The right's obsession with AOC

[*bfine32*]

(02-27-2019, 09:34 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: It's not really nuanced.

I pointed out that that Ivanka, who was born in wealth and has been handed jobs by her father, was wrong about people not supporting minimum wages, much less a $15 minimum wage, and that challenging someone who has had a working class job on the matter wouldn't go over well. 

It's just in your nature to then ask a random question to turn the discussion into something of your choosing rather than address the main point. And, yes, I know that AOC said it's a right, so you're going to get hung up on it being the most relevant thing to take away from that post, but I've made the decision to not entertain your repetitive horseshit. 

I'm sure your response will be quite snarky and lacking substance, so you can save yourself the effort and not even reply to this post. 

Cool, let's make a pact. In the future we'll overlook the actual words and point to the main point.

I just disputed the main point of AOC "setting Ivanka straight" by saying things such as A living wage is a right.

My apologies if you didn't like the way I presented it. 

[Belsnickel]

(02-27-2019, 10:50 AM)GMDino Wrote: We have a big bunch of buildings built in the early 70's for a volkswagen plant.

Not only did the area give tax breaks and other incentives but the business coming to the area meant the construction of a new highway.

When the tax breaks ended so did the plant.

My father worked in that plant for a short time. He talks about it being the worst job he ever had and he abandoned it as soon as he could. Not really relevant, but this just made me think about that.

[GMDino]

(02-27-2019, 12:10 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: My father worked in that plant for a short time. He talks about it being the worst job he ever had and he abandoned it as soon as he could. Not really relevant, but this just made me think about that.

My aunt worked there right up until she had to get government cheese to survive...

Oddly it closed around the same time my dad's factory closed and move to Indiana so it wasn't even an option for him.

The early 80's were a bad time to be a worker but a great time to be an owner.

[BmorePat87]

(02-27-2019, 09:34 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote:  

I'm sure your response will be quite snarky and lacking substance, so you can save yourself the effort and not even reply to this post. 

(02-27-2019, 11:55 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Cool, let's make a pact. In the future we'll overlook the actual words and point to the main point.

I just disputed the main point of AOC "setting Ivanka straight" by saying things such as A living wage is a right.

My apologies if you didn't like the way I presented it. 

Nailed it. 

[Belsnickel]

(02-27-2019, 12:17 PM)GMDino Wrote: My aunt worked there right up until she had to get government cheese to survive...

Oddly it closed around the same time my dad's factory closed and move to Indiana so it wasn't even an option for him.

The early 80's were a bad time to be a worker but a great time to be an owner.

There's a reason we moved to Virginia...

[*bfine32*]

(02-27-2019, 12:19 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Nailed it. 

Consider disagreeing with you as snark and lacking substance all you want and then pat yourself on the back for "nailing" it. 

But my point is you cannot point to how AOC set anyone straight when she says such idiotic things as A living wage is a right; perhaps she's the one that needs to be set straight. Isn't supplying a direct quote from her "providing substance"? 

No one is going to dispute that AOC has more experience being poor than Ivanka, but that alone does not give her view more merit. 

As I said sorry my post didn't live up to your standards. 

[GMDino]

(02-27-2019, 12:40 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: There's a reason we moved to Virginia...

Indeed!  LOL!

Dad didn't want to move to Indiana with the job.  I was 12, my sister was 8.  We had a stay at home mom.  All our immediate family was within 10 miles of home.

He took odd jobs, found a full time with our church...and got fired with 18 months of earning a pension because we got a new priest who decided to "save money".  Dad offered to work for half or free just to get the time in and was rejected.  That ended up being a blessing in disguise because his next part time job turned into a full time job he had from the late 80's until just this past January when he retired at 74 years old.

Hard work will get you places.  Greedy businesses make it hard though.

Edit: Long before he lost that first job I strongly remember going shopping with him and he ran into a coworker who asked if I was going to work there too someday. Dad said "No way. He's a paper pusher." and he was right! LOL! It took awhile to get there, but it's pretty much what I do now. I worked hard at various jobs from flipping burgers to moving furniture to lots of other stuff in between and around though.

[*michaelsean*]

(02-27-2019, 12:46 PM)GMDino Wrote: Indeed!  LOL!

Dad didn't want to move to Indiana with the job.  I was 12, my sister was 8.  We had a stay at home mom.  All our immediate family was within 10 miles of home.

He took odd jobs, found a full time with our church...and got fired with 18 months of earning a pension because we got a new priest who decided to "save money".  Dad offered to work for half or free just to get the time in and was rejected.  That ended up being a blessing in disguise because his next part time job turned into a full time job he had from the late 80's until just this past January when he retired at 74 years old.

Hard work will get you places.  Greedy businesses make it hard though.

Damn you could have been the original Colts fan on this board.  I don't think your dad would have gotten too mad because you could have still respected the Steelers.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-27-2019, 10:47 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: There is a criticism in doing things like that, though. When states use incentives like that specific to a company it is effectively choosing winners and losers in the market.

I agree to an extent.  Larger breaks are always going to go to larger employers by the mere fact that they will employ more workers.

Quote:The more equitable way to lure businesses to the state is to make overall policies more business friendly. We have relied on these sorts of incentives in Virginia for a long time, as well, and analyses done of our economic health have pointed to them as weaknesses that we need to shore up before they come back around to bite us in the ass. And we are more pro-business than states like New York or California, so I can only imagine what they deal with.

On this we agree completely.  I'm also pleased to hear that VA actually analyzes the effects of their laws and policies in this regard.  In regards to CA, I have friends that own their own business (mainly contracting and construction) and they have a never ending litany of complaints about CA laws and the endless red tape and minutiae they have to deal with.  I know this is hardly the final word but both CA and NY are routinely listed as the worst states to do business in;

https://chiefexecutive.net/best-worst-states-business-2018/

That being the case they're going to have to do something to incentivize a large company to open up shop in their state.  If I'm a business owner I'm going to need a financial incentive large enough to make dealing with all the bureaucratic BS worth it.  I watched a fantastic video on this type of thing regarding my hometown, San Francisco.  As I'm at work I'm going to have to use my phone to post it so I'll do so in a moment.

[GMDino]

(02-27-2019, 12:49 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Damn you could have been the original Colts fan on this board.  I don't think your dad would have gotten too mad because you could have still respected the Steelers.

Ha!

I'd have been a Steelers fan in Indiana!

Although I admit that I've often wondered how our lives would have been different obviously.  And I guaranteeantee we'd have gone to Colts games when they moved!

[Belsnickel]

(02-27-2019, 12:46 PM)GMDino Wrote: Indeed!  LOL!

Dad didn't want to move to Indiana with the job.  I was 12, my sister was 8.  We had a stay at home mom.  All our immediate family was within 10 miles of home.

He took odd jobs, found a full time with our church...and got fired with 18 months of earning a pension because we got a new priest who decided to "save money".  Dad offered to work for half or free just to get the time in and was rejected.  That ended up being a blessing in disguise because his next part time job turned into a full time job he had from the late 80's until just this past January when he retired at 74 years old.

Hard work will get you places.  Greedy businesses make it hard though.

Edit: Long before he lost that first job I strongly remember going shopping with him and he ran into a coworker who asked if I was going to work there too someday.  Dad said "No way.  He's a paper pusher." and he was right!  LOL!  It took awhile to get there, but it's pretty much what I do now.  I worked hard at various jobs from flipping burgers to moving furniture to lots of other stuff in between and around though.

I have forgotten the order of the jobs my dad worked after Vietnam. Got out in '69, married my mother in '70, had my sister in '75, and had me in '85. I know they had a trailer near my mother's family farm at first, then moved to Standard Shaft and had two different houses in the patch during that time. My dad worked at Volkswagen, Lennox, Idlewild, and doing electrical work in various places in the Laurel Highlands area after going to GIT with his GI Bill. The jobs were drying up in the '80s, though, and my mother's parents had purchased a motel down here, but were getting to the point they couldn't run it. The timing was right, so they came here in '86.

After seeing that area, today, and what my family has to go through that remained there, I'm thankful they made that decision.

(02-27-2019, 12:49 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Damn you could have been the original Colts fan on this board.  I don't think your dad would have gotten too mad because you could have still respected the Steelers.

You know, since my entire cognitive life has been here in Virginia you'd think I would've been a Redskins fan, but some things are just too disgusting to think about.

I say that, but I've actually been thinking about switching allegiances to Washington teams. If only I cared much about pro sports anymore.

[GMDino]

(02-27-2019, 12:58 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I have forgotten the order of the jobs my dad worked after Vietnam. Got out in '69, married my mother in '70, had my sister in '75, and had me in '85. I know they had a trailer near my mother's family farm at first, then moved to Standard Shaft and had two different houses in the patch during that time. My dad worked at Volkswagen, Lennox, Idlewild, and doing electrical work in various places in the Laurel Highlands area after going to GIT with his GI Bill. The jobs were drying up in the '80s, though, and my mother's parents had purchased a motel down here, but were getting to the point they couldn't run it. The timing was right, so they came here in '86.

After seeing that area, today, and what my family has to go through that remained there, I'm thankful they made that decision.


You know, since my entire cognitive life has been here in Virginia you'd think I would've been a Redskins fan, but some things are just too disgusting to think about.

I say that, but I've actually been thinking about switching allegiances to Washington teams. If only I cared much about pro sports anymore.

Dad worked at Modulus.  When it closed (they were locked out) he went to get his electrical engineering degree on the GI Bill...and then St. Reagan stopped it.  He was about 10 credits shy and couldn't afford to finish.  

I still love this area.  And I, and my family, have been fortunate with work so I have no intentions of leaving.  But I fully understand why people did and do.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

Here’s the video

https://youtu.be/ExgxwKnH8y4

I know Bel will love this, but it’s an interesting view for anyone imo.

[*PhilHos*]

I don't mean to derail the thread, but I was going through from the beginning and enjoying the back-and-forth then I got to this post and this particular sentence:

(02-19-2019, 11:28 AM)GMDino Wrote: This was one of the debates that came up with Pittsburgh making a bid.  More jobs are great.  Good paying jobs are great.  But if the cost of living jumps too, who wins?

Based on this, GMDino, I assume you are now against raising the minimum wage?

[*michaelsean*]

(02-27-2019, 01:07 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Here’s the video

https://youtu.be/ExgxwKnH8y4

I know Bel will love this, but it’s an interesting view for anyone imo.

Loved the shadow and specifically that they actually had someone referred to as a shadow consultant.  Then the guy talking about the shadow talking about children's health safety and lives.

I couldn't sit in a room with the lady in the red shirt for 30 seconds.  

[GMDino]

(02-27-2019, 01:24 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I don't mean to derail the thread, but I was going through from the beginning and enjoying the back-and-forth then I got to this post and this particular sentence:

Based on this, GMDino, I assume you are now against raising the minimum wage?

Nope.  I'm for it.  Does it have to be $15.00 everywhere?  I don't think so.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-27-2019, 01:26 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Loved the shadow and specifically that they actually had someone referred to as a shadow consultant.  Then the guy talking about the shadow talking about children's health safety and lives.

I couldn't sit in a room with the lady in the red shirt for 30 seconds.  

I've sat in meetings of the L.A. County Board of Supervisors and I can tell you from personal experience, and that of friends who've dealt with similar governmental bodies, that this video is 100% par for the course in CA.  It's all about pandering to the loudest voices, which usually, IMO, deserve the least attention, or appearing to be as progressive as possible.  The lady in the red shirt is at least five million people in this state and I'm likely underselling it.

[Belsnickel]

(02-27-2019, 01:07 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Here’s the video

https://youtu.be/ExgxwKnH8y4

I know Bel will love this, but it’s an interesting view for anyone imo.

This is the sort of thing that frustrates me most about politics. There are ways to combat gentrification that don't cause this sort of issue. Gentrification is a real issue, but this isn't the way to deal with it. People need to look at the evidence and listen to the analysts, not interest groups.

[BmorePat87]

(02-27-2019, 12:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Consider disagreeing with you as snark and lacking substance all you want and then pat yourself on the back for "nailing" it. 

But my point is you cannot point to how AOC set anyone straight when she says such idiotic things as A living wage is a right; perhaps she's the one that needs to be set straight. Isn't supplying a direct quote from her "providing substance"? 

No one is going to dispute that AOC has more experience being poor than Ivanka, but that alone does not give her view more merit. 

As I said sorry my post didn't live up to your standards. 

No doubt her belief that it is a right negates her being correct and Ivanka being incorrect that Americans support it. I'm sorry that I wasn't putting more stock in this completely inane dismissal. I imagine it frustrates you when people don't play your games.

[*PhilHos*]

(02-27-2019, 01:29 PM)GMDino Wrote: Nope.  I'm for it.  Does it have to be $15.00 everywhere?  I don't think so.

But, if you simply raise minimum wage, then the cost of living is going to go up. Who is going to benefit from that?

That said, no matter your response, I won't respond as I don't want to derail the thread (feel free to respond, BTW, I'm not trying to tell you not to, just trying to respect the subject of the thread )