Why does he refuse to condemn them?

[BmorePat87]

(09-30-2020, 03:17 PM)Dill Wrote: Were the "fine people" among the neo-Nazis, marching with them as they chanted "Jews will not replace us"? 

How long do you stay after they start chanting that before you decide it’s not about the statues and you don’t support Nazis? 1 minute? 5 minutes? 2 days?

[Dill]

(09-30-2020, 03:41 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: How long do you stay after they start chanting that before you decide it’s not about the statues and you don’t support Nazis? 1 minute? 5 minutes? 2 days?

SSF has the right policy there. 

First time I hear "jews will not replace us" I toss my torch in the gutter and sprint out of there.

[BmorePat87]

(09-30-2020, 04:59 PM)Dill Wrote: SSF has the right policy there. 

First time I hear "jews will not replace us" I toss my torch in the gutter and sprint out of there.

Same. So we have to infer that anyone defending Trump's "fine people" statement by arguing that not all of the attendees were part of the Neo Nazi White Supremacist crowd is suggesting that those "fine people" were absolutely okay with the level of Nazi slogans and flags at the Neo Nazi organized event. I do not know anyone who isn't a Nazi who is okay with that much Nazi paraphernalia. 

[*bfine32*]

Probably doesn't matter to many but:
https://news.yahoo.com/trump-tries-step-proud-boys-193349082.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9yLnNlYXJjaC55YWhvby5jb20vX3lsdD1Bd3JDMUNtcTZYUmZQU0VBSXc3UXRETUQ7X3lsdT1ZMjlzYndOaVpqRUVjRzl6QXpVRWRuUnBaQU5ETURZM04xOHhCSE5sWXdOemNnLS0vUlY9Mi9SRT0xNjAxNTI2MzE0L1JPPTEwL1JVPWh0dHBzJTNhJTJmJTJmbmV3cy55YWhvby5jb20lMmZ0cnVtcC10cmllcy1zdGVwLXByb3VkLWJveXMtMTkzMzQ5MDgyLmh0bWwvUks9Mi9SUz0wa3RpN2M2aUkzc0F5SnZmcGdXOVk4YkxoVE0t&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAIPj3d7IMvpAz5ANfImJrhQLjW9212iJDQz_gx2CwgPHCAfWes3KUnQM4ztMmn89chfHjD3UeaQFkVC80S_d0pQpwbVmcuRrP2HQtVCc5acTtRUv-gfzwhq8RPThBfzWb9vGVf9X5dgAbvoIOETn0mCG7PYPF_eGMhakHlAiNxo5

Quote:You’ll have to give me a definition because I really don’t know who they are. I can only say they have to stand down, let law enforcement do their work. Law enforcement will do the work more and more.”........
“I’ve always denounced any form, any form, of any of that,” Trump said

Most likely not plain enough

[Dill]

(09-30-2020, 05:17 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Same. So we have to infer that anyone defending Trump's "fine people" statement by arguing that not all of the attendees were part of the Neo Nazi White Supremacist crowd is suggesting that those "fine people" were absolutely okay with the level of Nazi slogans and flags at the Neo Nazi organized event. I do not know anyone who isn't a Nazi who is okay with that much Nazi paraphernalia. 

Now Bpat, I'm sure that some of those people were "uncomfortable" with racism and nazi regalia. 

But the statues, cultural "heritage"--saving that was the point, what kept them going.

[hollodero]

(09-30-2020, 05:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Probably doesn't matter to many but:
https://news.yahoo.com/trump-tries-step-proud-boys-193349082.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9yLnNlYXJjaC55YWhvby5jb20vX3lsdD1Bd3JDMUNtcTZYUmZQU0VBSXc3UXRETUQ7X3lsdT1ZMjlzYndOaVpqRUVjRzl6QXpVRWRuUnBaQU5ETURZM04xOHhCSE5sWXdOemNnLS0vUlY9Mi9SRT0xNjAxNTI2MzE0L1JPPTEwL1JVPWh0dHBzJTNhJTJmJTJmbmV3cy55YWhvby5jb20lMmZ0cnVtcC10cmllcy1zdGVwLXByb3VkLWJveXMtMTkzMzQ5MDgyLmh0bWwvUks9Mi9SUz0wa3RpN2M2aUkzc0F5SnZmcGdXOVk4YkxoVE0t&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAIPj3d7IMvpAz5ANfImJrhQLjW9212iJDQz_gx2CwgPHCAfWes3KUnQM4ztMmn89chfHjD3UeaQFkVC80S_d0pQpwbVmcuRrP2HQtVCc5acTtRUv-gfzwhq8RPThBfzWb9vGVf9X5dgAbvoIOETn0mCG7PYPF_eGMhakHlAiNxo5


Most likely not plain enough

Well, for starters Trump claiming he does not know who the proud boys are is just not credible.

He brought them up in the debate on his own, after all.

[BmorePat87]

It took asking twice for Trump to say he "denounced any form of it" after first responding to the question by praising law enforcement.

TRUMP: "I don't know who the Proud Boys are. You'll have to give me a definition because I really don't know who they are. I can only say they have to stand down and let law enforcement do their work. ... As people see how bad this radical liberal Democrat movement is and how weak, the law enforcement is going to come back stronger and stronger. But again, I don't know who Proud Boys are, but whoever they are, they have to stand down and let law enforcement do their work.

REPORTER: "Mr. President, during the speech when you said 'stand by,' that might be---"

TRUMP: "Just stand by. Look, law enforcement will do their work. They're going to stand down, they have to stand down. Everybody. Whatever group you are talking about, let law enforcement do the work. Now, antifa is a real problem. Because the problem is on the left. And Biden refuses to talk about it. He refuses to issue the words Law and Order."

REPORTER: "White supremacists clearly love you. Do you welcome that?"

TRUMP: "I want law and order to be a very important part, it's a very important part of my campaign. And when I say that, what I'm talking about is Law Enforcement has to take care. And they should stop defunding the police like they've done in New York"

REPORTER: "But do you denounce it?"

Trump: "I've always denounced any form of any of that, but Joe Biden has to say something about Antifa"

[BmorePat87]

(09-30-2020, 05:36 PM)hollodero Wrote: Well, for starters Trump claiming he does not know who the proud boys are is just not credible.

He brought them up in the debate on his own, after all.

Biden brought them up, but, you're right that it's not credible.

[*bfine32*]

(09-30-2020, 05:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Probably doesn't matter to many but:



Most likely not plain enough

(09-30-2020, 05:36 PM)hollodero Wrote: Well, for starters Trump claiming he does not know who the proud boys are is just not credible.

He brought them up in the debate on his own, after a

BmorePat87 Wrote:It took asking twice for Trump to say he "denounced any form of it" after first responding to the question by praising law enforcement.

Did I call it or did I call it.

[masonbengals fan]

(09-30-2020, 02:51 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Your position is remarkably similar to mine in regards to the current protests, although that has less to do with the organizers (if there are any) and more to do with the participants.  If I show up at what I believe to be a patriotic rally and I see Nazi flags I'm instantly out of there.  If I show up at an anti-police brutality rally and people start throwing thigs at the police, vandalizing or looting then I'm instantly out of there.  Once either of those things start happening and you're still there you're not "very fine people" in my book.

[hollodero]

(09-30-2020, 05:39 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Biden brought them up, but, you're right that it's not credible.

Are you sure about that? I just searched the transcript and the only mention of proud boys seemed to come from Trump.

For sure, Biden mentioning them first could have been missed in the transcript I read, and I could have overheard it. But yeah, it is as credible as hen Trump claimed he does not know David Duke or has no idea what white supremacy is supposed to mean.

[Dill]

(09-30-2020, 05:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Probably doesn't matter to many but:
Quote:You’ll have to give me a definition because I really don’t know who they are. I can only say they have to stand down, let law enforcement do their work. Law enforcement will do the work more and more.”........

“I’ve always denounced any form, any form, of any of that,” Trump said

Most likely not plain enough

Proud WHAT?? who?? LOL  David Duke??

Donald Trump and his Republican allies scrambled on Wednesday to clean up comments the president made during Tuesday’s debate, when he declined to condemn far-right extremist groups like the Proud Boys, and even told them to “stand by.”

But the act seemed tricky for Trump, who continued to bristle at the notion that he needed to denounce those who supported his campaign, even if they hailed from the militant far-right.

“I don’t know who the Proud Boys are,” the president declared, in what constituted an admission that he was unaware of a group that the FBI has classified as an “extremist” org. “I mean. You’ll have to give me a definition because I really don’t know who they are. I can only say they have to stand down, let law enforcement do their work. Law enforcement will do the work more and more.”

Asked plainly if he welcomed the support of white supremacists who “clearly love you,” Trump did not register the problem with that supposition. In fact, he bobbed his head in a seemingly knowing yes motion.

"I want law and order to be a very important part, it's a very important part of my campaign,” he said, taking no umbrage with the idea that he’d be loved by that community. Asked one more time, he finally gave an inch. “I’ve always denounced any form, any form, of any of that,” Trump said. “But Joe Biden has to say something about antifa.”

The remarks capped a frantic few hours, in which members of his own team insisted that he had either been set up by the debate moderator or been misunderstood, while elected Republicans—mainly Sens. Lindsey Graham and Tim Scott, both of South Carolina—called on him to recant his debate statement.

White House trade adviser Peter Navarro placed the lion’s share of the blame on debate moderator Chris Wallace, insisting on MSNBC that the Fox News Sunday anchor was acting as Biden’s “cut man” and didn’t give the president an opportunity to disavow extremists and set him up to shout out the Proud Boys.

 Trump couldn't get a word in edgewise with Wallace constantly interrupting him. 

DIDN'T JOE BIGGS HEAR Trump SAY HE WAS WILLING TO CONDEMN WHITE SUPREMACISTS?!?!?!

Joe Biggs, a prominent Proud Boy who has worn shirts declaring “I’m Just Here for the Violence” and celebrating the executions of left-wing Chilean activists thrown from helicopters, posted that Trump’s remarks were permission to “go **** them up.”

“Trump basically said to go **** them up!” Biggs wrote on Parler, a social media network popular with conservatives. “This makes me so happy.”

[BmorePat87]

(09-30-2020, 05:42 PM)hollodero Wrote: Are you sure about that? I just searched the transcript and the only mention of proud boys seemed to come from Trump.

For sure, Biden mentioning them first could have been missed in the transcript I read, and I could have overheard it. But yeah, it is as credible as hen Trump claimed he does not know David Duke or has no idea what white supremacy is supposed to mean.

Trump asks for a name of a white supremacist group and Biden says “Proud Boys”.

[BmorePat87]

(09-30-2020, 05:43 PM)Dill Wrote: Proud WHAT?? who?? LOL  David Duke??

Donald Trump and his Republican allies scrambled on Wednesday to clean up comments the president made during Tuesday’s debate, when he declined to condemn far-right extremist groups like the Proud Boys, and even told them to “stand by.”



But the act seemed tricky for Trump, who continued to bristle at the notion that he needed to denounce those who supported his campaign, even if they hailed from the militant far-right.



“I don’t know who the Proud Boys are,” the president declared, in what constituted an admission that he was unaware of a group that the FBI has classified as an “extremist” org. “I mean. You’ll have to give me a definition because I really don’t know who they are. I can only say they have to stand down, let law enforcement do their work. Law enforcement will do the work more and more.”


Asked plainly if he welcomed the support of white supremacists who “clearly love you,” Trump did not register the problem with that supposition. In fact, he bobbed his head in a seemingly knowing yes motion.


"I want law and order to be a very important part, it's a very important part of my campaign,” he said, taking no umbrage with the idea that he’d be loved by that community. Asked one more time, he finally gave an inch. “I’ve always denounced any form, any form, of any of that,” Trump said. “But Joe Biden has to say something about antifa.”

The remarks capped a frantic few hours, in which members of his own team insisted that he had either been set up by the debate moderator or been misunderstood, while elected Republicans—mainly Sens. Lindsey Graham and Tim Scott, both of South Carolina—called on him to recant his debate statement.

White House trade adviser Peter Navarro placed the lion’s share of the blame on debate moderator Chris Wallace, insisting on MSNBC that the Fox News Sunday anchor was acting as Biden’s “cut man” and didn’t give the president an opportunity to disavow extremists and set him up to shout out the Proud Boys.


 Trump couldn't get a word in edgewise with Wallace constantly interrupting him. 


DIDN'T JOE BIGGS HEAR HIM SAY HE WAS WILLING TO CONDEMN WHITE SUPREMACISTS?!?!?!

Joe Biggs, a prominent Proud Boy who has worn shirts declaring “I’m Just Here for the Violence” and celebrating the executions of left-wing Chilean activists thrown from helicopters, posted that Trump’s remarks were permission to “go **** them up.”

“Trump basically said to go **** them up!” Biggs wrote on Parler, a social media network popular with conservatives. “This makes me so happy.”

After last night I’m not sure why it took asking it twice. The answer to “do you welcome white supremacists” isn’t “I support law enforcement”.

[NATI BENGALS]

(09-30-2020, 05:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Probably doesn't matter to many but:
https://news.yahoo.com/trump-tries-step-proud-boys-193349082.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9yLnNlYXJjaC55YWhvby5jb20vX3lsdD1Bd3JDMUNtcTZYUmZQU0VBSXc3UXRETUQ7X3lsdT1ZMjlzYndOaVpqRUVjRzl6QXpVRWRuUnBaQU5ETURZM04xOHhCSE5sWXdOemNnLS0vUlY9Mi9SRT0xNjAxNTI2MzE0L1JPPTEwL1JVPWh0dHBzJTNhJTJmJTJmbmV3cy55YWhvby5jb20lMmZ0cnVtcC10cmllcy1zdGVwLXByb3VkLWJveXMtMTkzMzQ5MDgyLmh0bWwvUks9Mi9SUz0wa3RpN2M2aUkzc0F5SnZmcGdXOVk4YkxoVE0t&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAIPj3d7IMvpAz5ANfImJrhQLjW9212iJDQz_gx2CwgPHCAfWes3KUnQM4ztMmn89chfHjD3UeaQFkVC80S_d0pQpwbVmcuRrP2HQtVCc5acTtRUv-gfzwhq8RPThBfzWb9vGVf9X5dgAbvoIOETn0mCG7PYPF_eGMhakHlAiNxo5


Most likely not plain enough

I’m confused. Are you saying he is golfing so much and pays so little attention to what is happening in the country he is in charge of that he doesn’t know who the proud boys are?

[BrownAssClown]

How many times did Trump tell Biden last night, "you just lost the left Joe, you just lost the left."? Trump sees things in black and white, left and right. You better say the right things to the people who support you or you'll lose their vote. When Trump was first ask the question about condemning White supremacy groups, he said "sure" without having to think about it, WHICH WAS THE RIGHT ANSWER! BUT..... Trumps brain let that sink in for a moment and the rusty wheels in his brain started turning, he said to himself, "WHOA! I can't lose a single vote at this point, I got to say something, so instead of looking into the camera and reaffirming condemnation for said groups, he says something so stupid I still have a hard time believing the President of the United States said it. He said to groups such as the Proud Boys, "Stand Back and Stand By." He doesn't want to alienate a large block of his supporters, he wants their vote. He knows "what side his bread is buttered on". At least Biden said he's against the violence , looting, and rioting NO MATTER WHO DOES IT! IT'S WRONG!" Then you have Trump replying to Biden, You just lost the left Joe, You just lost the left!"
Is Trump truly a racist deep down? I really don't know what goes on in his mind, if he is or is not, but I know he doesn't want to lose their support. He NEEDS it. It's all about winning with Trump, no matter what. I have a good idea as to why he REALLY doesn't want to lose this election, and it's really not that hard to figure out.
Joe Biden has said he will accept the results of the up coming election once it is certified, win or lose. The President is taking a wait and see approach and has yet to say whether he will. What's Trump going to do if he doesn't like the outcome of the election? Is he going to sic the "Proud Boys" on us? Is that why he wants them to stand by?

[hollodero]

(09-30-2020, 05:45 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Trump asks for a name of a white supremacist group and Biden says “Proud Boys”.

Yeah you're right. It was not in the transcript, but one could actually hear Biden say it. My mistake.

[Dill]

(09-30-2020, 05:47 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: After last night I’m not sure why it took asking it twice.
The answer to “do you welcome white supremacists” isn’t “I support law enforcement”.

Well now, I don't know about that Bpat.  

What do you mean by "white supremacy" and what groups are you talking about? 


Say--YOU aren't against law enforcement, are you??

Do you think it's right that entire US cities are burning to the ground? 

[*bfine32*]

Title of thread should be changed to:

"Why does he refuse to condemn them the way we want him to"

[Dill]

(09-30-2020, 05:50 PM)BrownAssClown Wrote: How many times did Trump tell Biden last night, "you just lost the left Joe, you just lost the left."? Trump sees things in black and white, left and right. You better say the right things to the people who support you or you'll lose their vote. When Trump was first ask the question about condemning White supremacy groups, he said "sure" without having to think about it, WHICH WAS THE RIGHT ANSWER! BUT..... Trumps brain let that sink in for a moment and the rusty wheels in his brain started turning, he said to himself, "WHOA! I can't lose a single vote at this point, I got to say something, so instead of looking into the camera and reaffirming condemnation for said groups, he says something so stupid I still have a hard time believing the President of the United States said it.

Good insight there, about the "you lost the left" comments. And it helps explain why he can't do any better the next day when asked to "clarify" his statements. Just like Charlottesville.

Also why he can't put out a hard and unambiguous statement at a press conference, unasked, followed by some kind of action--like firing Stephen Miller.

(09-30-2020, 05:50 PM)BrownAssClown Wrote: Joe Biden has said he will accept the results of the up coming election once it is certified, win or lose. The President is taking a wait and see approach and has yet to say whether he will. What's Trump going to do if he doesn't like the outcome of the election? Is he going to sic the "Proud Boys" on us? Is that why he wants them to stand by?

I don't think Trump is taking a "wait and see" approach. I think he is proactively sowing confusion, and serious about throwing it all to the House or the Supreme Court.