Violence at Israeli-Gazan Border

[treee]

I've heard some people sneeringly call it an apartheid state, which is an interesting perspective.

[Belsnickel]

(05-15-2018, 07:18 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I used to think the two state solution was best.  It’s a naive fantasy.  If we want to break the cycle we need cut off all funds to the Palestinians.  Why we give them Money is beyond me.  

One state under Israeli control where Muslims do quite well btw.  They are 18% of the population.  

Thank God I am not going to Miami this week, there is always some Palestinian nonsense going on and holding up traffic.

Yeah, they do quite well being discriminated against by the state and the majority population for their religion, being treated as second-class citizens.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-15-2018, 12:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is easy to say "Let Israel wipe out the Palestinians", but that ignores that fact that Israel is surrounded by Arab countries that would make their existence miserable.

The United States gives Israel over 8 million dollars per day to prop them up. Seems like it would save us a lot of money to just let Russia and the Arab neighbors wipe out Israel.

What do you think of that plan Lucie? Pull the US money teat out of Israel's mouth and see how long they survive on their own.

Israel has asked for us to stop.

This is why the Saudi/Israeli and others, coalition is so important. This is the type of group which could have a positive effect on the ME. Lead to a less religious leadership. A. Lot more productive than trying to create a two State solution with terrorists and a scumbag like Abbas who enriches his family over basic needs of his people.

[Belsnickel]

(05-15-2018, 07:19 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: They have normal well reasoned leadership.

No, they really don't.

(05-15-2018, 07:20 PM)treee Wrote: I've heard some people sneeringly call it an apartheid state, which is an interesting perspective.

Well, the Gaza situation is actually more like a besieged city. They are trapped, can only get the food and other supplies the Israelis allow in, and this is in their own land. The border that these protesters were shot at isn't even an actual border with Israel, from my understanding.

[fredtoast]

(05-15-2018, 07:18 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I used to think the two state solution was best.  It’s a naive fantasy.  If we want to break the cycle we need cut off all funds to the Palestinians.  Why we give them Money is beyond me.  

Cut of funds to Israel also, right?

That $8 million every day might help us pay for the huge deficit caused by the recent tax cuts.

[treee]

(05-15-2018, 07:26 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: No, they really don't.


Well, the Gaza situation is actually more like a besieged city. They are trapped, can only get the food and other supplies the Israelis allow in, and this is in their own land. The border that these protesters were shot at isn't even an actual border with Israel, from my understanding.

So they were shot at by an occupying force on their own land.  Smh. 

That aside, I heard some of the Palestinianans had weapons. Have you seen any credible sources saying one way or the other?

[fredtoast]

(05-15-2018, 07:26 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: This is why the Saudi/Israeli and others, coalition is so important. This is the type of group which could have a positive effect on the ME.  Lead to a less religious leadership. 

the ONLY reason Saudi Arabia will even speak to Israel is because of the huge conflict they have with Iran over religion.  It will not lessen the theocratic nature of these ME players in any way.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-15-2018, 07:22 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Yeah, they do quite well being discriminated against by the state and the majority population for their religion, being treated as second-class citizens.

Are they hunted down and murdered? That’s how it goes in Muslim countries.

Found this. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/05/25/most-israeli-jews-do-not-see-a-lot-of-discrimination-in-their-society/

Looks like the Muslims have a victim mentality. Also they probably should be stopped more given the acts of Muslims towards Jews and Christians. I found this interesting.

Quote:The survey also asked non-Jews in Israel whether they have faced specific instances of discrimination due to their religious identity within the past year, including being prevented from traveling, being stopped and questioned by security forces, being physically attacked and questioned or suffering property damage. Most Muslims in Israel (63%) say they have not personally faced one of these types of discrimination in the past 12 months. But the other 37% say they have experienced at least one of these things recently.

At the same time, there are some positive interactions, too. About a quarter of Israeli Muslims (26%) say a Jewish person has expressed sympathy toward them because of their religious identity within the past year.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-15-2018, 07:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: the ONLY reason Saudi Arabia will even speak to Israel is because of the huge conflict they have with Iran over religion.  It will not lessen the theocratic nature of these ME players in any way.

Sometimes unlikely relationships are formed when enemies align. Terrorists will always exist plus if they can keep working together it’s a plus. Egypt will also play a big role. It’s exciting for the possibilities. Israel isn’t on its own for once in the ME.

[Belsnickel]

(05-15-2018, 07:29 PM)treee Wrote: So they were shot at by an occupying force on their own land.  Smh. 

That aside, I heard some of the Palestinianans had weapons. Have you seen any credible sources saying one way or the other?

I've heard that Israeli sources have said that around 24 of the 55 (or was it 58) killed were militants. It's too difficult to say for sure when you had over 14,000 protesters out there yesterday. I'm sure some had weapons. The reporters from NPR and the NYT that I heard talking about it described some groups hurling pipe bombs and some flying kite bombs which were intended to burn Israeli crops.

Most of the protesters were just trying to breach the perimeter, which is a multi-layer fence and ditch system. The ones they were talking to really didn't have any plans beyond that. All they know is this city, they have never been allowed outside of it. Their knowledge of Israel consists solely of the IDF forces that are planted on the other side of the fences. The symbolic gesture of breaching the perimeter was what they wanted but no one gets close to doing so. Even approaching the first layer gets you wounded. Getting up to it gets you a shot to the head. Weapon or not.

[Belsnickel]

(05-15-2018, 07:32 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Are they hunted down and murdered? That’s how it goes in Muslim countries.

Found this. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/05/25/most-israeli-jews-do-not-see-a-lot-of-discrimination-in-their-society/

Looks like the Muslims have a victim mentality. Also they probably should be stopped more given the acts of Muslims towards Jews and Christians. I found this interesting.

Yeah, one in three facing discrimination is a problem. I knew those statistics, it's what I was basing my comments on. And no one should be discriminated against based on religion just because of fear mongering falsehoods.

But I don't know why I bother saying this to you.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-15-2018, 07:26 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: No, they really don't.


Well, the Gaza situation is actually more like a besieged city. They are trapped, can only get the food and other supplies the Israelis allow in, and this is in their own land. The border that these protesters were shot at isn't even an actual border with Israel, from my understanding.

They can’t even feed themselves. If you can’t feed yourself then you have no need for lands. They are wasting everyone’s time with their shanty towns. All aid needs cut off so they just leave, or abbas’s family can use the money they are hoarding for themselves to feed their people.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-15-2018, 07:39 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Yeah, one in three facing discrimination is a problem. I knew those statistics, it's what I was basing my comments on. And no one should be discriminated against based on religion just because of fear mongering falsehoods.

But I don't know why I bother saying this to you.

Stopping people who have shown a strong pattern of violence is reasonable. I get stopped constantly in Belarus because I am an American. They ask me the same questions, etc. it’s just part of the deal. Guess what Muslims get more security screening here as well. Because it’s appropriate for the risk.

[Belsnickel]

(05-15-2018, 07:40 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: They can’t even feed themselves. If you can’t feed yourself then you have no need for lands. They are wasting everyone’s time with their shanty towns. All aid needs cut off so they just leave, or abbas’s family can use the money they are hoarding for themselves to feed their people.

They can't feed themselves because Israel won't let anything in! Do you understand what it means to be besieged? They have been like this for 11 years, unable to be free in land that is supposed to be their own. You really are just one of the most blindly ignorant people I've ever discussed this issue with.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-15-2018, 07:36 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I've heard that Israeli sources have said that around 24 of the 55 (or was it 58) killed were militants. It's too difficult to say for sure when you had over 14,000 protesters out there yesterday. I'm sure some had weapons. The reporters from NPR and the NYT that I heard talking about it described some groups hurling pipe bombs and some flying kite bombs which were intended to burn Israeli crops.

Most of the protesters were just trying to breach the perimeter, which is a multi-layer fence and ditch system. The ones they were talking to really didn't have any plans beyond that. All they know is this city, they have never been allowed outside of it. Their knowledge of Israel consists solely of the IDF forces that are planted on the other side of the fences. The symbolic gesture of breaching the perimeter was what they wanted but no one gets close to doing so. Even approaching the first layer gets you wounded. Getting up to it gets you a shot to the head. Weapon or not.

There were a lot of peaceful protestors out there. Probably 500 or so morons. Also it’s nice to see walls work.

[fredtoast]

(05-15-2018, 07:32 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Are they hunted down and murdered? That’s how it goes in Muslim countries.  

Found this.  http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/05/25/most-israeli-jews-do-not-see-a-lot-of-discrimination-in-their-society/

Looks like the Muslims have a victim mentality.  Also they probably should be stopped more given the acts of Muslims towards Jews and Christians.  I found this interesting.  

So why exactly did you post this survey?

.....Roughly four-in-five Israeli Arabs (79%) say there is a lot of discrimination against Muslims, according to a recent Pew Research Center survey of religion in Israel.

.....eight-in-ten Israeli Jews (79%) saying Jews deserve preferential treatment in Israel.

.....37% of non-Jews in Israel say they have experienced discrimination due to their religious identity within the past year, including being prevented from traveling, being stopped and questioned by security forces, being physically attacked and questioned or suffering property damage.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-15-2018, 07:42 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: They can't feed themselves because Israel won't let anything in! Do you understand what it means to be besieged? They have been like this for 11 years, unable to be free in land that is supposed to be their own. You really are just one of the most blindly ignorant people I've ever discussed this issue with.

I understand what it means. You expect me to have sympathy for these people who can’t even do basic things. When you are cut off you surrender and ask to leave. Instead they just dig deeper like a tick.

Sorry I just don’t care what happens to the Palestinians. I know it’s cold and probably heartless but they can fix their situation by just leaving. Israel will let them leave. Jordan and Egypt will take them back. Everyone can go on with their lives. The problem is they try and play this emotional game with people in hopes they garner sympathy. I’m just out of it for them. Sorry. I will review this position when Abbas abs Hana’s are gone.

[fredtoast]

(05-15-2018, 07:45 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote:   Also it’s nice to see walls work.

Walls only work if the people on the other side are oppressed and controlled like prisoners.

That won't happen on the US Mexican border.

[Belsnickel]

(05-15-2018, 07:45 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: There were a lot of peaceful protestors out there. Probably 500 or so morons. Also it’s nice to see walls work.

It works because of snipers kneecapping them when they get within ten feet and handing out headshots when they reach the fence itself.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-15-2018, 07:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So why exactly did you post this survey?

.....Roughly four-in-five Israeli Arabs (79%) say there is a lot of discrimination against Muslims, according to a recent Pew Research Center survey of religion in Israel.

.....eight-in-ten Israeli Jews (79%) saying Jews deserve preferential treatment in Israel.

.....37% of non-Jews in Israel say they have experienced discrimination due to their religious identity within the past year, including being prevented from traveling, being stopped and questioned by security forces, being physically attacked and questioned or suffering property damage.

Arabs are going to be discriminated against in today’s security climate. Especially in such of a security conscience state like Israel.