Trump Pressures Obama Over U.N. Resolution on Israeli Settlements

[Dill]

Looks like the US is headed for a pro settlement policy. No pretense of impartial broker anymore.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/22/world/middleeast/donald-trump-united-nations-israel-settlements.html?_r=0

JERUSALEM — President-elect Donald J. Trump thrust himself into one of the world’s most polarizing debates on Thursday by pressuring President Obama to veto a United Nations resolution critical of Israel, the newly elected leader’s most direct intervention in foreign policy during his transition to power.

Mr. Trump spoke out after Israeli officials contacted his team for help in blocking the draft resolution condemning settlement construction even as they lobbied its sponsor, Egypt. Within a couple of hours, Egypt withdrew the resolution, at least temporarily, and its president, Abdel Fattah el-Sisi, called Mr. Trump to discuss how “to establish true peace in the Middle East,” according to an aide to the president-elect.

Mr. Trump’s forceful intervention was a rare effort by a new president to shape international events even before taking office. While new presidents typically refrain from weighing in on current issues during the interregnum between their election and inauguration, Mr. Trump’s statement underscored that he does not plan to wait for the swearing in.

He has already upended decades of American policy by speaking directly with Taiwan’s leader, and he has spoken out regularly on events like this week’s terrorist attack in Germany. But his push to stop a United Nations resolution criticizing Israel was more directly aimed at decisions still being made by his predecessor in his final days in office.

The move also highlighted the stark shift on Middle East policy ahead when the new administration takes over in a month. Combined with his pledge to move the United States Embassy to Jerusalem and his selection of a pro-settlement ambassador to Israel, Mr. Trump’s involvement Thursday signaled an intent to play an active role in Middle East peace issues as a strong ally of Israel’s.

[Rotobeast]

Obama needs to "nut-up", here and help get this resolution through.


Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

[Dill]

(12-23-2016, 09:19 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: Obama needs to "nut-up", here and help get  this resolution through.

I agree, but it's too late. Egypt has already withdrawn it.

The US under Obama has agreed with the rest of the world that the settlements are a violation of international law, but nevertheless vetoed the condemnation resolution in 2011, on the ground that it would hamper, not help the peace process.

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=37572#.WF1MyWwixMs

Trump's choice of ambassador and his intervention in Obama's foreign policy while Obama is president apparently signal Trump will abandon any pretense to peace broker here.

If the US abandons all pretense to being an impartial peace broker, then US foreign policy in the Middle East will be henceforward viewed by regional powers as an extension of Israeli policy.  Probably the rest of the world will see it that way as well, since only the US is blocking the vote.

This raises the potential for instability and blowback--and unnecessarily, I think.

[fredtoast]

Here is a great way to protect the U.S. from terror attacks. Lets just slap the terrorist hornet nest in the name of supporting some other country beside our own.

[Rotobeast]

(12-23-2016, 01:20 PM)Dill Wrote: I agree, but it's too late. Egypt has already withdrawn it.

The US under Obama has agreed with the rest of the world that the settlements are a violation of international law, but nevertheless vetoed the condemnation resolution in 2011, on the ground that it would hamper, not help the peace process.

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=37572#.WF1MyWwixMs

Trump's choice of ambassador and his intervention in Obama's foreign policy while Obama is president apparently signal Trump will abandon any pretense to peace broker here.

If the US abandons all pretense to being an impartial peace broker, then US foreign policy in the Middle East will be henceforward viewed by regional powers as an extension of Israeli policy.  Probably the rest of the world will see it that way as well, since only the US is blocking the vote.

This raises the potential for instability and blowback--and unnecessarily, I think.

I totally agree.

Many have no idea of the Palestinian strife.
For the U.S. to have the image of supporting a boot on their neck will continue to perpetuate contempt.

[Dill]

(12-23-2016, 01:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Here is a great way to protect the U.S. from terror attacks.  Lets just slap the terrorist hornet nest in the name of supporting some other country beside our own.

Lol, "leadership"

[Belsnickel]

No follow-up? For those that may not have seen, the US abstained and the resolution passed 14-0. Now, Israel's pissed, the GOP is pissed, quite a few Democrats are pissed, it's a very interesting thing going on. There have been vows from the Senate to block funding to the UN until the resolution is reversed. Huckabee is in a "seething rage" over the administration's abstention. My Twitter feed has been filled with lots of stuff about this.

This creates an interesting situation for the incoming administration in a number ways as they will work to navigate the diplomatic obstacle course to reach what their desired result will be. The question is, though, what will be the desired result? The Israeli settlements issue is a complicated one for international affairs and there are pitfalls in any policy avenue.

[fredtoast]

It is insane how much weight the country of Israel carries in international relations. It is a rocky little piece of ground with no oil under it, yet it is one of the lynchpins for the entire world's middle east policy.

The United States gives Isreal over $10 million in aid EVERY SINGLE DAY, and our support of them brings tons of hatred and violence down on us. That little country is like a huge anchor pulling us down.

[Benton]

(12-25-2016, 12:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is insane how much weight the country of Israel carries in international relations.  It is a rocky little piece of ground with no oil under it, yet it is one of the lynchpins for the entire world's middle east policy.

The United States gives Isreal over $10 million in aid EVERY SINGLE DAY, and our support of them brings tons of hatred and violence down on us.  That little country is like a huge anchor pulling us down.

a few billion bucks a year to protect to land historically significant to a religion with a chief belief of giving up personal possessions is mindbogglingly dumb.

oh well, back to celebrating the birth of that religion's central figure by singing on my karaoke machine that I crippled an old lady to get during black Friday. 

[Benton]

something that could be an interesting pickle for trump.

a couple years ago Israel struck oil in the Golan heights. That area is claimed by Israel but regarded by the rest of the world as part of Syria. Given that Assad has been busy gassing his own folks, ER, rebels, he hasn't been too preoccupied with the oil reserves. If that conflict winds down... Which is likely if the rebels are going to suddenly find themselves fighting Assad, Russia and Isis.... Then presumably Assad is going to have to start paying for rebuilding. Wars are expensive. Golan heights and the oil there would go a long way to paying for those mass graves.

so if the conflict winds down during the next year or two and Russia /Syria turns its sights on Golan heights... Where does trump fall? He's going to run into the same problem as most of the rino's before him of trying to placate religious zealots and big money.

and now, I've got to go sing Fight Song in a duet with an 8-year old.

[fredtoast]

These settlements are not even 100% supported within Israel.

All around the world there are Jews that oppose the Zionist movement.

The UNited States need to stepo back from our hard core support of the expansion extremists in Israel.

[GMDino]

I've always had a (personal) problem with the situation of us giving them billions of dollars.  I never fully understood our allegiance/obsession with Israel.  They seem like the toady who goes out and picks fights and then has their big brother standing behind them so they can act tough.

Israel is more than capable of defending themselves...but they'd have to easy their tough stance and hard line talk to do so.

All that said I don't think Obama/the US makes this decision if Clinton wins...it would make her relationship with Netanyahu even more difficult.  And I don't say they did it to make Trump's time harder.  I think they did it because it was the right thing but politics made the move easier for them.

[Benton]

(12-26-2016, 01:03 PM)GMDino Wrote: I've always had a (personal) problem with the situation of us giving them billions of dollars.  I never fully understood our allegiance/obsession with Israel.  They seem like the toady who goes out and picks fights and then has their big brother standing behind them so they can act tough.

Israel is more than capable of defending themselves...but they'd have to easy their tough stance and hard line talk to do so.

All that said I don't think Obama/the US makes this decision if Clinton wins...it would make her relationship with Netanyahu even more difficult.  And I don't say they did it to make Trump's time harder.  I think they did it because it was the right thing but politics made the move easier for them.

It's a mix. Our role at the end of WW II had us taking up for them, but that morphed into them becoming a base of operations in the Middle East. We could work out of Israel and gain information on what the Soviets and their allies in the area were doing. Likewise, we could use Israel against them. It worked in our favor. We pumped money in and we got "free" information... like a life-size MIG to play with. That information  was invaluable through the 50-60s.

But somewhere around the late 70s, the Christian conservative movement started taking some odd turns. I don't know if it was churches manipulating politicians or vice versa, but the belief started gaining momentum that  if Israel fell, it would mean the end of the world. Part of that was some shrewd planning by the Israeli intelligence/government officials. They sunk a hefty bit into their tourism department in the 80s, bringing in evangelicals from all over... especially the U.S. The idea was to get American pastors and spiritual leaders supporting the need for a strong Israel, whether it was because of the supposed role Jews play in the end times, or just because of the desire to protect "Christian" holy sites. It was pretty darn smart. Manipulate practitioners of a religion calling for peace to influence lawmakers into fighting on their behalf.

[*bfine32*]

Trump just needs to shut up and observe until he is sworn in.

[GMDino]

(12-26-2016, 10:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Trump just needs to shut up and observe until he is sworn in.

I don't think he can.  I mean he is personally unable to.  He must respond to everything because he is always right and the only person who can solve all our problems.  Or so I've heard. 

[Mike M (the other one)]

(12-25-2016, 12:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is insane how much weight the country of Israel carries in international relations.  It is a rocky little piece of ground with no oil under it, yet it is one of the lynchpins for the entire world's middle east policy.

The United States gives Isreal over $10 million in aid EVERY SINGLE DAY, and our support of them brings tons of hatred and violence down on us.  That little country is like a huge anchor pulling us down.

I'm guessing you have no idea why we pay them so much?
If so, then please explain it for us all to see so we can share your POV.

[fredtoast]

(12-27-2016, 02:45 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I'm guessing you have no idea why we pay them so much?

You are right.  I don't.  

Like Benton said we used to get intel from them, but that has not happened in years.

So please explain it to me.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(12-27-2016, 02:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You are right.  I don't.  

Like Benton said we used to get intel from them, but that has not happened in years.

So please explain it to me.

Well one would think if you are going to ***** about sending them money, then you should know why we are sending them money. Instead of "parroting the left agenda".

We still get intel, but more importantly, we get advanced technologies from them and pay to keep those technologies from falling into the hands of Russia and China.

[fredtoast]

(12-27-2016, 03:03 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: We still get intel, but more importantly, we get advanced technologies from them and pay to keep those technologies from falling into the hands of Russia and China.

Like what?

[Mike M (the other one)]

(12-27-2016, 03:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Like what?

Oh I don't know, the Country is ranked 5th in innovative Technologies by Bloomberg.

Maybe it's the:
Missile Defense System they have created? Iron Dome ring any bells?
Maybe their "Spike" family of missiles?
Their usage of ISR (Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance)?
Their Avionics technology?

Now Israel has suspended ties with all 10 UN Nations that voted in favor of the UN resolution.