We need to learn Christian forgiveness and look past Trump's past actions!

[THE Bigzoman]

(03-28-2018, 01:36 PM)GMDino Wrote: Weird...I thought this Christian Nation was about forgiveness.  I guess I was wrong about the number of Christians in this country who believed we should take care of each other and forgive those who have sinned.

Apparently it means kick them out of the country.

I mean unless they had multiple affairs and are habitual liars.  Then we have to pray they will change.

My bad, again.

You're trying to compare Evangelicals' forgiveness towards Trump as a political leader to their endorsement of strict immigration policies?

Tons and tons (and I mean tons) of the world's greatest leaders have skeletons in their closets. Tons more were philanderers. Expecting them to believe that morality diminishes one's effectiveness as a leader is pretty dumb.

[BmorePat87]

(04-02-2018, 07:01 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Simply pointing out that not everyone who serves in the US Military is interested in becoming a US Citizen, In this case I don't find it extremely stupid (asinine) to suggest becoming a citizen was not a priority for this guy, until he realized that he was facing deportation. i would most likely find it asinine if anyone believes this guy didn't know he wasn't a citizen.

But apologies if I misinterpreted your question. 

Glad we cleared that up. Totally logical to make baseless assumptions about people we don't know, totally illogical to call people out for doing that. 

Quality contribution, bud. I'll be sure to bookmark this one for the next time you cry about a thread.

[GMDino]

(04-02-2018, 09:59 PM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: You're trying to compare Evangelicals' forgiveness towards Trump as a political leader to their endorsement of strict immigration policies?

Tons and tons (and I mean tons) of the world's greatest leaders have skeletons in their closets. Tons more were philanderers. Expecting them to believe that morality diminishes one's effectiveness as a leader is pretty dumb.

More or less...because they thought Obama was "out to get them" and not a Christian but LOVE how holy Trump is.

They are not religious...they are opportunistic and trying to push a political agenda.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/evangelical-leader-tired-of-being-kicked-around-by-obama-gives-trump-mulligan-for-alleged-dalliance-with-porn-star-2018-01-23

Quote:Tony Perkins, as a prominent evangelical figure and president of the Family Research Council, what’s your take on Donald Trump’s alleged Stormy Daniels affair? And, in your view, does any of his lewd behavior make him unfit for the White House?

Quote:“We kind of gave him — ‘All right, you get a mulligan. You get a do-over here.’ ”

In other words, while Trump’s more controversial moments may fly in the face of what it means to be a good Christian, Perkins is able to look past all that as long as the president keeps delivering on policy.
Clearly, he’s still miffed about his treatment by the prior administration.
Evangelical Christians “were tired of being kicked around by Barack Obama and his leftists,” Perkins said in a Politico podcast interview. “And I think they are finally glad that there’s somebody on the playground that is willing to punch the bully.”
What about turning the other cheek?


“You know, you only have two cheeks,” he said. “Look, Christianity is not all about being a welcome mat which people can just stomp their feet on.”

Perkins, a strong supporter of Sen. Ted Cruz during the Texan’s campaign for the presidency, applauds the White House’s restrictive stance on abortion rights and its “religious freedom” executive orders.

“It’s a developing relationship,” he said. “But I’ll have to say this: From a policy standpoint, he has delivered more than any other president in my lifetime.”

His one grievance with the administration, he says, is that Secretary of State Rex Tillerson isn’t doing enough to stop abortions and liberal activism.

But as long as Trump doesn’t disappoint politically, Perkins says evangelicals will keep supporting him. “Whenever the policy stops, and his administration reverts to just personality,” he told Politico, “that’s where I believe the president will be in trouble.”

Another noted evangelical, the Rev. Franklin Graham, went similarly on record in recent days, conceding that Trump is “not President Perfect” but “does have a concern to protect Christians whether it’s here at home or around the world.”

“We certainly don’t hold him up as the pastor of this nation,” Graham said in an MSNBC interview, “and he is not.”

[Dill]

(04-02-2018, 09:59 PM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: You're trying to compare Evangelicals' forgiveness towards Trump as a political leader to their endorsement of strict immigration policies?

Tons and tons (and I mean tons) of the world's greatest leaders have skeletons in their closets. Tons more were philanderers. Expecting them to believe that morality diminishes one's effectiveness as a leader is pretty dumb.

Bad morality certainly can diminish one's effectiveness as a leader.

Tons and tons of the world's leaders did not win office pandering to the evangelical vote. 

Evangelical leaders said the immoral Clinton was unfit for office precisely because of his immorality.
Evangelicals stood on principle, they said.
 
In Trump's case it is simply God choosing an imperfect vessel to do his work.

[THE Bigzoman]

(04-03-2018, 09:40 PM)Dill Wrote: Bad morality certainly can diminish one's effectiveness as a leader.

Tons and tons of the world's leaders did not win office pandering to the evangelical vote. 

Evangelical leaders said the immoral Clinton was unfit for office precisely because of his immorality.
Evangelicals stood on principle, they said.
 
In Trump's case it is simply God choosing an imperfect vessel to do his work.

It can, but that doesn't mean it does. And it hasn't for a ton of people. Again, the armies of examples just goes to show how dumb it is to beleive that.

[Dill]

(04-04-2018, 12:55 AM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: It can, but that doesn't mean it does. And it hasn't for a ton of people. Again, the armies of examples just goes to show how dumb it is to beleive that.

The issue is that evangelicals believe it does, or did when Clinton  was president.

Now they don't.  Overnight.

[*michaelsean*]

(04-04-2018, 09:29 AM)Dill Wrote: The issue is that evangelicals believe it does, or did when Clinton  was president.

Now they don't.  Overnight.

Who are "the evangelicals" that you are speaking of as a single entity?

[Dill]

(04-04-2018, 09:36 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Who are "the evangelicals" that you are speaking of as a single entity?

People who self-identify as evangelicals and support Trump. Referencing a demographic which overwhelmingly supports the Grabber-in-chief doesn't assume they are a single entity.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/13/why-evangelicals-love-trump-243769

Yet he has told advisers he sees evangelicals as among his most important constituencies, and he has enjoyed fervent support, as evidenced by another rapturous reception on Friday at the Values Voter Summit. A Reuters poll in September showed more than 60 percent of white evangelicals back Trump, far higher than his overall approval rating, which has often fallen below 40 percent.

“Trump has been focused like a laser beam on the evangelical vote since the day he entered the presidential race in June 2015, and that has never changed," said Ralph Reed, founder and chairman of the Faith and Freedom Coalition, who said Trump called religious leaders repeatedly during the campaign.

[*michaelsean*]

(04-04-2018, 10:40 AM)Dill Wrote: People who self-identify as evangelicals and support Trump. Referencing a demographic which overwhelmingly supports the Grabber-in-chief doesn't assume they are a single entity.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/13/why-evangelicals-love-trump-243769

Yet he has told advisers he sees evangelicals as among his most important constituencies, and he has enjoyed fervent support, as evidenced by another rapturous reception on Friday at the Values Voter Summit. A Reuters poll in September showed more than 60 percent of white evangelicals back Trump, far higher than his overall approval rating, which has often fallen below 40 percent.

“Trump has been focused like a laser beam on the evangelical vote since the day he entered the presidential race in June 2015, and that has never changed," said Ralph Reed, founder and chairman of the Faith and Freedom Coalition, who said Trump called religious leaders repeatedly during the campaign.

But you are including a lot of people, including black Democrats, when you use the term "evangelical".  For example,  3/4 of blacks in Alabama consider themselves evangelical.  

[Dill]

(04-04-2018, 10:47 AM)michaelsean Wrote: But you are including a lot of people, including black Democrats, when you use the term "evangelical".  For example,  3/4 of blacks in Alabama consider themselves evangelical.  

Perhaps that is why the evangelical Trump buy in is not 100%. It slides between 70 and 80%. Some have said they stand on principle and do not back Trump because of his behavior--just not in substantial numbers.

Many black evangelicals in Alabama might also vote for Trump, though, or in higher numbers than their northern/Western group members.

You have introduced a material consideration here. Perhaps in the future I should say "a super majority of White Evangelicals back Trump no matter what" until I have sorted out the demographics.