Europe and Muslim Immigrants

[Mike M (the other one)]

(03-15-2016, 12:29 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: The way millions do. They find a job, they use a fake Social Security Number (paying into the system and never being able to receive the benefits), and they don't commit crimes. 

Impersonating a USC is still a felony. They also get their benefits thru anchor babies.


Do you want to know why we will never offer them mass amnesty?

Simple, bringing in 13 million uneducated unskilled workers will be a bigger tax drain on our system than leaving them as illegals will.
Making them legal will not result in a net gain on taxes vs the amount of benefits we will have to give them for working and making a career out of being a door greeters at Wal-mart and trying to support a family of 4+.

I suppose you could always fall back on the "but they do the jobs that USC's won't do".

http://cis.org/illegalImmigration-employment
http://www.cis.org/sites/cis.org/files/articles/2009/bigtable2.html

According to that data, there's plenty of American's doing those jobs already, and that data is prior to the recession.

[fredtoast]

(03-15-2016, 03:44 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Making them legal will not result in a net gain on taxes vs the amount of benefits we will have to give them for working and making a career out of being a door greeters at Wal-mart and trying to support a family of 4+.

Right, because a Mexican child educated in the United States could never accomplish anything greater than being a greeter at Wal Mart.

And I thought your argument all along was that they were ALREADY getting all of these benefits.

[BmorePat87]

(03-15-2016, 03:44 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Impersonating a USC is still a felony.

You can live here illegally and never say you are a citizen. 

If all you have is that, then don't bother responding. If someone has a job, pays taxes, and stays out of trouble, good for them. I won't fight their deportation when ICE gets them, but I won't care if they go undetected as they're helping our economy. 

[Benton]

(03-14-2016, 08:50 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: How do you make them legal Trump? What's your plan?


That's rich, they put $100 billion back into the system over a 10 year period.. I think I did the math where Anchor Babies drain the Public School systems by $64.485 Billion annually. That's not including the cost of births, nor the SNAP we are giving to the babies family to keep them fed, nor the medical assistance for the USC.

I'd say what they pay in doesn't equate to what they use.

For those needed to help in the agriculture, there's a special VISA they can get. We don't need them here illegally.
Do it right and legal and I have no beef with anyone.

$64 billion seems pretty. Average us per student is around $12k. High estimates of anchor babies are around 300k. That's under $4 billion.

as far as the "do it right" I'm with you. I just think we differ on the how. The majority get paid cash, usually less than $15k, which is many times supporting an entire family. I don't see many of them saving up 5-6$k per person to stay.
and round ups are usually an ineffective waste of money. But I could see some kind of tax payback plan for the fee (you work a normal job with taxes taken out, they assess a percentage for your citizenship processing until its paid off). Like I said, I'm not big on citizenship for cash though.

[StLucieBengal]

(03-15-2016, 04:08 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: You can live here illegally and never say you are a citizen. 

If all you have is that, then don't bother responding. If someone has a job, pays taxes, and stays out of trouble, good for them. I won't fight their deportation when ICE gets them, but I won't care if they go undetected as they're helping our economy. 

Drug dealers also pay taxes, have a family, own property and improve the economy. Should they not be arrested for breaking the law as well?

[StLucieBengal]

Legal immigration isn't that difficult. Does it cost money..... Yes. It costs for a reason.... It ensures people are serious.

I don't understand why anyone favors these freeloaders who snuck into this country like thieves in the night. They could easily have come in the right way.

My wife came here the right way. ... She even had to go home before we could get it finished. That's additional money we paid .... But it was important for us to get it done the correct and legal way. It would have been a whole lot cheaper for her to go to Mexico then cry about it later and try and demonstrate how great we are for the community and economy despite knowingly breaking the law.

The reason immigration sticks in my crawl is because it is a pain to jump through the hoops only to see someone try and skirt the process.

Let's not even get into the nonsense from Obama that allows Muslims to use the k-1 visa without even meeting their wife or husband.... Or showing any sort of history of a relationship.

[Bengalzona]

(03-15-2016, 03:44 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Impersonating a USC is still a felony.

This dude is in trouble!!

[Benton]

(03-15-2016, 06:03 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Legal immigration isn't that difficult.   Does it cost money..... Yes.    It costs for a reason....  It ensures people are serious.  

 

And it should. The only question is how much is equitable.

The whole 'send us your masses yearning to be free' didn't say 'send us your doctors and engineers.' My great-grandfather was a German immigrant who left Germany because he didn't like the way the country was heading. He was an uneducated guy with nothing. He turned it into a successful business. Every day we have people who travel thousands of miles and come here without knowing anyone or having a job, just the clothes on their backs. I'd say that was a serious commitment.

Quote:I don't understand why anyone favors these freeloaders who snuck into this country like thieves in the night.    They could easily have come in the right way.    


 

Two things.

1. Freeloaders is dishonest. Some are. But the majority are working, paying taxes and trying to contribute. They just don't know how.

2. Immigration funding has been cut for years and the process made more difficult. It's not an easy things for someone on limited means.

Quote:My wife came here the right way. ...  She even had to go home before we could get it finished.     That's additional money we paid ....  But it was important for us to get it done the correct and legal way.     It would have been a whole lot cheaper for her to go to Mexico then cry about it later and try and demonstrate how great we are for the community and economy despite knowingly breaking the law.      
 

Great. Now if we can only get you to handle the other 10-20 million illegal immigrants, plus the millions backlogged, that would be great.

You've got a lot of work ahead of you. If you can have that done by Tuesday, that's be great.

Quote: 
The reason immigration sticks in my crawl is because it is a pain to jump through the hoops only to see someone try and skirt the process.    

 

When the process is broken, people will find a way around it.

Quote: Let's not even get into the nonsense from Obama that allows Muslims to use the k-1 visa without even meeting their wife or husband.... Or showing any sort of history of a relationship.

https://www.uscis.gov/iframe/ilink/docView/SLB/HTML/SLB/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-11261/0-0-0-17197/0-0-0-18881.html

Obama was president in 2001 when the exemption was added? The guy's served, what, 15 years now?



And if you follow immigration at all, you know the exemption is a very, very rare thing. It's not granted to Muslims or any other religions specifically, only to ethnic groups where it's custom and even then, only where they can prove they have an extreme hardship that prevents them from meeting. It's not just a blanket "hey, me and Explosive Annie want to get married, but she's afraid of flying."

[StLucieBengal]

(03-15-2016, 06:26 PM)Benton Wrote: And it should. The only question is how much is equitable.

The whole 'send us your masses yearning to be free' didn't say 'send us your doctors and engineers.' My great-grandfather was a German immigrant who left Germany because he didn't like the way the country was heading. He was an uneducated guy with nothing. He turned it into a successful business. Every day we have people who travel thousands of miles and come here without knowing anyone or having a job, just the clothes on their backs. I'd say that was a serious commitment.



Two things.

1. Freeloaders is dishonest. Some are. But the majority are working, paying taxes and trying to contribute. They just don't know how.

2. Immigration funding has been cut for years and the process made more difficult. It's not an easy things for someone on limited means.



Great. Now if we can only get you to handle the other 10-20 million illegal immigrants, plus the millions backlogged, that would be great.

You've got a lot of work ahead of you. If you can have that done by Tuesday, that's be great.



When the process is broken, people will find a way around it.



https://www.uscis.gov/iframe/ilink/docView/SLB/HTML/SLB/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-11261/0-0-0-17197/0-0-0-18881.html

Obama was president in 2001 when the exemption was added? The guy's served, what, 15 years now?



And if you follow immigration at all, you know the exemption is a very, very rare thing. It's not granted to Muslims or any other religions specifically, only to ethnic groups where it's custom and even then, only where they can prove they have an extreme hardship that prevents them from meeting. It's not just a blanket "hey, me and Explosive Annie want to get married, but she's afraid of flying."

Ugh I typed a bunch of responses and my phone refreshed    I will edit.

I hate these mass quotes.

1. Send us your masses isn't relevant. Back then you could come here and starve. Now if you come here we will feed you and keep you Alive. So now anyone who comes is a potential burden.

2a. I was just in Belarus and I never met anyone who didn't know the cost and process for immigration to the USA. Are Belarussians that much more intelligent than illegals here? I doubt that.... They just care enough to know the process and it's important to them to follow the laws.

2b. If they can't afford it then they don't need to come here. They can save up the money. And if they are here they can go home and save up. Or get a sponsor. If they are that great in the community then maybe they can find someone who will sponsor them financially. Hey we can start with you.

3. I Can't handle anyone who doesn't want to follow the law. It's only important to them now because they can't stay illegally. You dismiss their crimes because they are these great people.... But the reality is the fact they are willing to break the law for this many years and never say a word.... Until the jig is up. Now they want to act like they are owed something. This says a lot about their character .... And basically shows why we can't have them here. If they cut this corner what else are they cutting to get ahead?

4. On marriage.... The whole idea to show you have met is to stop "Mail order brides" now these fringe groups say they can't meet so they can cut the k-1 process. If they need to be married without meeting then to US citizen should go live their for a time to so they can establish something to bring here. If I would have had to move to Belarus for a time to ensure my wife's file was sorted out legally I would have done that without blinking an eye.

[fredtoast]

(03-15-2016, 05:50 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Drug dealers also pay taxes, have a family, own property and improve the economy.    Should they not be arrested for breaking the law as well?

Pharmacists?  You want to arrest pharmacists?

You must be one of those progressives who thinks the government should have the power to restrict a free person's right to be a pharmacist.

[GMDino]

(03-15-2016, 05:50 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Drug dealers also pay taxes, have a family, own property and improve the economy.    Should they not be arrested for breaking the law as well?

And they are breaking the law.  Which virtually everyone understands.

The guy who is here illegally and is working in a legal business is not.

[StLucieBengal]

(03-15-2016, 07:11 PM)GMDino Wrote: And they are breaking the law.  Which virtually everyone understands.

The guy who is here illegally and is working in a legal business is not.

You do understand the definition of the word illegal right?

[Mike M (the other one)]

(03-15-2016, 04:51 PM)Benton Wrote: $64 billion seems pretty. Average us per student is around $12k. High estimates of anchor babies are around 300k. That's under $4 billion.

as far as the "do it right" I'm with you. I just think we differ on the how. The majority get paid cash, usually less than $15k, which is many times supporting an entire family. I don't see many of them saving up 5-6$k per person to stay.
and round ups are usually an ineffective waste of money. But I could see some kind of tax payback plan for the fee (you work a normal job with taxes taken out, they assess a percentage for your citizenship processing until its paid off). Like I said, I'm not big on citizenship for cash though.

Let's get absolutely technical (school age children listed):
Entering the pipeline soon:
2013 295k
2012 310k
2011 305k

These count now K-12
2010 320k
2009 330k
2008 355k
2007 370k
2006 370k
2005 355k
2004 335k
2003 315k
2002 300k
2001 295k
2000 240k
1999 215k
1998 190k
3.990 mil  Average cost per student: $12,400
$49.476 Billion this year. 50.9 billion the next year, 52.08 billion the next year, and 52.762 billion the year after that. 

Cost of birth for all of these kids: $73.5 Billion

As you can see, the bottom 3 groups are  smaller than the next 3 groups that will be added over each year.

Again, not including Medicare, SNAP, public housing, Earned Income Credit, Supplemental SS Benefits, Temporary assistance for needy families, cash.

That is being given to them as well.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(03-15-2016, 07:11 PM)GMDino Wrote: And they are breaking the law.  Which virtually everyone understands.

The guy who is here illegally and is working in a legal business is not.

that's an oxymoron.

Can't work for a company legally and be here illegally.

He has to report his taxes, and that requires a SSN, which he will not have.

[GMDino]

(03-15-2016, 07:36 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: that's an oxymoron.

Can't work for a company legally and be here illegally.

He has to report his taxes, and that requires a SSN, which he will not have.

That's why I said you go after the business owner too.

[StLucieBengal]

(03-15-2016, 07:59 PM)GMDino Wrote: That's why I said you go after the business owner too.

So you think we should round up the illegals and send them home. As long as we charge the employers as well.

[GMDino]

(03-15-2016, 08:05 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: So you think we should round up the illegals and send them home.   As long as we charge the employers as well.

No.  I think if they have been contributing to society and not in trouble with the law we should set them on the path to citizenship the right way.

Funding for that can come from fines for the companies that hired illegals and avoided paying their taxes on them.

[StLucieBengal]

(03-15-2016, 08:08 PM)GMDino Wrote: No.  I think if they have been contributing to society and not in trouble with the law we should set them on the path to citizenship the right way.

Funding for that can come from fines for the companies that hired illegals and avoided paying their taxes on them.

They are in trouble with the law. They are here illegally.

Why should they get funding over people who are actively trying to do it the legal way?    

How about send these law breakers home and use the money to fund legal applicants.  These illegals can go home and get in line legally.    Then of the money is there when it's there time they can get some benefit.  

My sister in law has been trying to come legally for while now.    Why shouldn't she get any help?   She hasn't broken any laws and followed the law to the letter.    She would be a better citizen just based on her ability to not break the law.

And the drug dealer contributed to society as well.    So should his crimes be wiped aside as well?

[Benton]

(03-15-2016, 07:01 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Ugh I typed a bunch of responses and my phone refreshed    I will edit.

I hate these mass quotes.  

1. Send us your masses isn't relevant.   Back then you could come here and starve.   Now if you come here we will feed you and keep you Alive.    So now anyone who comes is a potential burden.  

2a.  I was just in Belarus and I never met anyone who didn't know the cost and process for immigration to the USA.  Are Belarussians that much more intelligent than illegals here?     I doubt that....   They just care enough to know the process and it's important to them to follow the laws.    

2b.  If they can't afford it then they don't need to come here.    They can save up the money.   And if they are here they can go home and save up.   Or get a sponsor.   If they are that great in the community then maybe they can find someone who will sponsor them financially.    Hey we can start with you.  

3. I Can't handle anyone who doesn't want to follow the law.    It's only important to them now because they can't stay illegally.    You dismiss their crimes because they are these great people....  But the reality is the fact they are willing to break the law for this many years and never say a word.... Until the jig is up.  Now they want to act like they are owed something.   This says a lot about their character .... And basically shows why we can't have them here.      If they cut this corner what else are they cutting to get ahead?    

4. On marriage....    The whole idea to show you have met is to stop "Mail order brides"  now these fringe groups say they can't meet so they can cut the k-1 process.      If they need to be married without meeting then to US citizen should go live their for a time to so they can establish something to bring here.      If I would have had to move to Belarus for a time to ensure my wife's file was sorted out legally I would have done that without blinking an eye.

1. No. If you don't have a ssn, you don't get govt aide. Yes, there are a few loop holes. That's an overwhelming minority of minorities.
2a. Ok, ill take your word for it that you polled every bellarussian you met on the cost of immigrating to the us. Guess you got me there.
2b this is a dumb statement. I don't normally try to be that undiplomatic, but telling someone who lives on less than $2 a day to save up tens of thousands to come here? That's just dumb. Without some sort of mechanism in place that would limit all immigrants to a handful of countries.

and that's really the point, right? Handful of Europeans, some Russians?


3. Immigration law? You're complaining because people who dont want to follow immigration laws want to come to a country founded on breaking emigration laws?

4. Who was president in 2001?

[fredtoast]

(03-15-2016, 07:32 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Earned Income Credit, 

That is being given to them as well.

How do they get the EIC if they don't file taxes?