "Make Space Great Again" video ad this week that surprised NASA and appeared to violate the agency's advertising regulations on the depictions of its astronauts.

The video, which Trump's reelection campaign released on YouTube Wednesday (June 3), was taken down Thursday, with a note stating only that it was "removed by the uploader." It was also removed from the campaign's Facebook and Twitter pages.

A NASA official confirmed to Space.com Thursday that the agency was not aware of the Trump campaign video before it became public Wednesday. The ad featured NASA video footage of SpaceX's historic first astronaut launch, as well as scenes of astronauts Bob Behnken and Doug Hurley, who flew on the test mission, and their families bidding them farewell just before the flight.  

Retired NASA astronaut Karen Nyberg, who is married to Hurley, complained about the video Thursday, saying she had not given consent for her son or herself to be in appear in the video. 

"I find it disturbing that a video image of me and my son is being used in political propaganda without my knowledge or consent," Nyberg wrote on Twitter, tagging NASA and its chief Jim Bridenstine in the post. "That is wrong."

The video also a brief clip from a SpaceX Falcon Heavy rocket launch that was not for NASA and a view of CEO Elon Musk at last week's launch. SpaceX had not responded to a request for comment as of press time.
Related: Presidential visions for space: From Ike to Trump


NASA's regulations on astronaut depictions

Before the video was taken down, a Trump campaign spokesperson told Bloomberg News that the 2.5-minute video was created from publicly available sources. A disclaimer at the end states that the video was paid for by Trump's campaign and was approved by Trump.

But according to NASA's advertising guidelines (which you can find here), the video appeared to violate agency regulations by featuring footage of active astronauts, a retired astronaut without their consent and NASA's iconic logo. Those guidelines prohibit using the name or likeness of any active astronaut, like Behnken and Hurley, in advertising or marketing material.

"Astronauts or employees who are currently employed by NASA cannot have their names, likenesses or other personality traits displayed in any advertisements or marketing material," the NASA regulation states.  

Behnken's wife Megan McArthur, also an active astronaut, and the couple's son were briefly visible in the video with their backs to the camera as they say goodbye. Nyberg and her son also were shown in the video with their backs to the camera as they say farewell to Hurley. Those images originally appeared in NASA's live broadcasts for the SpaceX launch last week.

Quote:
[/url]Karen L. Nyberg

@AstroKarenN




I find it disturbing that a video image of me and my son is being used in political propaganda without my knowledge or consent. That is wrong. @nasa @JimBridenstine https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/1268573978408488964 …
Eric Berger

@SciGuySpace

A lot of people at NASA and SpaceX are upset about that MAGA space ad:

Petition · Stop Donald Trump politicizing SpaceX and NASA accomplishments https://www.change.org/p/nasa-stop-donald-trump-politicizing-spacex-and-nasa-accomplishments …


9,062
6:15 PM - Jun 4, 2020
Twitter Ads info and privacy

2,615 people are talking about this

[url=https://twitter.com/AstroKarenN/status/1268667789604270082]



While a different NASA regulation governs the use of former astronauts in advertising, it does require consent from the astronaut. Nyberg stressed in her Twitter post that she had not given any consent.

NASA's logo is also off-limits without special approval in advance, according to the regulations: "NASA does not permit use of the NASA Insignia and other NASA indicia in advertisements." Since NASA was surprised by the campaign video, the Trump campaign appears not to have received approval from the space agency.


A Change.org petition, which has already gathered more than 5,000 signatures, calls on the Trump campaign to "stop politicizing SpaceX and NASA accomplishments." The SpaceX/NASA launch last week was part of NASA's Commercial Crew Program, the petition correctly states; that program began in 2010 under President Barack Obama and predates the current administration.

"[The video] even involves a variation [on] his campaign's well-known slogan: Make Space Great Again," petition organizer Andrew Harner wrote in his description of why he feels the petition is necessary. (Trump's usual slogan is "Make America Great Again.")

"This group of signatories," Harner added, "stands for the position that it is wrong for this scientific achievement, as well as NASA and SpaceX video footage, to be used for political showmanship."

The "Make Space Great Again" video, endorsed by Trump (a Republican) and paid for by his 2020 presidential reelection campaign, focuses on the Trump administration's push to send humans back to the moon in 2024 — which, if Trump is reelected this fall, would put the landing at the end of his second term. 



The Trump video was focused on SpaceX's successful May 30 launch of Behnken and astronaut Doug Hurley on a Crew Dragon spacecraft, which was NASA's most-watched online event ever. The SpaceX mission, called Demo-2, marked the first launch of astronauts from Florida since the end of the space shuttle program in 2011. 

Trump attended the launch in person, as the video shows, along with Vice President Mike Pence.

NASA picked SpaceX and Boeing to build commercial crew vehicles in 2014, two years before Trump was elected, as part of a program initiated by the Obama administration. American spacecraft replacements for the aging space shuttle were first discussed in detail during the preceding administration, of Republican George W. Bush, whose two terms ended in early 2009. During the nine-year gap between the space shuttle and SpaceX, NASA continued to fly astronauts into space by purchasing seats aboard Russian Soyuz spacecraft.

While Trump's administration did commit to ongoing funding of commercial crew development, the Trump campaign video does not mention the earlier contributions of Bush or Obama.

"We are giving you a platform the likes of which nobody has ever been given," Trump said in a speech featured in the video, playing over footage of the SpaceX launch. "Our nation of pioneers still yearns to conquer the unknown because we are Americans, and the future belongs totally to us."

The video also included excerpts from the famous 1962 speech by Democratic President John F. Kennedy that initiated the Apollo program. Those missions sent astronauts to the moon's surface between 1969 and 1972, two presidential administrations after Kennedy's. (Republican President Richard Nixon, who was in office during the Apollo moon landings, is not mentioned in the Trump video.)

"This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them," Kennedy said at Rice University on Sept. 12, 1962, in a quote that plays in the Trump video over footage of the Apollo 11 moon landing in 1969. The Trump video also included Kennedy's more famous quote from the speech: "We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard."

The Trump reelection campaign released the new video as the president faces a wave of criticism for advocating force in response to ongoing demonstrations across the United States. The protests erupted after George Floyd was killed May 25 when Derek Chauvin, then a Minneapolis police officer, pressed his knee on Floyd's neck for several minutes in the presence of other officers. 

Chauvin was fired on May 26; he was arrested and charged with third-degree murder (later increased to second-degree) and second-degree manslaughter on Friday (May 29). Meanwhile Floyd's death sparked outrage due to the long history of police brutality against Black people. On May 29, Trump posted a tweet that was flagged by Twitter's moderators and has been interpreted as encouraging violence against the protesters.

SpaceX attempted to launch its NASA astronaut mission May 27, the day after Chauvin was fired, but scrubbed for weather. The successful launch took place the day after Chauvin's arrest, as protests continued. During a post-launch press conference, several reporters asked NASA representatives whether the United States could celebrate the accomplishment in space given the national reckoning about race-biased police violence. After the launch, Trump began his speech on SpaceX's success with remarks on Floyd's death.

In typical Trump fashion he managed to ruin BOTH messages by only focusing on how it could help HIM.

But it was a well produced video so why don't those LIBRULS focus on that??!?! 


"stop politicizing" indeed.
"GTFO" indeed.

[fredtoast]

(06-06-2020, 10:04 AM)bfine32 Wrote: But if you think we should discuss the entirety of the message let's look at what Trump said at the launching of Space X. He took attention away from a hom a huge event that he knew would be viewed nationally to draw attention to the matter:


The violence and vandalism is being led by Antifa and other radical left wing groups who are terrorizing the innocent, destroying jobs, hurting businesses and burning down buildings.

You mean "spread lies" instead of "draw attention".

He dishonored the brave astronauts by turning that speech into political propaganda.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

I’d like to say the George Floyd murder was horrific and you can count me as an ally and there will be an investigation.

WHEW! I’m plum tuckered out by the “plenty” of stuff I just did to calm the situation. Took me less than 30 seconds to accomplish Trump’s agenda.

LMAO

[*bfine32*]

(06-06-2020, 11:06 AM)fredtoast Wrote: You mean "spread lies" instead of "draw attention".

He dishonored the brave astronauts by turning that speech into political propaganda.

He dishonored the astronauts by ending like this:

Quote:It was a great honor for me to deliver this speech. God bless our brave astronauts now soaring through the heavens. God bless the men and women of NASA and God bless America. Thank you very much.

 No amount of being mad at Trump changes my original assertion in this thread. The way ahead should be to hold those responsible accountable, not to create red herrings to fulfill a political stance. This crime and the aftermath are no more Trump's fault than those that occurred during Obama were his fault. Folks just see an opportunity to fulfill a political agenda. They're no better than the looters; using a tragedy for personal gain. 

[*bfine32*]

(06-06-2020, 11:02 AM)fredtoast Wrote: The church getting burned got just as much coverage as the dozens of other buildiungs across the coun try that got burned.

What does that have to do with Trumps actions against innocent protestors?

Nothing.  It is just some lame attempt to deflect from the fact that he used vilonce against innocent, non-violent protestors just to get a photo op infron of a church.

Protesters were told to clear an area where POTUS was going to appear. I've clearly said that the walk was worthy of condemnation on its own merit, but folks are not satisfied with that; they must go to "Trump gassed and used violence against peaceful protesters!!!!!". Not one person there was gassed because they were protesting. They were allowed to protest all day, they were gassed for refusing to follow instructions from the police and secret service.

What is your recommendation for the police and secret service if folks fail to follow your verbal requests to evacuate? 

[GMDino]

(06-06-2020, 11:23 AM)bfine32 Wrote: He dishonored the astronauts by ending like this:




 No amount of being mad at Trump changes my original assertion in this thread. The way ahead should be to hold those responsible accountable, not to create red herrings to fulfill a political stance. This crime and the aftermath are no more Trump's fault than those that occurred during Obama were his fault. Folks just see an opportunity to fulfill a political agenda. They're no better than the looters; using a tragedy for personal gain. 

How about saying Mr. Floyd would be happy with the job numbers yesterday?

Is that "helping"?  Is that a "political agenda"?

Bootlickers gonna bootlick.  

[GMDino]

(06-06-2020, 11:29 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Protesters were told to clear an area where POTUS was going to appear. I've clearly said that the walk was worthy of condemnation on its own merit, but folks are not satisfied with that; they must go to "Trump gassed and used violence against peaceful protesters!!!!!". Not one person there was gassed because they were protesting. They were allowed to protest all day, they were gassed for refusing to follow instructions from the police and secret service.

What is your recommendation for the police and secret service if folks fail to follow your verbal requests to evacuate? 

Your strongly worded single sentence does not change the fact that:

Quote:"Trump gassed and used violence against peaceful protesters!!!!!"

At lest you got it right that they weren't gassed because they were protesting.  The were gassed because Trump was grumpy that people thought he was scared while hiding inspecting his bunker so he had to stand in front of church, hold a bible upside down and walk away without saying a word.

"political agenda" indeed.

[*bfine32*]

(06-06-2020, 11:30 AM)GMDino Wrote: How about saying Mr. Floyd would be happy with the job numbers yesterday?

Is that "helping"?  Is that a "political agenda"?

Bootlickers gonna bootlick.  

Well I can plainly say: I've said no such thing. But yeah, those people should be as ashamed as others trying to make this political.....You know the type

[GMDino]

(06-05-2020, 10:03 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Are we reading the same thread? 

As to the rest: he's tried plenty to calm the situation.

He called the murder of Floyd horrific

He told peaceful protesters they have an allies in him

He directed his DOJ to conduct a full investigation

 

Unless of course your boy can try and make a peaceful protest into something it wasn't.  Right?

...We should be standing up straight and tall, ideally with a salute, or a hand on heart. There are other things you can protest, but not our Great American Flag - NO KNEELING!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) June 5, 2020

 


Breees responded.


https://www.instagram.com/p/CBE4y_9Hj2S/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link



[/url]drewbrees
Verified

Quote:To [url=https://www.instagram.com/realdonaldtrump/]@realdonaldtrump
Through my ongoing conversations with friends, teammates, and leaders in the black community, I realize this is not an issue about the American flag. It has never been. We can no longer use the flag to turn people away or distract them from the real issues that face our black communities.

We did this back in 2017, and regretfully I brought it back with my comments this week. We must stop talking about the flag and shift our attention to the real issues of systemic racial injustice, economic oppression, police brutality, and judicial & prison reform.
We are at a critical juncture in our nation’s history! If not now, then when?

We as a white community need to listen and learn from the pain and suffering of our black communities. We must acknowledge the problems, identify the solutions, and then put this into action. The black community cannot do it alone. This will require all of us.

"political agenda" indeed.


As to the other two items on your list:

1) Calling is horrific is the simply stating the obvious. Given Trump's well know lack of vocabulary I'm just surprised he didn't throw two or three "very" in in front it.

2) He had a choice? It's on video. The nation was rising up about it. You'll have to excuse those of us who don't stand up and applaud when Trump does something he was supposed to do instead of crapping his pants. He just crapped them later for his "political agenda".

"GTFO" indeed.

[GMDino]

(06-06-2020, 10:04 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I brought up Obama's words about Trayvon Martin in response to this:

 "Obama didn't actively try to paint the problem as all 'the other guy,"

Obama's thoughts about what "his" son would look like clearly did that

But if you think we should discuss the entirety of the message let's look at what Trump said at the launching of Space X. He took attention away from a hom a huge event that he knew would be viewed nationally to draw attention to the matter:

I am curious, not that you'll answer, but I am curious how Obama's empathy and concern for Martin was "blaming the other guy"?  Who was he blaming?  Bush? White people?  

Obama has children and knows how to love.  He spoke from the heart and with emotion.

I realize most Trump supporters don't like that.  They want a "tough guy" who can't remember his son'sname sometimes.

But I'm at a loss for how it painting the problem as all "the other guy".

[*bfine32*]

(06-06-2020, 12:18 PM)GMDino Wrote: Unless of course your boy can try and make a peaceful protest into something it wasn't.  Right?

...We should be standing up straight and tall, ideally with a salute, or a hand on heart. There are other things you can protest, but not our Great American Flag - NO KNEELING!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) June 5, 2020

 


Breees responded.


https://www.instagram.com/p/CBE4y_9Hj2S/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link



[url=https://www.instagram.com/drewbrees/][/url]drewbrees
Verified




"political agenda" indeed.


As to the other two items on your list:

1) Calling is horrific is the simply stating the obvious.  Given Trump's well know lack of vocabulary I'm just surprised he didn't throw two or three "very" in in front it.

2)  He had a choice?  It's on video.  The nation was rising up about it.  You'll have to excuse those of us who don't stand up and applaud when Trump does something he was supposed to do instead of crapping his pants.  He just crapped them later for his "political agenda".

"GTFO" indeed.

I don't think you need to sell anyone of your views as Trump as a person and POTUS; however, you're kinda proving my point.

I'll say it again: Trump is no more responsible for what happened to George Floyd than Obama was for Michael Brown, Freddie Gray, and others. Folks making it political are not worried about discovering a truth. 

[fredtoast]

(06-06-2020, 11:29 AM)bfine32 Wrote: What is your recommendation for the police and secret service if folks fail to follow your verbal requests to evacuate? 

Well, if the President is a friend and supporter of the protestors you don't do anything.  Instead the President would alter his plans or speak to the crowd himself to get them to disperse.  What do you think it means to be a "friend and supporter" of a group?  Does it mean you address them and try to work WITH them or deos it mean you tear gass them and shoot them with rubber bullets?

And you can't just ignore the fact that the protestors were attacked just because the Presdent wanted a photo op.  That makes the whole story even more disgusting.  He wasn't going to a church to pray or worship.  He was just usuing the church as a tool for political propaganda.  Does that justify attacking non-violent protestors?