The long Western legacy of violence against Asian Americans

[GMDino]

(03-15-2021, 10:12 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I didn’t defend white people.  I said let’s quit pretending this isn’t about white people.

Didn't say you did.  I said the article says western and people assumed white people and I didn't make that assumption and to me it doesn't matter what race the attackers are or why people who read "western" make that assumption.

I read about attacks on Asians and thought they were bad.

One person, however, immediate responded not about the attacks but feels the need to say it's not only about white people when no one said it was.

[hollodero]

(03-15-2021, 08:24 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Are we trying to pretend western isn’t code (I know the love of identifying codes and dog whistles) for white Europeans or of white European descent?

On the other hand though. Whenever some hard right-wing pundits talk about the superiority of western culture or muse about the need to defend western civilization, said pundits are deeply offended by the mere assumption they meant "white" by "western" too.

If western means white always seems to depend on who wants to attack and defend which side.

[*michaelsean*]

(03-15-2021, 10:25 PM)hollodero Wrote: On the other hand though. Whenever some hard right-wing pundits talk about the superiority of western culture or muse about the need to defend western civilization, said pundits are deeply offended by the mere assumption they meant "white" by "western" too.

If western means white always seems to depend on who wants to attack and defend which side.

And “western” would certainly be one of those infamous dog whistles we hear so much about.

Btw...kinda late isn’t it?

[GMDino]

(03-15-2021, 10:32 PM)michaelsean Wrote: And “western” would certainly be one of those infamous dog whistles we hear so much about.

Btw...kinda late isn’t it?

If people are triggered by "western" as "white" I suppose it could be.  And it still wouldn't be worth talking about with the subject of the article.

I mean he literally went looking to see how the suspects were described just to make it about white people.   He worked HARD to make it about white people...when the subject is attacks on Asians.

If it takes that much work to make a "point" there was not a point to be made.

And with that I'll stop defending something that isn't there.

Maybe I'll go to bed since dad's watching the clock for me!  

[*michaelsean*]

(03-15-2021, 10:37 PM)GMDino Wrote: If people are triggered by "western" as "white" I suppose it could be.  And it still wouldn't be worth talking about with the subject of the article.

I mean he literally went looking to see how the suspects were described just to make it about white people.   He worked HARD to make it about white people...when the subject is attacks on Asians.

If it takes that much work to make a "point" there was not a point to be made.

And with that I'll stop defending something that isn't there.



Maybe I'll go to bed since dad's watching the clock for me!  

I wasn’t triggered. I wrote nothing to suggest that.

Uhhh...I was watching the click on our Austrian friend.

[hollodero]

(03-15-2021, 10:32 PM)michaelsean Wrote: And “western” would certainly be one of those infamous dog whistles we hear so much about.

Btw...kinda late isn’t it?

Yeah it is. Those dog whistles keep me up.

Imho, if western is a dog whistle rather depends on overall context than solely on the word itself.

Eg. taking issue with a western legacy of violence against Asians rings a bit different than expressing a need to defend western culture against Ilhan Omar. 
Not that nuance matters much in a black and white society, no pun intended. It's all about making a point against some disliked groups or ideologies. It goes both ways and these are tiresome debates, guess I'd rather actually go to sleep then.

[GMDino]

(03-15-2021, 10:25 PM)hollodero Wrote: On the other hand though. Whenever some hard right-wing pundits talk about the superiority of western culture or muse about the need to defend western civilization, said pundits are deeply offended by the mere assumption they meant "white" by "western" too.

If western means white always seems to depend on who wants to attack and defend which side.

Would the addition of "culture" change it?

Western to me in the context of the story was vs Eastern.  I just didn't assume "white".  

But then I also look at the source.  If Tucker Carlson is talking about "western culture" it's clear what he means vs say this article saying "western".

I'd rather discuss the rise in attacks and why, less than who.

[GMDino]

(03-15-2021, 10:41 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I wasn’t triggered.  I wrote nothing to suggest that.

Uhhh...I was watching the click on our Austrian friend.

I didn't even see he had responded when I responded to you....

And I said if "people" are triggered.  If you are not then I'm not talking about you.

[hollodero]

(03-15-2021, 10:46 PM)GMDino Wrote: Would the addition of "culture" change it?

Western to me in the context of the story was vs Eastern.  I just didn't assume "white".  

But then I also look at the source.  If Tucker Carlson is talking about "western culture" it's clear what he means vs say this article saying "western".

I'd rather discuss the rise in attacks and why, less than who.

I know what you meant. I don't feel a need to take issue with it.

The rise has much to do with Corona, and probably is additionally fueled by a recent presidency that made a point of calling Corona China Virus and Kung Flu and accused China to pay millions to his bitter criminal globalist elitist rival and all that.

The underlying issue is xenophobia, which probably is more of an issue within the right than within the left. I mean, no matter any initial intention, in the end it's always about that question, isn't it, I just shortcut it here. Is it the right or is it the left, dicuss everything under that lens.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(03-15-2021, 10:37 PM)GMDino Wrote: If people are triggered by "western" as "white" I suppose it could be.  And it still wouldn't be worth talking about with the subject of the article.

Of course it would.  If "western culture" is to blame for these attacks should we not understand how and by whom?

Quote:I mean he literally went looking to see how the suspects were described just to make it about white people.   He worked HARD to make it about white people...when the subject is attacks on Asians.

100% bullshit.  It takes literally no effort to note that "western culture" is routinely used by the left to state "white".  It takes even less effort to note that the attacker of the person the article is based on is labeled as "white" but the attackers in all other noted instances have no specified ethnicities.  Oh, and none of them were white.

Quote:If it takes that much work to make a "point" there was not a point to be made.

Only for you, as you apparently can't grasp the simple correlation between the people attacking victims of Asian descent and actually solving the problem of people attacking people of Asian decent.

Quote:And with that I'll stop defending something that isn't there.

No you won't, as it's all you've ever done on this sub forum.  From not seeing a gun pointed at a police officer that everyone else saw to not seeing how understanding who is attacking Asians is important to stopping attacks on Asians.  Quite simply, your self loathing routine is disturbing to read.

Quote:Maybe I'll go to bed since dad's watching the clock for me!  

He wasn't taking to you, genius. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(03-15-2021, 10:53 PM)hollodero Wrote: The underlying issue is xenophobia, which probably is more of an issue within the right than within the left. I mean, no matter any initial intention, in the end it's always about that question, isn't it, I just shortcut it here. Is it the right or is it the left, dicuss everything under that lens.

I think this is one of those issues in which your being European is going to hinder your understanding.  There is a huge current of racism in the US and its tributaries flow through all ethnicities.  Europe has been largely homogenous until very recently, and look how many fissures this change has, and is, causing.  Now understand that this process has been going on in the US, to varying degrees, for well over a hundred years.  There is very deep seated racism in minority communities here (as well as majority communities, but that is discussed constantly) and it affects people on a daily basis.  I've shared the story before, but the most openly racist thing I've ever heard someone utter in person was a Hispanic mother talking about her black neighbors.  That there is deep seated racism against Asians in other minority communities in the US is common knowledge, the media just pretends it doesn't exist.

This all goes back to my original point.  Are the attacks on Asians something you want to actually stop or not?  If the answer is yes then you've got to address the whole issue, not just what is palatable to your editors.  Failing to address the issue, in its entirety, is the same as not addressing the issue at all.  There's a very common trend in the media here, if it's not a white person doing it than it can't be racist.  This is obviously as ridiculous as it is impossible, but it is Biblical truth to many here, which is why things only continue to worsen.  GM is a perfect example of this, he's so terrified of being labeled an enemy that he'll parrot anything he's told to ensure he's seen as an ally.  The minute you start ignoring unpalatable evidence is the moment you stop trying to seek true answers, and he stopped trying a hell of a long time ago.

[GMDino]

More on this rise is attacks.

https://time.com/5938482/asian-american-attacks/

We still have an issue with racism in this country.  One group still looking for another "different" group to take out their own frustrations on or to make them feel better about themselves by looking down on.

Quote:[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.95)]Hate Crimes Against Asian Americans Are on the Rise. Many Say More Policing Isn't the Answer[/color]

BY CADY LANG [/url]
 
FEBRUARY 18, 2021 7:00 AM EST
When Amanda Nguyen saw the video, she was horrified. In the Jan. 28 security footage, 84-year-old Vicha Ratanapakdee was shoved to the ground while taking his morning walk in San Francisco; just two days after the assault, he died. (Nineteen-year-old Antoine Watson has since been charged with and pleaded not guilty to murder and elder abuse.) It was one of several incidents of physical violence against Asian American elders in recent weeks across the U.S., but Nguyen had yet to see coverage by a major news outlet about the concerning increase in violence towards the Asian American and Pacific Islander community, following a year of xenophobic rhetoric and racist attacks amid the pandemic.

“I was mad, like blood boiling through my veins now, watching my community get slaughtered,” says Nguyen, a civil rights activist who was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize for her work in advocating for sexual assault survivors. “How many more people need to be killed in order for the news outlets, especially mainstream ones, to think that we’re worthy of a story?”
In response, Nguyen made an Instagram video where she implored her viewers to speak out about Ratanapakdee’s death, as well as the assault of a 64-year-old Vietnamese grandmother who was assaulted and robbed in San Jose, Calif., and the attack on a 61-year-old Filipino man whose face was slashed with a box cutter on a New York City subway. Nguyen’s video went viral as more reports of violent attacks and robberies emerged, including one of a 91-year-old man who was caught on camera being thrown to the ground in Oakland Chinatown, where there have been upwards of 20 violent attacks and robberies reported since January.

Since the start of the pandemic last spring, Asian Americans have faced racist violence at a much higher rate than previous years. The NYPD reported that hate crimes motivated by anti-Asian sentiment jumped 1,900% in New York City in 2020. Stop AAPI Hate, a reporting database created at the beginning of the pandemic as a response to the increase in racial violence, received 2,808 reports of anti-Asian discrimination between March 19 and December 31, 2020. The violence has continued into 2021, and President Joe Biden signed an executive order denouncing anti-Asian discrimination shortly after taking office in January. While anti-Asian violence has taken place nationwide and particularly in major cities, the uptick in attacks in 2021 has been particularly focused in the Bay Area, especially in San Francisco and Oakland’s Chinatowns.

Read More: 10 Asian Americans Reflect on Racism During the Pandemic and the Need for Equality

Many attribute the 2020 uptick to the xenophobic rhetoric of Biden’s predecessor; former President Trump repeatedly referred to COVID-19 as “the China virus,” blaming the country for the pandemic. In doing so, Trump followed in a long American history of using diseases to justify anti-Asian xenophobia, one that dates back to the 19th and 20th centuries and has helped to shape perception of Asian Americans as “perpetual foreigners.”

“There’s a clear correlation between President Trump’s incendiary comments, his insistence on using the term ‘Chinese virus’ and the subsequent hate speech spread on social media and the hate violence directed towards us,” says Russell Jeung, a co-founder of Stop AAPI Hate and a professor of Asian American Studies at San Francisco State University. “It gives people license to attack us. The current spate of attacks on our elderly is part of how that rhetoric has impacted the broader population.”

Why the ‘model minority’ myth is harmful
Many have pointed out that racial violence against Asian Americans often goes overlooked because of persistent stereotypes about the community. “There is a stereotype and an assumption that Asian Americans have class privilege, that they have high socioeconomic status and education, and that any discrimination doesn’t really happen or feel legitimate,” says Bianca Mabute-Louie, a racial justice educator. “There are these assumptions about ways that Asian Americans have ‘succeeded’ in this country.”

Mabute-Louie cites the pervasiveness of the model minority myth as a large contributing factor to the current climate. That false idea, constructed during the Civil Rights era to stymie racial justice movements, suggests that Asian Americans are more successful than other ethnic minorities because of hard work, education and inherently law-abiding natures. “This contributes to erasing the very real interpersonal violence that we see happening in these videos, and that Asian Americans experience from the day-to-day, things that don’t get reported and the things that don’t get filmed.”

Read More: Asian Americans Are Still Caught in the Trap of the ‘Model Minority’ Stereotype

Because the model minority myth suggests upward mobility, it creates a fallacy that Asian Americans don’t experience struggle or racial discrimination, a stereotype that’s been bolstered by limited (and in some cases, flawed) media representation like the film Crazy Rich Asians and more recently, Netflix’s Bling Empire. In reality, the community is America’s most economically divided:[url=https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2018/07/12/income-inequality-in-the-u-s-is-rising-most-rapidly-among-asians/] a 2018 study by the Pew Research Center found that Asian Americans experience the largest income inequality gap as an ethnic and racial group in the U.S. and a 2016 report from NYC Mayor’s Office of Operations found that Asian immigrants have the highest poverty rates in the city.

 

Posters against racism towards Asian Americans, by artist Amanda Phingbodhipakkiya, are seen at the subway station at Barclays Center in Brooklyn, Jan. 1

Why more policing isn’t the answer
High-profile Asian Americans have helped draw attention to the recent surge in hate crimes: actors Daniel Dae Kim and Daniel Wu shared the video of the 91-year-old man being pushed down in Oakland Chinatown on Twitter, offering a $25,000 reward to anyone who could provide “information leading to the arrest and conviction” of the attacker, who had also pushed down a 60-year-old man, as well as a 55-year-old woman, who was left unconscious from the attack.


“The skyrocketing number of hate crimes against Asian Americans continues to grow, despite our repeated pleas for help,” Kim wrote in the tweet, going on to reference a Chinese American man who was beaten to death in 1982. “The crimes ignored and even excused. Remember Vincent Chin.”

The Oakland police later charged 28-year-old Yahya Muslim with assault, battery and elder abuse; he was already in custody for unrelated charges when he was identified. As a result, Kim and Wu donated the $25,000 to community organizations aimed at stopping anti-Asian hate.

Kim’s tweet brought up mixed feelings for many in the AAPI community. On one hand, Kim identified a longtime grievance for many Asian Americans—that violence against them has often been dismissed and that their struggles and even their existence often feel invisible to others in this country. Kim’s reference to the 1982 murder of Chin was a poignant reminder of a hate crime that led to a major mobilization for Asian Americans in the Civil Rights discourse, creating a significant wave of Asian American activism and a memorable point of solidarity with Black racial justice organizers.

Read More: The Asian American Response to Black Lives Matter Is Part of a Long, Complicated History

At the same time, however, Kim’s offer of a reward for identifying the person who attacked Asian American elders underscored another problem with addressing racial injustice in the U.S.: how to tackle anti-Asian violence without relying on law enforcement institutions that have historically targeted Black and brown communities. Many in the AAPI community were troubled by the actor’s social media post, given that the alleged attacker was a Black man. Kim Tran, a consultant and writer, voiced her disagreement with this tactic on Twitter.

“Listen, if you don’t understand why it’s problematic to offer 25k for information about a Black man in Oakland, I need you to stay off all the goddamned panels,” Tran wrote in a series of tweets. “This is the moment we need to ask ourselves, to what end? If it was for an accountability process, okay, but I highly doubt that. Lastly, this looks a lot like a bounty on a Black person funded by Asian American celebrities. I have major, major doubts.”


Tran’s tweets reflected a larger sentiment online from many Asian Americans that keeping their community safe should not mean turning to increased policing—especially in the wake of a national reckoning this summer with systemic police brutality and the disproportionate harm it causes Black and brown communities, who often share space with Asian Americans.

That perspective is informed by a long and complicated history between the Asian American and Black communities in the U.S., which has included both solidarity—like the Third World Liberation Front, which helped create equal education opportunities for students of color and the creation of ethnic studies—as well as interracial conflict. Mabute-Louie makes the case that fostering anti-Black sentiment or focusing on interracial conflict in this moment takes away from recognizing that racism is a result of white supremacy.

“If the bigger problem is anti-Asian sentiment, putting someone in jail doesn’t solve that problem,” she says, calling for an approach that allows perpetrators to be both held accountable and encouraged to change. “All of us really need to do work into our communities to unlearn these harmful narratives about each other.”

Solidarity and community-led efforts
Many community leaders have therefore taken a vocal stance on interracial solidarity. Oakland City Council president Nikki Fortunato Bas called for solidarity while condemning pitting communities of color against each other or increasing the police presence.

Others have turned to local organizations to show their support for the community during this painful time. For example, the Black Bay Area, an anti-gentrification group, raised funds to support Asian-led support organizations in San Francisco and Oakland. And the Anti-Police Terror Project, the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights and the Asian Pacific Environmental Network have joined forces on initiatives like recommending that people show their support by frequenting Chinatowns and their merchants and showing solidarity by wearing yellow. For the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights, supporting the AAPI community has been part of a longstanding relationship with the Asian Pacific Environmental Network, with whom they’ve worked with for over a decade to provide mutual aid to both communities in Oakland—an example of solidarity that’s long existed, but isn’t always highlighted.

“The reality of Black and Asian solidarity has a long history inside the Bay Area,” says Zach Norris, the executive director of the Ella Baker Center. “We want to remind folks of that and really look to the solutions that we think will be helpful in healing harm and moving forward in a way where all communities can thrive.”

Jeung, the Stop AAPI Hate co-founder, says community efforts and solidarity are the only ways to curb racist attacks. He participated in a racial peace rally in San Francisco and Oakland and is helping to organize strolls through Chinatown, where locals walk to provide a sense of safety and security for merchants and senior citizens,

“We know we need that this is an issue that affects all our communities, and we have to break the cycle of violence,” Jeung says. “And we’re calling not necessarily for more punitive measures but restorative justice models that break the cycle of violence, ethnic studies to teach people about racial solidarity, community mediation efforts to not only hold people accountable, but to work together to resolve issues.”

We need to speak out again the attacks while at the same time looking at the root socioeconomic causes that leads to a lot of the issues within he communities affected.

[*michaelsean*]

I don't think "The model American" image makes people think there isn't violence against Asians. If anything it would make me think there would be violence.

That whole part about the reward was just weird.

[GMDino]

(03-16-2021, 09:50 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I don't think "The model American" image makes people think there isn't violence against Asians.  If anything it would make me think there would be   violence.

That whole part about the reward was just weird.

I think that the article would agree that it doesn't help but that it can be used to disguise it by some people.

Like people who cite the "welfare queens" as a reason to gut the welfare system.  It doesn't have to be true, it just has to make the person using feel better about their position.  So if people think the Asian minority is "different" than other ones then they can ignore any racism directed at them because they are still "good".

The reward part just goes to show how racism crosses boundaries if someone is defensive about it.  If we have a video of a black person or a white person or a man or a woman committing a crime I see no racism is putting that out there.  But a person or a group who feels slighted in the past will be triggered to react without using the context of the specific example.

Like I said, we have a problem in this country and too many people try to just cover it up or pass the blame so they can feel better about their own selves/group.

And yes, I'm sure other countries have their own problems but this is about us here which why I am speaking solely to that.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(03-16-2021, 10:13 AM)GMDino Wrote: But a person or a group who feels slighted in the past will be triggered to react without using the context of the specific example.

Good lord this is an impressive word salad.  Maybe try again?

[Dill]

(03-16-2021, 12:47 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote:   The minute you start ignoring unpalatable evidence is the moment you stop trying to seek true answers, 

Well said. 

This is a principle that I think should apply to all issues discussed in this forum.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(03-16-2021, 11:13 AM)Dill Wrote: Well said. 

This is a principle that I think should apply to all issues discussed in this forum.

Indeed.  We'll see if this desire gets applied evenly.

[Dill]

(03-16-2021, 09:50 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I don't think "The model American" image makes people think there isn't violence against Asians.  If anything it would make me think there would be   violence.

That whole part about the reward was just weird.

Because some are jealous of their academic/financial success?  Just wondering. 

Being a model American doesn't seem to draw violence to white Americans. 

If "success" is a criterion, that has drawn violence to black Americans. 

But not so much recently.

[*michaelsean*]

(03-16-2021, 12:02 PM)Dill Wrote: Because some are jealous of their academic/financial success?  Just wondering. 

Being a model American doesn't seem to draw violence to white Americans. 

If "success" is a criterion, that has drawn violence to black Americans. 

But not so much recently.

I think as a highly successful minority yes. By lower middle class people in the majority and other minorities. Very few act on these jealousies, but enough would to notice. Just a theory.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(03-16-2021, 12:22 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I think as a highly successful minority yes. By lower middle class people in the majority and other minorities. Very few act on these jealousies, but enough would to notice. Just a theory.

Speaking in generalities, there is a lot of resentment toward Asians in lower income areas.  They are perceived as interlopers, opening businesses that should be run by the locals.  Of course, this ignores the fact that they own these businesses because they work their ass off, working 16+ hours a day and often sleeping in the shop.  But that kind of hatred and resentment doesn't rely on logic or common sense.  Anecdotally, I see this all the damned time.  It's also directed at others, such as Indians or Middle Easterners.  I do wonder if the OP includes them as Asians, which they technically are, but in the US at least the term is generally used to describe what would have in the past be referred to as "Orientals".