With Merkel's Foes in Disarray, Germany Defies the Trump Trend

[fredtoast]

(04-24-2017, 05:29 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Yes, I find it odd that the left has latched on to the most misogynistic, homophobic and theocratic organization on Earth.

I find it odd that the right is opposed to religious freedom.  And no one on the left is in favor of homophobia, misogyny or theocracy.

Maybe you should pull your head out of the Fox News echo chamber and look at how Muslims live here in the United States.

It is comical for thew right, who opposed equal protection under the law for homosexuals here in the UNited States, to accuse the left of being homophobic just because we don't support taking over the Muslims and making them all believe they way we do.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-24-2017, 07:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I find it odd that the right is opposed to religious freedom.

I'd tend to agree.

Quote: And no one on the left is in favor of homophobia, misogyny  or theocracy.

Odd then, that they defend the biggest perpetrators of both in the world.  I forgot Antisemitism as well, can't forget that.

Quote:Maybe you should pull your head out of the Fox News echo chamber and look at how Muslims live here in the United States.

Haha, talking point much?  I've never watched Fox News except when John Stewart or Howard Stern appeared on the channel.

Quote:It is comical for thew right, who opposed equal protection under the law for homosexuals here in the UNited States, to accuse the left of being homophobic just because we don't support taking over the Muslims and making them all believe they way we do.

I'd agree.  Seeing as I'm not remotely right wing you'll have to make that point to someone else though.

[fredtoast]

(04-24-2017, 08:10 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Odd then, that they defend the biggest perpetrators of both in the world.  I forgot Antisemitism as well, can't forget that.

Not odd when you are cxapable of looking around at reality and seeing how many Musilms live in this country.  But I guess that is beyond you.

The left does not support any of the bad things that radical Islam stands for, but we still believe that it is better to allow freedom of religion than to kill or imprison everyone who practices a religion we do not agree with.

So what do you suggest is the proper way to address the Muslim religion in the world.   Since you oppose it so strongly how are you going to get rid of it?


Do you agree that Muslims should not be allowed to hold elected office oin the United States?  And if you do believe they should be allowedto hiold office does that mean you also support mysogeny and homophobia?
 

[GMDino]

(04-25-2017, 09:21 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Not odd when you are cxapable of looking around at reality and seeing how many Musilms live in this country.  But I guess that is beyond you.

The left does not support any of the bad things that radical Islam stands for, but we still believe that it is better to allow freedom of religion than to kill or imprison everyone who practices a religion we do not agree with.

So what do you suggest is the proper way to address the Muslim religion in the world.   Since you oppose it so strongly how are you going to get rid of it?


Do you agree that Muslims should not be allowed to hold elected office oin the United States?  And if you do believe they should be allowedto hiold office does that mean you also support mysogeny and homophobia?
 

Much like christians say don't support the fringe members of their own religion.

I am for you believing what you want...as long as you do not harm/infringe on the rights of any other fellow citizen.

Want to believe all gay people go to hell?  Good for you.  Can't stone them, can't fire them for being gay.  Especially in this country where we treat all our citizens equally.*














*Some conditions may apply.  Some people are more equal than others.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-25-2017, 09:21 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Not odd when you are cxapable of looking around at reality and seeing how many Musilms live in this country.  But I guess that is beyond you.

What does the number of adherents in this country have to do with the religion's teachings?

Quote:The left does not support any of the bad things that radical Islam stands for, but we still believe that it is better to allow freedom of religion than to kill or imprison everyone who practices a religion we do not agree with.

Oh my, I'm sure glad your here to correct all those people calling for muslims to be imprisoned or killed because of their faith.  You know, all zero of them.  Without hyperbole most of your posts would be in single digit characters.

Quote:So what do you suggest is the proper way to address the Muslim religion in the world.   Since you oppose it so strongly how are you going to get rid of it?

First you address it by actually addressing it.  Right now the trend is to pretend that there are no inherent issues with the teaching if islam.  You are right, I strongly oppose blowing yourself and others up, mutilating the genitals of females, treating women as third class citizens, executing homosexuals for the crime of being homosexual, executing people who are of a different religion than you (didn't you claim someone here advocated for that?) and any of the other myriad crimes committed in the name of islam on a daily basis on this planet.  As to how to "get rid of it", as you ask in your hyperbolic way, that needs to come from within, but the start is to no longer turn a blind eye to the problem and pretend it's the work solely of fringe elements.

Let's use the Westboro Baptist Church as an example.  How much press and attention have they gotten over the years?  How universally are their actions reviled?  They represent probably .00000000000001% of christians.  Also, while despicable, their actions have never involved violence.  Why are we so comfortable castigating them for their beliefs and yet we constantly seek to mitigate the actions of a much larger percentage of islam that engages in disgusting acts on a daily basis?

Quote:Do you agree that Muslims should not be allowed to hold elected office oin the United States?

LoL, hyperbole.

Quote: And if you do believe they should be allowedto hiold office does that mean you also support mysogeny and homophobia? 

I believe they should be asked questions, such as do they roundly condemn the actions of islamic terrorists?  I'd also ask them if people should be allowed to draw Muhammad, call Muhammad a pig, satirize islam, i.e. treat islam like any other religion.  If those questions are actually asked and honestly answered then the voters will have the information to make up their own minds.   That's how the system works.

[fredtoast]

(04-25-2017, 10:55 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote:  Right now the trend is to pretend that there are no inherent issues with the teaching if islam.

Uh, no.  That is not the trend at all.

The real trend is for people to say something like this in a right wing echo chamber and everyone who lives their just blindly accepts it.

Please list everyone from the left who has claimed that there are no inherit issues with the teaching of Islam.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-25-2017, 11:48 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Uh, no.  That is not the trend at all.

The real trend is for people to say something like this in a right wing echo chamber and everyone who lives their just blindly accepts it.

Please list everyone from the left who has claimed that there are no inherit issues with the teaching of Islam.

Typical Fred response, ignore everything you can't address and focuses on minutiae.  You do know everyone who frequents this sub-forum is wise your tendencies in this regard?

As to your last question start with Keith Ellison and branch out from there.  Sincerely, the question is so inane I'm stunned you actually asked it.

[fredtoast]

(04-25-2017, 10:55 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: What does the number of adherents in this country have to do with the religion's teachings?

The number has NOTHING to do with it.  The point I was making is the way they live their lives.  If you ever come out of the echo chamber you will be stunned to see Muslim women working and driving; Muslims serving in the US military that are not trying to kill all Christians; Muslims that do not want to kill all homosexuals.

[fredtoast]

(04-25-2017, 12:02 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: As to your last question start with Keith Ellison and branch out from there.  Sincerely, the question is so inane I'm stunned you actually asked it.

Ellison has been in favor of LGBT rights.

You have no clue what you are talking about.  After claiming that the entire left supports the objectionable tenets of Islam you coime up with ONE name of  Democrat who does NOT support all of the objectionable tents of Islam.

if the question is so stupid why could you not come up with ONE answer?

[*bfine32*]

A synopsis of how the left thinks in 2 consecutive posts

Fredtoast Wrote:The left does not support any of the bad things that radical Islam stands for, but we still believe that it is better to allow freedom of religion than to kill or imprison everyone who practices a religion we do not agree with.

(04-25-2017, 09:54 AM)GMDino Wrote: Want to believe all gay people go to hell?  Good for you.  Can't stone them, can't fire them for being gay.  Especially in this country where we treat all our citizens equally.*


*Some conditions may apply.  Some people are more equal than others.

Poster A assures us the left doesn't support any of the "bad" things of their views

Poster B implies the conservative supports the "bad" things of their views


You guys are entertaining.

[fredtoast]

(04-25-2017, 12:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Poster A assures us the left doesn't support any of the "bad" things of their views

Poster B implies the conservative supports the "bad" things of their views

So do you have an opinion on these two comments?

Do you think one, both, or neither of them is true?

Or are you even interested in having a conversation?

Personally I don't think all Christians support the Westboro Church and I don't think everyone on the left supports honor killings.  But whenever anyone from the right makes a crazy accusation against the left I can understand why the Westboro church argument is brought up to show how stupid that claim is.

[BmorePat87]

(04-25-2017, 12:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote: A synopsis of how the left thinks in 2 consecutive posts



Poster A assures us the left doesn't support any of the "bad" things of their views

Poster B implies the conservative supports the "bad" things of their views


You guys are entertaining.

I'm new to this thread, but didn't you just leave out the part where Dino said "most Christians say [sic] don't support the fringe members of their own religion". 

Not only did he not even say Conservatives do these things, he said most Christians do not support these things. 

I might be missing something, and if I am, I welcome a correction. 

[*bfine32*]

(04-25-2017, 12:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 1) So do you have an opinion on these two comments?

2) Do you think one, both, or neither of them is true?

3) Or are you even interested in having a conversation?

4) Personally I don't think all Christians support the Westboro Church and I don't think everyone on the left supports honor killings.  But whenever anyone from the right makes a crazy accusation against the left I can understand why the Westboro church argument is brought up to show how stupid that claim is.

1. Of course I have an opinion and I shared it. The left sees themselves as much more enlightened than the right. The 2 consecutive posts illustrated such.

2. both are a point of view. Factual is irrelevant to the sender

3. Not with you as experience has shown me where it will lead

4. But apparently you cannot understand why someone would bring up the dynamic of the Left's vocal support of a religion that practices Shira Law in many cases.

[*bfine32*]

(04-25-2017, 12:42 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I'm new to this thread, but didn't you just leave out the part where Dino said "most Christians say [sic] don't support the fringe members of their own religion". 

Not only did he not even say Conservatives do these things, he said most Christians do not support these things. 

I might be missing something, and if I am, I welcome a correction. 

No need for correction. He was simply supporting his Fred's assertion that the left in general  doesn't support the fringe (If you consider Muslims that support Shira as fringe).

I see no connection between that and the final bullet where he implied folks want to stone and fire homosexuals 

You know what: Upon reflection you are correct. Point taken

[fredtoast]

(04-25-2017, 12:50 PM)bfine32 Wrote: 4. But apparently you cannot understand why someone would bring up the dynamic of the Left's vocal support of a religion that practices Shira Law in many cases.

The left supports peoples rights to freedom of religion.  We do not support the religion.  Just like I can support the right for someone to say something I disagree with.

So far the people squealing about how the left supports all of the objectionable tenants of Islam have produced ZERO excamples to back up that claim.  There was one weak attempt to throw Keith ellison in there, but anyone who is willing to take even a small peak outside of the echo chamber would realize that Ellison supports LGBT rights.

You all are trying to make an argument that does not stand up anywhere except in the right wing echo chamber.  It is like claiming that everyone who supports freedom of speech also supports the hatred spewed by the KKK.  You have to be a little detached from reality to believe that the left in this country is all converting to Islam. 

[GMDino]

(04-25-2017, 12:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote: A synopsis of how the left thinks in 2 consecutive posts



Poster A assures us the left doesn't support any of the "bad" things of their views

Poster B implies the conservative supports the "bad" things of their views


You guys are entertaining.

I guess I'm "B".  I was defending people's rights to have their religious beliefs without interference.  Not sure how you got your interpretation but I'm also sure you'll explain it.

Your "implication" makes no sense.

[Dill]

(04-24-2017, 04:31 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Nazi analogies are just plain moronic.  Just like comparing Obama to Stalin, it's nonsense.  

Unless they fit--and that depends on what the terms of the analogy are.  Obama to Stalin doesn't.

[Dill]

(04-24-2017, 05:29 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Yes, I find it odd that the left has latched on to the most misogynistic, homophobic and theocratic organization on Earth.  Normally the left is against things like treating woman as third class citizens and executing homosexuals for the crime of being homosexual. I find it odd that you don't find that odd.

In what sense has "the left"--or whomever you mean by that--latched on to the most misogynistic, homophobic and theocratic organization on earth.  And what is that "organization"?  Which "leftists" are you referring to? 

(04-25-2017, 10:55 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Right now the trend is to pretend that there are no inherent issues with the teaching if islam.  

You are right, I strongly oppose blowing yourself and others up, mutilating the genitals of females, treating women as third class citizens, executing homosexuals for the crime of being homosexual, executing people who are of a different religion than you (didn't you claim someone here advocated for that?) and any of the other myriad crimes committed in the name of islam on a daily basis on this planet.  As to how to "get rid of it", as you ask in your hyperbolic way, that needs to come from within, but the start is to no longer turn a blind eye to the problem and pretend it's the work solely of fringe elements.

Can you name some indices of this trend outside of alt-right websites and Fox News?

Why would you juxtapose the first two sentences.  Is Islam about blowing yourself up, mutilating genitals, treating women as third class citizens and executing homosexuals.

Will you be arguing that Christianity and Judaism are not to be identified with the aforementioned practices because a smaller percentage of them support them?  

Are there fringe elements in Islam or not?

[fredtoast]

(04-25-2017, 12:50 PM)bfine32 Wrote: 2. both are a point of view. Factual is irrelevant to the sender

I was not asking about the sender.  i was asking your opinion.

Do you think one, both, or neither are true?

And if you are afraid to give your opinion then just say so.  I will understand.

[Dill]

(04-25-2017, 01:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The left supports peoples rights to freedom of religion.  We do not support the religion.  Just like I can support the right for someone to say something I disagree with.

So far the people squealing about how the left supports all of the objectionable tenants of Islam have produced ZERO excamples to back up that claim.  There was one weak attempt to throw Keith ellison in there, but anyone who is willing to take even a small peak outside of the echo chamber would realize that Ellison supports LGBT rights.

You all are trying to make an argument that does not stand up anywhere except in the right wing echo chamber.  It is like claiming that everyone who supports freedom of speech also supports the hatred spewed by the KKK.  You have to be a little detached from reality to believe that the left in this country is all converting to Islam. 

Well said. Three excellent points.