The Tolerant Left at it again....again

[*bfine32*]

A group of citizens applied for and was granted a permit by the city of Seattle to hold a rally protesting the censorship of free speech by some platforms. AKA a 1st Amendment rally to support the 1st Amendment.

So a bunch of woke folk show up and violently shut it down because.....wait for it.......this is good........They're against fascism!!

https://news.yahoo.com/free-speech-rally-organizer-attendees-131705837.html

Quote:A free speech rally organized by conservative activists in San Francisco was canceled on Saturday after several hundred counterprotesters swarmed the demonstration and attacked the group.

[Belsnickel]

People act like the entire "left" purports to be tolerant. There is a large portion that never claimed to be tolerant, and I'm betting those folks were among them.

[*Nately120*]

(10-19-2020, 02:37 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: People act like the entire "left" purports to be tolerant. There is a large portion that never claimed to be tolerant, and I'm betting those folks were among them.

Yeah, left or right I'd say the types who violently shut down stuff are proudly intolerant and view the things they do not tolerate as being wrong and needing to be snuffed out.  

Folks like this see compromise and tolerance as weakness or lying down to the enemy...but I'm not one of 'em so maybe they think they're tolerant as hell.

[BmorePat87]

(10-19-2020, 02:37 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: People act like the entire "left" purports to be tolerant. There is a large portion that never claimed to be tolerant, and I'm betting those folks were among them.

Antifa is "the left" according to the same people who say that you can't ever call Q Anon, Proud Boys, 3 percenters, or any other alt Right groups "the right".

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-19-2020, 02:25 PM)bfine32 Wrote: A group of citizens applied for and was granted a permit by the city of Seattle to hold a rally protesting the censorship of free speech by some platforms. AKA a 1st Amendment rally to support the 1st Amendment.

So a bunch of woke folk show up and violently shut it down because.....wait for it.......this is good........They're against fascism!!

https://news.yahoo.com/free-speech-rally-organizer-attendees-131705837.html

Sounds like the plot of a movie . . .

[Dill]

(10-19-2020, 02:37 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: People act like the entire "left" purports to be tolerant. There is a large portion that never claimed to be tolerant,* and I'm betting those folks were among them.

Part of the confusion comes from calling everyone except the far right "the left." 

Liberal Republicans, moderate Democrats and a lot of actual leftists preach tolerance and listen to the other side--the majority of the country in fact-- but in right wing discourse all are lumped all together as "the left." 

Then when ANTIFA and fellow travelers shut down a speech somewhere, we hear about "leftist hypocrisy" from people not really interested in sorting out the political spectrum.


*I don't know that there is a "large portion of the left that never claimed to be tolerant."  There is not a very large left in the US, and in my estimation most of those are non-violent groups/individuals who support tolerance. Perhaps this depends upon how one defines and counts the left. I have counted you a leftist on this message board, along with my self and a few others, like Dino. But none of us has yet supported suppression of free speech that I am aware of.

[Belsnickel]

(10-19-2020, 03:43 PM)Dill Wrote: *I don't know that there is a "large portion of the left that never claimed to be tolerant."  There is not a very large left in the US, and in my estimation most of those are non-violent groups/individuals who support tolerance. Perhaps this depends upon how one defines and counts the left. I have counted you a leftist on this message board, along with my self and a few others, like Dino. But none of us has yet supported suppression of free speech that I am aware of.

It also depends on how you define tolerant and where you draw the line. Trump tics the fascist boxes pretty well, so do we have to tolerate support of fascism? This is a very serious question because fascism is a little bit different than just the difference between conservatism and liberalism.

Don't misconstrue this with me supporting the violence against protesters, this is merely me discussing the question of where tolerance really ends.

[Dill]

(10-19-2020, 04:06 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: It also depends on how you define tolerant and where you draw the line. Trump tics the fascist boxes pretty well, so do we have to tolerate support of fascism? This is a very serious question because fascism is a little bit different than just the difference between conservatism and liberalism.

Well said, though I think Trump better described as "authoritarian populist."  

One thing that makes fascists so dangerous is the dedication to a cause outside themselves, and their willingness to sacrifice their lives for it, be remembered as martyrs to the nation. 

Trump doesn't check that box. 

Anyway, I think your post re-focuses the question to a more interesting place--namely how we define "tolerance." Americans are generally tolerant and don't think much about exceptions to tolerance, though most everyone appears to grant them.

[*bfine32*]

I've always had issue with "counter protests" occurring at he same place as the protest, regardless of the reason for the planned protest.

[fredtoast]

(10-19-2020, 03:02 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Antifa is "the left" according to the same people who say that you can't ever call Q Anon, Proud Boys, 3 percenters, or any other alt Right groups "the right".

Big Rep..

[*bfine32*]

(10-19-2020, 03:02 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Antifa is "the left" according to the same people who say that you can't ever call Q Anon, Proud Boys, 3 percenters, or any other alt Right groups "the right".

Our first "both sides do it". 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-19-2020, 05:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Our first "both sides do it". 

Actually, post #1 was the first “both sides do it” post.

[fredtoast]

(10-19-2020, 05:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Our first "both sides do it". 

You need to read that a little closer.  He is not saying "both sides".  He is just talking about the blind extremist on "both sides".

So instead of painting either side with a broad brush he is just talking about ALL THE BLIND EXTREMISTS. 

[BmorePat87]

(10-19-2020, 06:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You need to read that a little closer.  He is not saying "both sides".  He is just talking about the blind extremist on "both sides".

So instead of painting either side with a broad brush he is just talking about ALL THE BLIND EXTREMISTS. 

Yea, I'm most certainly not saying "both sides do it".

I am specifically criticizing anyone who would characterizes "the left" based on the actions of Antifa, which is an illogical argument, because they would never apply the same terrible logic when it came to "the right" and right wing extremism.

The entire premise of the thread is asinine, but I suspect it was entirely bait. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(10-19-2020, 07:31 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Yea, I'm most certainly not saying "both sides do it".

I am specifically criticizing anyone who would characterizes "the left" based on the actions of Antifa, which is an illogical argument, because they would never apply the same terrible logic when it came to "the right" and right wing extremism.

The entire premise of the thread is asinine, but I suspect it was entirely bait. 

I think a significant reason for this is that antifa gets a lot of positive spin in the media.  At the very least their excesses don't get nearly the coverage that their actions would normally command.  You also get people, some of them here, comparing them to the men who fought in WW2, which is a horrible insult to the memory of those brave men, almost all of whom would find the actions of antifa utterly repellant.  I think if antifa got the same amount of negative media coverage that a group like the proud boys get then you'd see a lot fewer people lumping antifa in with the more mainstream left.

[BmorePat87]

(10-19-2020, 07:55 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I think a significant reason for this is that antifa gets a lot of positive spin in the media.  At the very least their excesses don't get nearly the coverage that their actions would normally command.  You also get people, some of them here, comparing them to the men who fought in WW2, which is a horrible insult to the memory of those brave men, almost all of whom would find the actions of antifa utterly repellant.  I think if antifa got the same amount of negative media coverage that a group like the proud boys get then you'd see a lot fewer people lumping antifa in with the more mainstream left.

Regardless of our personal views on media coverage, I don't think anyone on here can credibly use the media as an excuse for their personal decision to make that characterization. 

[*bfine32*]

(10-19-2020, 07:31 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Yea, I'm most certainly not saying "both sides do it".

I am specifically criticizing anyone who would characterizes "the left" based on the actions of Antifa, which is an illogical argument, because they would never apply the same terrible logic when it came to "the right" and right wing extremism.

The entire premise of the thread is asinine, but I suspect it was entirely bait. 

No doubt. It's why I'm impressed with you and others calling out the counter-demonstration instead of deflecting......

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(10-19-2020, 08:06 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Regardless of our personal views on media coverage, I don't think anyone on here can credibly use the media as an excuse for their personal decision to make that characterization. 

Sure, but most of us are much more informed than the general populace.  I was providing my explanation for why this characterization is so popular.  


Antifa are complete asshats, one of those POS's punched my friend in the face for zero reason.  This is a person who is very left leaning, she's about as non-violent as it gets.  One of them punched her in the face because they assumed she was a Trump supporter, although she has zero idea why.  Then the guy's (yea a guy) group laughed about it and told her to go home.  I literally loathe the kid gloves treatment that group gets in the media.

[GMDino]

(10-19-2020, 08:10 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Sure, but most of us are much more informed than the general populace.  I was providing my explanation for why this characterization is so popular.  


Antifa are complete asshats, one of those POS's punched my friend in the face for zero reason.  This is a person who is very left leaning, she's about as non-violent as it gets.  One of them punched her in the face because they assumed she was a Trump supporter, although she has zero idea why.  Then the guy's (yea a guy) group laughed about it and told her to go home.  I literally loathe the kid gloves treatment that group gets in the media.

You should arrest that guy.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(10-19-2020, 08:20 PM)GMDino Wrote: You should arrest that guy.

Not sure if you're being smarmy or not, but this occurred in Portland and I work in the Los Angeles area.  You're right though, someone should have.