Alaskan boy participates in the girls state championship

[*bfine32*]

(06-08-2016, 05:19 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: Are you going to continuously flaunt your inability to comprehend what you read.  Obviously my stomach is not flat.  I got tired of getting black eyes.

What does that have to do with your wide hips?

[Benton]

(06-08-2016, 05:11 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: Hey look at that you and Benton have something in common.  Jelly-Bellies.

Your tenacity at "sit ups" brings a lot of guys together.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(06-08-2016, 02:19 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Number 1, where is the evidence of this? The rest I never stated were slipper slope arguments, so not sure what you're talking about there.


Um, no idea to what you are referring in that first bit. As for the rest of your statement here, you continually mock these people, inf act you did so in this statement by stating they all have a mental illness.


Males inherently have more muscle mass and their body structure is different, often lending itself to being stronger and faster. Of course, with situations like the young woman in the OP where she has used hormone blockers and replacement hormone therapy the body structure and muscle mass that she exhibits is that of a female because the hormone therapy causes these changes.

As long as you insult the whole group that is acceptable. But, if you're just referring to Marsha then you've crossed the line.

[Rotobeast]

(06-08-2016, 06:13 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: As long as you insult the whole group that is acceptable. But, if you're just referring to Marsha then you've crossed the line.

As a PA (assuming you haven't advanced by now), do you have an opinion regarding my question on fast-twitch muscles and possibly neurological differences between men/women and how that might play into the hormone therapy of transition ?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(06-08-2016, 06:20 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: As a PA (assuming you haven't advanced by now), do you have an opinion regarding my question on fast-twitch muscles and possibly neurological differences between men/women and how that might play into the hormone therapy of transition ?

Off the top of my head, no. The muscles body builders develop are fast twitch muscles. Comparing male body builders to female body builders I would intuitive guess males have more fast twitch muscles. However, I can't definitively state males have an increased percentage of fast twitch fibers, an increased absolute number of fast twitch fibers, or the difference is a result of increased muscular hypertrophy. Hormone replacement therapy will definitely affect that. Google J.K. Simmons. At 61 years of age that dude is on testosterone replacement therapy, HGH, or both.

I don't understand the neuro aspect of your question.

[Rotobeast]

(06-08-2016, 06:48 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Off the top of my head, no. The muscles body builders develop are fast twitch muscles. Comparing male body builders to female body builders I would intuitive guess males have more fast twitch muscles. However, I can't definitively state males have an increased percentage of fast twitch fibers, an increased absolute number of fast twitch fibers, or the difference is a result of increased muscular hypertrophy. Hormone replacement therapy will definitely affect that. Google J.K. Simmons. At 61 years of age that dude is on testosterone replacement therapy, HGH, or both.

I don't understand the neuro aspect of your question.

Thanks !
I am completely ignorant of any neuro aspect.
I thought I'd throw that in to save my lazy butt from googling.


So (of course), regarding the topic at hand.....
With a M to F hormone transition, would it change the fast-twitch muscles that were already formed ?

I'm sure if the therapy were started before puberty, there would be less difference in the matter.

I appreciate your input.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(06-08-2016, 07:35 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: Thanks !
I am completely ignorant of any neuro aspect.
I thought I'd throw that in to save my lazy butt from googling.


So (of course), regarding the topic at hand.....
With a M to F hormone transition, would it change the fast-twitch muscles that were already formed ?

I'm sure if the therapy were started before puberty, there would be less difference in the matter.

I appreciate your input.

I guess that would depend upon how you define change. Estrogen would most likely cause the muscles to atrophy and there would be less hypertrophy as a result of exercise. But, it can only do so much within the limits of each individual. I doubt it would make someone like Lou Ferigno look like a VS model. It might decrease the percentage and absolute number of fibers, as well. Again that is a guess. I mean how many studies are there on this topic? Probably not many and I certainly haven't read any on this topic. You would probably need to ask an endocrinologist who specializes in this to get the answers you seek. Even then I think the data is probably limited.

[Rotobeast]

(06-08-2016, 07:52 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I guess that would depend upon how you define change. Estrogen would most likely cause the muscles to atrophy and there would be less hypertrophy as a result of exercise. But, it can only do so much within the limits of each individual. I doubt it would make someone like Lou Ferigno look like a VS model. It might decrease the percentage and absolute number of fibers, as well. Again that is a guess. I mean how many studies are there on this topic? Probably not many and I certainly haven't read any on this topic. You would probably need to ask an endocrinologist who specializes in this to get the answers you seek. Even then I think the data is probably limited.

Thanks !
I feel it's rather relevant to the topic, but my google-fu was weak. (or my understanding of what I was reading)

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(06-08-2016, 08:10 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: Thanks !
I feel it's rather relevant to the topic, but my google-fu was weak. (or my understanding of what I was reading)

I think a lot of the potential changes with hormone therapy is limited by the individual.

To use a less than perfect analogy, think of football players. No amount of hormone replacement therapy will turn a LT into a CB and vice versa.

[Belsnickel]

(06-08-2016, 08:40 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I think a lot of the potential changes with hormone therapy is limited by the individual.

To use a less than perfect analogy, think of football players. No amount of hormone replacement therapy will turn a LT into a CB and vice versa.

Indeed, and Benton mentioned this, and I brought it up as well, there are just a lot of variables at play.

[StLucieBengal]

(06-08-2016, 08:43 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Indeed, and Benton mentioned this, and I brought it up as well, there are just a lot of variables at play.

The +20% increase in suicide should also be considered.  Should we be using this radical treatment on children?   

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(06-08-2016, 08:45 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: The +20% increase in suicide should also be considered.  Should we be using this radical treatment on children?   

I think a true Libertarian would leave those decisions to the parents and the children involved and probably wouldn't care one way or another. Personal liberty and all. Maybe that is why they are called Libertarians?

[BigPapaKain]

(06-08-2016, 08:45 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: The +20% increase in suicide should also be considered.  Should we be using this radical treatment on children?   

One has to wonder if the hike in suicide attempts is a true side effect of the therapy or the sudden realization that the majority of the first world populace hates them for not being painted in simple black and white.

[Belsnickel]

(06-08-2016, 09:40 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: One has to wonder if the hike in suicide attempts is a true side effect of the therapy or the sudden realization that the majority of the first world populace hates them for not being painted in simple black and white.

The ol' correlation v. causation question...

[StLucieBengal]

(06-08-2016, 09:33 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I think a true Libertarian would leave those decisions to the parents and the children involved and probably wouldn't care one way or another. Personal liberty and all. Maybe that is why they are called Libertarians?

Should doctors push for this radical hormone treatment?  Or be more cautious and tell parents to hold off until after puberty?  

[StLucieBengal]

(06-08-2016, 09:40 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: One has to wonder if the hike in suicide attempts is a true side effect of the therapy or the sudden realization that the majority of the first world populace hates them for not being painted in simple black and white.

Considering most of these people go back to normal after puberty.   The very small minority that's left can explore whatever treatment they wish.   However it is safer to wait until after puberty before starting these hormone treatments. 

[fredtoast]

(06-08-2016, 08:45 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: The +20% increase in suicide should also be considered.  Should we be using this radical treatment on children?   

There is no 20% increase in suicide rates.

[Benton]

(06-08-2016, 10:55 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Should doctors push for this radical hormone treatment?  Or be more cautious and tell parents to hold off until after puberty?  

Doctors shouldn't push for any treatment.

They should provide all the information so the patient can make an informed decision.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(06-08-2016, 10:55 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Should doctors push for this radical hormone treatment?  Or be more cautious and tell parents to hold off until after puberty?  

You haven't spoken to a single doctor to determine how they have counseled a single patient on this topic.  Again, I don't understand how a Liberterian would care about how doctors counsel someone else or what recommendations they might make to someone else.

(06-08-2016, 10:57 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Considering most of these people go back to normal after puberty.   The very small minority that's left can explore whatever treatment they wish.   However it is safer to wait until after puberty before starting these hormone treatments. 

How many studies have been conducted of prepubescent children to determine if they are transgender IOT determine "most" of them go back to normal after puberty?  I'm guessing none.

[Vas Deferens]

(06-08-2016, 11:34 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: You haven't spoken to a single doctor to determine how they have counseled a single patient on this topic.  Again, I don't understand how a Liberterian would care about how doctors counsel someone else or what recommendations they might make to someone else.



How many studies have been conducted of prepubescent children to determine if they are transgender IOT determine "most" of them go back to normal after puberty?  I'm guessing none.

Don't single out people with pure hatred in their heart like they single out others.  It makes them very uncomfortable.