We need to learn Christian forgiveness and look past Trump's past actions!

[GMDino]

But if you were ever convicted of anything and turned your life around and even if you served this country we HAVE to go by the letter of the law and kick you out of the country because you didn't do some paperwork.

What a ****** up time we live in.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-army-veteran-miguel-perez-deported-to-mexico/

Quote:A United States Army veteran who served two tours in Afghanistan has been deported to Mexico, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement said. The deportation comes more than a week after Miguel Perez was denied U.S. citizenship because of a 2008 drug conviction.



ICE officers escorted Perez across the U.S.-Mexico border and turned him over to Mexican authorities on Friday, ICE said in a statement to CBS News.     


Earlier this month, the 39-year-old Perez petitioned immigration officials to be granted citizenship retroactive to when he joined the military in 2001.


Perez served two tours in Afghanistan. He says he mistakenly thought he became a U.S. citizen when he took an oath to protect the nation.


Perez was taken into custody by Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers after he served half of a 15-year prison sentence for a nonviolent drug charge. He was being held in a Wisconsin detention center before he was deported.


ICE spokesperson Nicole Alberico told CBS News on Monday that the agency is "very deliberate" in its review of deportation cases involving U.S. military veterans. 


"ICE exercises prosecutorial discretion, when appropriate, on a case-by-case basis for members of the armed forces who have served our country," she said in a statement. "ICE specifically identifies service in the U.S. military as a positive factor that is considered when deciding whether or not prosecutorial discretion should be exercised."


Earlier this month, Sen. Tammy Duckworth, D-IL, blasted the decision to deny Perez retroactive citizenship


"He earned the opportunity to remain in this country when he vowed to defend it in our military, but today's decision is yet another example of our nation failing him once more," she said in a statement. "We must do more to address the problems that allow the Trump Administration to deport Veterans from the same country they risked their lives to defend. It's shameful to turn our backs on those who have the courage to wear the uniform."


In January, CBS Chicago reported that Perez's family and friends stood in front of the downtown ICE offices in a bid to save him. Perez joined the demonstration by phone.


"The system has been killing me slowly, and now I'm facing death if I'm deported to Mexico, so I would rather die in the country I fought for than in a place that's not my home," Perez said.


In February, Perez presented his case before an immigration judge, CBS Chicago reported.

Testifying for more than two hours, Perez told the immigration judge that when he was brought back into Chicago for his hearing, he saw the skyline and thought, "This is a welcome mat."


He says he suffered PTSD when he got back and then turned to alcohol and drugs.


Perez acknowledged his guilt in delivering cocaine to an undercover officer, but pointed out he took responsibility for the crime by pleading guilty and serving 7 years in prison.



In prison, he got a degree and was a teacher's aide.

[*bfine32*]

Not sure what this has to do with Christian forgiveness

[GMDino]

(03-28-2018, 12:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Not sure what this has to do with Christian forgiveness

Huh...thought you were a Christian.  My bad.

The man did his time.  He admitted his fault. He bettered his life.  And the country he signed up to defended dropped a steaming pile of #2 on his head and life because of one indiscretion.

[*bfine32*]

(03-28-2018, 12:40 PM)GMDino Wrote: Huh...thought you were a Christian.  My bad.

The man did his time.  He admitted his fault. He bettered his life.  And the country he signed up to defended dropped a steaming pile of #2 on his head and life because of one indiscretion.

No need to apologize. Christian forgiveness has nothing to do with the law of man. 

[GMDino]

(03-28-2018, 12:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: No need to apologize. Christian forgiveness has nothing to do with the law of man. 

Sure it does...in a Christian nation.  Right?

But since you don't understand the concept I'll let it pass.

[*Nately120*]

(03-28-2018, 12:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: No need to apologize. Christian forgiveness has nothing to do with the law of man. 

That would explain why it's so damn attractive to people.

[*michaelsean*]

Gotta go with bfine. Don't know what Christianity has to do with it. I have mixed feelings on this particular case, but of course the thread has already been poisoned.
'

[GMDino]

(03-28-2018, 01:29 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Gotta go with bfine.  Don't know what Christianity has to do with it.  I have mixed feelings on this particular case, but of course the thread has already been poisoned.  
'

Weird...I thought this Christian Nation was about forgiveness.  I guess I was wrong about the number of Christians in this country who believed we should take care of each other and forgive those who have sinned.

Apparently it means kick them out of the country.

I mean unless they had multiple affairs and are habitual liars.  Then we have to pray they will change.

My bad, again.

[*michaelsean*]

(03-28-2018, 01:36 PM)GMDino Wrote: Weird...I thought this Christian Nation was about forgiveness.  I guess I was wrong about the number of Christians in this country who believed we should take care of each other and forgive those who have sinned.

Apparently it means kick them out of the country.

I mean unless they had multiple affairs and are habitual liars.  Then we have to pray they will change.

My bad, again.

So you're OK with someone in the government saying, "As a Christian I can't deport this man".  And what does the whole country have to do with it? It's a board that reviews each deportation order.

But throwing in the part about a  citizen didn't commit any crimes really clears the waters.

[StLucieBengal]

On the actual immigration issue.

They mentioned they have discretion and took a long look at the case before deciding to deport him.

Drug charges plus a prison sentence outweighs his service. Plus his ability to find a job as a convicted felon puts his chances of success lower than the typical immigrant.

[Griever]

we all know christians cherry pick the bible...if they didnt, they would have to be ok with foreigners in the US (legal status doesnt matter either)

Leviticus 19:33-34 New Living Translation (NLT)
33 “Do not take advantage of foreigners who live among you in your land. 34 Treat them like native-born Israelites, and love them as you love yourself. Remember that you were once foreigners living in the land of Egypt. I am the Lord your God.

[*michaelsean*]

(03-28-2018, 01:59 PM)Griever Wrote: we all know christians cherry pick the bible...if they didnt, they would have to be ok with foreigners in the US (legal status doesnt matter either)

Leviticus 19:33-34 New Living Translation (NLT)
33 “Do not take advantage of foreigners who live among you in your land. 34 Treat them like native-born Israelites, and love them as you love yourself. Remember that you were once foreigners living in the land of Egypt. I am the Lord your God.

So I'm confused.  Do you want us to base our laws on Christianity or no?  The fact that they are not seems to bother you.  There may be a lot of Christians who think exactly this. Is that how you want us to make decisions, or are you just cherry picking what you want Christians to be outraged about?

[GMDino]

We have leaders who claim that we are a Christian Nation.  Leaders who base their interpretations of law on their religious beliefs and who claim we need God (the Christian one) back in our country.

At the same time they refuse to forgive those who broke laws and served their punishment.

If one arrest and jail time "outweighs" signing up to serve this country we have lost all meaning of what "christian" means.

Not that I didn't know that already...but pointing out the sheer hypocrisy of those who continue to claim it is what I do.

[*michaelsean*]

(03-28-2018, 02:07 PM)GMDino Wrote: We have leaders who claim that we are a Christian Nation.  Leaders who base their interpretations of law on their religious beliefs and who claim we need God (the Christian one) back in our country.

At the same time they refuse to forgive those who broke laws and served their punishment.

If one arrest and jail time "outweighs" signing up to serve this country we have lost all meaning of what "christian" means.

Not that I didn't know that already...but pointing out the sheer hypocrisy of those who continue to claim it is what I do.

Forgiven does not mean without consequence, and what exactly would you like some elected representative to do?  

I know you want to get a jab in, and that's fine, and usually I get the jab, but this one makes no sense.  

[Belsnickel]

Yeah, the whole thread title thing is unnecessary. It's clickbait and trolling.

As for the article, I have mixed feelings. He has a drug conviction. On the other hand, had he gotten the help he needed for PTSD he may not have self-medicated. I have mixed feelings on the issue overall.

[*michaelsean*]

(03-28-2018, 02:12 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Yeah, the whole thread title thing is unnecessary. It's clickbait and trolling.

As for the article, I have mixed feelings. He has a drug conviction. On the other hand, had he gotten the help he needed for PTSD he may not have self-medicated. I have mixed feelings on the issue overall.

Yeah it's a tough one.  I don't know that PTSD comes into play when deciding to deliver cocaine, but he did serve two tours.  

[GMDino]

(03-28-2018, 02:12 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Yeah, the whole thread title thing is unnecessary. It's clickbait and trolling.

Not one bit. That is exactly what Trump supporters have said about him. It is something that is part of the national conversation of us as a Christian Nation and part of how the evangelicals continue to justify their support of Trump.

(03-28-2018, 02:12 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: As for the article, I have mixed feelings. He has a drug conviction. On the other hand, had he gotten the help he needed for PTSD he may not have self-medicated. I have mixed feelings on the issue overall.

And the kind of Christian forgiveness we should be showing this man versus the mania for making sure we kick out the low hanging fruit rather than those who truly are not serving a purpose being here.

It is, as some have phrased, a no brainer.

[StLucieBengal]

(03-28-2018, 02:12 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Yeah, the whole thread title thing is unnecessary. It's clickbait and trolling.

As for the article, I have mixed feelings. He has a drug conviction. On the other hand, had he gotten the help he needed for PTSD he may not have self-medicated. I have mixed feelings on the issue overall.

Had we been aggressively enforcing the immigration policy none of these people would have fallen through the cracks to the point these hard decisions must be made.

The benefit of aggressive enforcement is people try and find the way to get right who are makes an honest effort to get right.

[Griever]

(03-28-2018, 02:03 PM)michaelsean Wrote: So I'm confused.  Do you want us to base our laws on Christianity or no?  The fact that they are not seems to bother you.  There may be a lot of Christians who think exactly this.  Is that how you want us to make decisions, or are you just cherry picking what you want Christians to be outraged about?

nope, christianity (religion in general) has no place in the political spectrum

just that we have people who claim christianity, that the country are founded on christian principles, but then ignore parts of the bible that go against how they feel about a certain type of people

just pointing out the hypocrisy of folks

[*michaelsean*]

(03-28-2018, 02:18 PM)GMDino Wrote: Not one bit.  That is exactly what Trump supporters have said about him.  It is something that is part of the national conversation of us as a Christian Nation and part of how the evangelicals continue to justify their support of Trump.


And the kind of Christian forgiveness we should be showing this man versus the mania for making sure we kick out the low hanging fruit rather than those who truly are not serving a purpose being here.

It is, as some have phrased, a no brainer.

There is no law involved in whether you forgive Trump or not.  Every last one of us can forgive the soldier, and it doesn't change a thing.