Tua out for Thursday?

[Sled21]

(09-30-2022, 08:51 AM)Nepa Wrote: Sounds like the NFLPA is really ticked off about how Tua was handled after the Sunday incident:

"NFL Players Association executive director DeMaurice Smith texted to Andrew Whitworth (a former NFLPA player rep) and Richard Sherman (a member of the NFLPA executive committee) the following message: “We insisted on these rules to avoid exactly this scenario. We will pursue every legal option, including making referrals against the doctors to licensing agencies and the team that is obligated to keep our players safe.”

https://sports.yahoo.com/demaurice-smith-vows-pursue-every-035615128.html

Mike Florio went on to say:

"Here’s the issue, as I explained it both on Football Night in America and throughout the week, on PFT Live and in this outlet. If a player shows 'gross motor instability,' he may continue only if the team physician and the Unaffiliated Neurotrauma Consultant conclude that the instability was not neurologically caused.

I posed to the league — twice — on Sunday a very simple question. How did the team physician and the UNC conclude that the gross motor instability exhibited by Tua was not neurological? Did they take Tua’s word for it that it was a back injury? Did they carefully study the know-it-when-you-see-it video that the wobbling and wooziness was not the result of a head injury?"

Why is it not being mentioned that neck and back injuries are also neurological? Personally, I think he had a concussion last week, but even if it was his neck/back, he was messed up.

[*pally*]

(09-30-2022, 08:55 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Why is it not being mentioned that neck and back injuries are also neurological? Personally, I think he had a concussion last week, but even if it was his neck/back, he was messed up.

Neck and back MUSCLE injuries are not neurological.

[Sled21]

(09-30-2022, 09:04 AM)pally Wrote: Neck and back MUSCLE injuries are not neurological.

Neck and back Spinal injuries are.....

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4774225/

Quote:What is spinal concussion? Spinal cord concussion is a variant of mild spinal cord injury, clinically designated as transient paraplegia or neurapraxia, and characterized by variable degrees of sensory impairment and motor weakness that typically resolve within 24–72 hours without permanent deficits (Del Bigio and Johnson, 1989; Zwimpfer and Bernstein, 1990; Torg et al., 1997). Accordingly, a grading system was developed based on the duration of symptoms, ranging from Grade I (< 15 minutes) to Grade III (> 24 hours) (Zwimpfer and Bernstein, 1990; Torg et al., 1997). Spinal cord concussion is predominantly a sport-related injury occurring in a wide variety of contact sports in adult and pediatric athletes including wrestling, hockey, gymnastics, and diving, but most commonly in American football,

Looks to me like his symptoms last week were classic Grade 1 

[Destro]

(09-30-2022, 08:55 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Why is it not being mentioned that neck and back injuries are also neurological? Personally, I think he had a concussion last week, but even if it was his neck/back, he was messed up.

Working on the assumption that everything is 100% honest, truthful and completely done expertly, we are taking his back, neck and head in four days time. Man, that is rough.

Feel bad for the young man. All appears to be a good kid and family ( his brother plays here in Maryland ). I won’t say anything about people “deserving” injuries, but [ deleting the rest ]

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-30-2022, 09:08 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Neck and back Spinal injuries are.....

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4774225/

Looks to me like his symptoms last week were classic Grade 1 

The grading systems have pretty much been abandoned.

[Sled21]

(09-30-2022, 09:29 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: The grading systems have pretty much been abandoned.

Point remains....

[Garrus]

Oh wow Fred got banned, what happened?

[KillerGoose]

(09-30-2022, 11:35 AM)Garrus Wrote: Oh wow Fred got banned, what happened?

It happens every so often. It isn't a permaban, he'll be back in a week or so. 

[George Cantstandya]

(09-30-2022, 11:45 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: It happens every so often. It isn't a permaban, he'll be back in a week or so. 

Yeah he's the Josh Gordon of the forum.   Seems at least once or twice a year I see the "banned" tag by his name.  Then he is back again.  That said I saw the post I think was the cause of it and it was over the line in my opinion.

[Nepa]

Nowinski, the neuroscientist mentioned in some posts above before the Bengals/Dolphins game and said it was a concussion and he shouldn't play, didn't mince words about the Tua injury on Thursday night:

"Pray for Tua. Fire the medical staffs and coaches. I predicted this and I hate that I am right. Two concussions in 5 days can kill someone. This can end careers. How are we so stupid in 2022," he wrote.

"I take no pleasure in being right. Pray for Tua. We saw this coming. Get angry. Get involved with @ConcussionLF to make sure the @NFL can't do this again."

He later added: "You guys should go to jail for letting him play 5 days after an obvious #concussion you covered up. If he dies from second-impact syndrome, I'm pushing for murder charges."

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/neuroscientist-slams-dolphins-tua-tagovailoa-injury-disaster?dicbo=v2-fbae339ed73e477fc9f406290f136a03

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-29-2022, 08:32 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I wouldn't even need the doctor or independent consultant to tell me that Tua had a concussion there.

Anyone with a quarter of a brain would realize that Tua was feeling the effects of the hit and probably wasn't even sure where he was.

I'm surprised they're letting him play on this short week but one hit and slam to the ground and I think he's done. 

You called it Brad.

[*michaelsean*]

(09-30-2022, 12:56 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yeah, that was getting a little annoying.

They act like this guy rolled in town and took a 4-13 team to a 3-0 start.  Didn't they win like 8 of their last 9 or something last year?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-30-2022, 01:23 PM)michaelsean Wrote: They act like this guy rolled in town and took a 4-13 team to a 3-0 start.  Didn't they win like 8 of their last 9 or something last year?

I believe they had won their last 9, as I heard it was 12 straight coming into last night’s game. Flores had a good thing brewing down there, and that was without having Tyreek Hill.

Let’s pump the brakes on anointing McDaniel the next McVay.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-30-2022, 05:20 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: I still feel like he didn't even take that bad of a hit and it makes me wonder even more if he was already suffering concussion symptoms leading to him getting knocked the hell out so easily. I mean it was a good smack on the ground but I've seen guys get up from significantly worse.

Sad thing is Teddy Bridgewater is a very qualified and experienced backup. To be honest I bet they are more dangerous on the deep ball with him. Short week, hurricane BS coming through. Let your veteran backup play the game and let Tua get some rest. Even if it was back and ankle injuries he still could have and probably should have needed the rest.

Won't lie though if there was something being hidden it feels like Tua was in on it and wanting to play through it himself. He's going to have to learn to be extremely careful if/when he returns as you do not need to be taking unnecessary chances with brain injuries. I feel like we just watched his career drastically become shortened after tonight.

(09-30-2022, 07:30 AM)dr tarzan Wrote: I concur.   As most folks who follow contact sports know, the concussions are a cumulative injury.   Each successive one requires less of an impact, recalling Moose Johnston.... his last one was a routine tackle where he didn't even  have a head impact. 
When they are so severe that it involves the kind of posturing Tua did after this last one, it is going to have lasting effect.   Like you said, we see many such impacts that guys pop up and run to the huddle, his brain is going to be mush after the next one.    I would not be surprised to see season ending IR for him.

Last weeks "back and ankle" injury was total bullshit.    It doesn't take a trained eye to see when someone is staggering from a neurologic condition versus an orthopedic one.  OK,  maybe sometimes it does.  But Mine is, anyway, and that was no orthopedic stagger.    Tua and the Dolphins medical and coaching staff ignored their own instincts and placed this too dedicated player's career and possibly, life, at risk.  If some heads don't roll on this one, someone just isn't looking for malfeasance or malpractice hard enough.

What you guys said. It was clear that was a bad concussion and it was just irresponsible and stupid of everyone involved
for Tua to play in this game and he is maybe the biggest culprit as he lied himself about it. Too bad it might of cost him his
career as these things a cumulative, it just gets worse. Tua needed to rest for his own well being and even for the team.

I think if they started Teddy they would of had a better chance against us as well.

(09-30-2022, 07:33 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Same. We need a new “What they got banned for” forum. Holic  could even charge $1.00 a view.

(09-30-2022, 08:02 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Dang it, missed it again. Someone PM me what happened....

In the white out thread Fred showed a KKK image...

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-30-2022, 05:20 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: I still feel like he didn't even take that bad of a hit and it makes me wonder even more if he was already suffering concussion symptoms leading to him getting knocked the hell out so easily. I mean it was a good smack on the ground but I've seen guys get up from significantly worse.

Sad thing is Teddy Bridgewater is a very qualified and experienced backup. To be honest I bet they are more dangerous on the deep ball with him. Short week, hurricane BS coming through. Let your veteran backup play the game and let Tua get some rest. Even if it was back and ankle injuries he still could have and probably should have needed the rest.

Won't lie though if there was something being hidden it feels like Tua was in on it and wanting to play through it himself. He's going to have to learn to be extremely careful if/when he returns as you do not need to be taking unnecessary chances with brain injuries. I feel like we just watched his career drastically become shortened after tonight.

Watch the hit from Sunday. He was pushed backwards. Not very forcefully. Pay attention to his head. When his back hit the turf it cause his head to snap backwards. That snapping motion is like the tip of a whip cracking from breaking the sound barrier. His neck acts as a lever that rapidly increases the acceleration of his head which increases the force exponentially. He had the same mechanism of injury last night, but his head was snapped sideways instead of backward while his body was being rotated (imagine how an ice skater speeds up during a spin combined with the mass of two players.) And you can’t judge the severity by the force of the hit because Player A’s concussion could be more severe due to less force than Player AB’s concussion. That’s one of the reasons why the grading systems aren’t used as much.

Having one concussion is a risk factor for a second concussion. Subsequent concussion may not require as much force to cause a concussion. Especially if the player should be in the return to play concussion protocol after a concussion four days earlier.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-30-2022, 08:41 AM)Nepa Wrote: If I were the NFLPA, or anyone investigating the response to Tua's symptoms on Sunday, then I'm going to ask the independent neurologist whether the person actually saw the footage of Tua stumbling around, shaking his head, losing his balance, or whether the neurologist just focused on Tua as he was presenting back in the locker room and Tua's self-report. 

Because the actual symptoms on the field needed to be part of the equation. As we have seen, several neurologists said the video of Tua's symptoms on the field were a clear sign of a concussion. The neurologist and the team's coaches need to protect the players from themselves. This was a very bad look for the NFL and the Miami coaches, to put a player back on the field as they did, because his life and health was at risk. As the one who discovered CTE said in one interview after watching Tua on Sunday, a billion dollars is not worth risking his life.

I’ve often suspected they don’t watch the footage. If the signs resolve by the time the locker room evaluation occurs and the player denies symptoms, that gives them the wiggle room to truthfully report the physical exam was normal. Even though their gait and balance were grossly abnormal on the field immediately afterwards.

[*bengalfan74*]

(09-30-2022, 01:59 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I’ve often suspected they don’t watch the footage. If the signs resolve by the time the locker room evaluation occurs and the player denies symptoms, that gives them the wiggle room to truthfully report the physical exam was normal. Even though their gait and balance were grossly abnormal on the field immediately afterwards.

To me it just seems like common sense that the team Dr. would be more involved (watching the game) and at a minimum reviewing the footage of an injury play.

Again to me and I'm no medical person. But after you see that whiplash effect on his head (last sunday) then seeing him get up and stagger. He was concussed and there's zero doubt.

It seems like a gross dereliction of duty to just ask Tua "what year is it" and shine a light in his eyes and say yup he's okay.

[BengalYankee]

(09-30-2022, 01:27 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I believe they had won their last 9, as I heard it was 12 straight coming into last night’s game. Flores had a good thing brewing down there, and that was without having Tyreek Hill.

Let’s pump the brakes on anointing McDaniel the next McVay.

Nope.

They won 8 out of 9 with them winning 7 in a row before losing to the Titans in week 17 and then winning the last game of the season to the Pats, finishing 9-8.

 

[Sled21]

(09-30-2022, 02:07 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: To me it just seems like common sense that the team Dr. would be more involved (watching the game) and at a minimum reviewing the footage of an injury play.

Again to me and I'm no medical person. But after you see that whiplash effect on his head (last sunday) then seeing him get up and stagger. He was concussed and there's zero doubt.

It seems like a gross dereliction of duty to just ask Tua "what year is it" and shine a light in his eyes and say yup he's okay.

And herin lies the problem. The NFL needs to have their own independent doctors at each game to do the examinations and the team doctors need not be a part of it. I don't think most coaches have sway over the team doctors, but the team owners do. And we all know the Dolphins owners are slimy as they come. 

[BFritz21]

(09-30-2022, 01:18 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: You called it Brad.

I know a thing or two about brain injuries lol (I’m completely joking because it was pretty obvious to everyone). You never like to see those injuries (at least I don’t) and even more so because I think it hurts football.

It was unfortunate but we still had to win the game. With our curse against backup quarterbacks, I’m glad we took care of business.

On to the Ravens.