Terrorist act in Orlando

[JustWinBaby]

(06-15-2016, 01:00 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Oh, I had no idea she had a facebook account, Retract everything I said. 

Well, you apologizing for her assuming she lived in a closed culture when she very clearly didn't.  So, yeah, you should retract what you said because it was horribly wrong and pathetic.

[Griever]

(06-15-2016, 02:01 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Well, you apologizing for her assuming she lived in a closed culture when she very clearly didn't.  So, yeah, you should retract what you said because it was horribly wrong and pathetic.

i think thats the closest ive seen dude admit he could be wrong

worst part is, all those kind and/or injured, are now all outed to their family, friends, and coworkers

some might even lose their jobs

[Rotobeast]

(06-15-2016, 12:58 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Well, AWB also prohibited high-capacity magazines. So an AWB would also limit the ability to purchase those sorts of things.

You are correct.

Not to make you feel uneasy, but it's really not hard to modify magazines.
I've known guys that have fabricated some form scratch.

[*rfaulk34*]

(06-14-2016, 07:33 PM)bfine32 Wrote: This is easy for us to say because we were brought up in the Western culture. This woman most likely feared for her life and there is a chance she feared for the lives of her family, if she said anything to anyone. Hell she probably risked her life by trying to talk him out of it.  

That's the first thing i thought when reading comments from all the people *gathering torches and pitchforks.

*=purposeful hyperbole (for anyone rhat would waste time commenting on the phrase used)

[masterpanthera_t]

(06-15-2016, 02:01 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Well, you apologizing for her assuming she lived in a closed culture when she very clearly didn't.  So, yeah, you should retract what you said because it was horribly wrong and pathetic.

I think both of you are right and wrong to some extent. Maybe "right" or "wrong" isn't the correct way to say this, but here's my two cents.


I think bfine is correct in that there is a closed culture in some parts of American Islam ( however, I do know he didn't say this, but he seemed to imply that this is widespread, again, apologies if I mischaracterized your opinion). The percentage of this "closed" culture within the larger group of American Islam is where we need more information prior to ascribing characteristics to this whole group. Bfine is absolutely correct in stating (or implying) that in this particular case, the disturbed man who committed this atrocity was definitely part of a closed culture. I'm sure some Afghans and Somalis among others fit into this description (but to what extent needs to be known further). 

You might be right to say that she is westernized ( and I think that a majority of the second generation of American Muslims with parents who were raised in a foreign culture) have a great deal of western qualities in them, considering most of their life if not all of it was spent in western schools and other community areas growing up with and around Americans. 

I also think that Bfine is likely correct in that she probably feared for her life. However, this is not only limited to her culture. There are plenty of battered women (I understand this is not a discussion of domestic violence) of western and non-western culture who would fear for their life or the safety of their family due to their husbands/boyfriend etc. However, the fact that she has a facebook account etc. shows neither that she was or wasn't from a closed culture nor anything necessarily about  her mental state of fear.  

I guess I'm saying that we need to post more info before we can say one way or another for sure.

[Rotobeast]

(06-15-2016, 02:09 PM)Griever Wrote: i think thats the closest ive seen dude admit he could be wrong

worst part is, all those kind and/or injured, are now all outed to their family, friends, and coworkers

some might even lose their jobs

How are they "outed" ?
You don't HAVE to be gay to go into a "gay bar".
Quite honestly, I think they are cleaner, nicer, and the drinks are cheaper.
Yes, I've been in a few.
I can do that because I'm married to a good woman and have always been a confident heterosexual.

[JustWinBaby]

(06-15-2016, 02:53 PM)masterpanthera_t Wrote: I also think that Bfine is likely correct in that she probably feared for her life. However, this is not only limited to her culture. There are plenty of battered women (I understand this is not a discussion of domestic violence) of western and non-western culture who would fear for their life or the safety of their family due to their husbands/boyfriend etc. 

I get what you're saying, but screw her safety and fearing for her life.  49 people are dead - you don't get to play the battered woman card when it comes to a mass terrorist attack.  It may save her from the death penalty, but should not from life in prison.

[masterpanthera_t]

(06-15-2016, 03:00 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: I get what you're saying, but screw her safety and fearing for her life.  49 people are dead - you don't get to play the battered woman card when it comes to a mass terrorist attack.  It may save her from the death penalty, but should not from life in prison.

My point in the previous post was to show that she may or may not be from a closed culture.  Not about her culpability.  As I have posted in other threads, we need to hold her just as accountable legally as I would hope that any other American in a similar situation would be held. I would defer to more legally well versed posters to interject as to what extent her state of mind might be used to alter the degree to which she is prosecuted.

[SteelCitySouth]

I don't get what's happening here at all....Do you (rfaulk and Bfine) believe that, if all the reports are correct, she should not be arrested and held responsible?

[Griever]

i think they are saying that if its true, her being scared could be used as a "get out of really bad trouble" free card

which is horse shit by the way

[Belsnickel]

(06-15-2016, 02:49 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: You are correct.

Not to make you feel uneasy, but it's really not hard to modify magazines.
I've known guys that have fabricated some form scratch.

Oh, I know. I won't go into exactly how I know, but I know. Of course, a modified magazine often isn't as reliable in its feeding once it's been kajiggered with.

[Rotobeast]

(06-15-2016, 03:30 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Oh, I know. I won't go into exactly how I know, but I know. Of course, a modified magazine often isn't as reliable in its feeding once it's been kajiggered with.

Once again, consensus.

[SteelCitySouth]

(06-15-2016, 03:30 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Oh, I know. I won't go into exactly how I know, but I know. Of course, a modified magazine often isn't as reliable in its feeding once it's been kajiggered with.

(06-15-2016, 03:44 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: Once again, consensus.

You guys gotta stop kajiggering with each others magazines....seriously.  

[*jason*]

(06-15-2016, 03:47 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: You guys gotta stop kajiggering with each others magazines....seriously.  

They sound like terrorists talking shop...

[Belsnickel]

(06-15-2016, 03:56 PM)jason Wrote: They sound like terrorists talking shop...

Excuse me, freedom fighters.

[Rotobeast]

(06-15-2016, 03:59 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Excuse me, freedom fighters.

Yes... and admiring engineering is not a terrible thing.

[*bfine32*]

(06-15-2016, 03:23 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: I don't get what's happening here at all....Do you (rfaulk and Bfine) believe that, if all the reports are correct, she should not be arrested and held responsible?

Of course she is accountable; however, there very well may be mitigating circumstances. Here's a little more about her:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/orlando-shooting-wife-noor-salman-bought-ammo-with-omar-mateen/

This article tends to show she was brought up in ultra-conservative fashion (not allowed to play, drive, ect...) and her first marriage was "arranged".

The is further evidence of ther control this monster had over her.

I just wanted to give insight to a possibility. I have seen it first hand. These women are not allowed to be 'people".

[SteelCitySouth]

(06-15-2016, 04:12 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course she is accountable; however, there very well may be mitigating circumstances. Here's a little more about her:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/orlando-shooting-wife-noor-salman-bought-ammo-with-omar-mateen/

This article tends to show she was brought up in ultra-conservative fashion (not allowed to play, drive, ect...) and her first marriage was "arranged".

The is further evidence of ther control this monster had over her.

I just wanted to give insight to a possibility. I have seen it first hand. These women are not allowed to be 'people".

I don't doubt any of that.  I never spoke to any of it.  I merely pointed out that if the reports were true, she should be arrested and charged.  It still changes nothing, as it relates to her culpability, in the end.

[Griever]

(06-15-2016, 04:12 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course she is accountable; however, there very well may be mitigating circumstances. Here's a little more about her:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/orlando-shooting-wife-noor-salman-bought-ammo-with-omar-mateen/

This article tends to show she was brought up in ultra-conservative fashion (not allowed to play, drive, ect...) and her first marriage was "arranged".

The is further evidence of ther control this monster had over her.

I just wanted to give insight to a possibility. I have seen it first hand. These women are not allowed to be 'people".

she still made a choice not to do anything about it, and should be charged with 40+ counts of accessory to murder and whatever the equivalent would be for the attempted murder of 53 others

she doesnt get off easy for this

[Belsnickel]

(06-15-2016, 04:25 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: I don't doubt any of that.  I never spoke to any of it.  I merely pointed out that if the reports were true, she should be arrested and charged.  It still changes nothing, as it relates to her culpability, in the end.

(06-15-2016, 04:31 PM)Griever Wrote: she still made a choice not to do anything about it, and should be charged with 40+ counts of accessory to murder and whatever the equivalent would be for the attempted murder of 53 others

she doesnt get off easy for this

I think it should be pointed out that what is being advocated for here is charging her. If during the trial there is evidence presented that points to her state of mind due to her upbringing etc., etc., and she is acquitted, then that's all gravy to me. But I think this should be run through the system.