So with the scouting department sizes listed is there drafting efficiency numbers?

Edit: Football Outsiders did a a draft effenicy chart and put the Bengals at 22nd from 2010 to 2019.
Steelers are 4th, Ravens 6th, and the Browns 31st.
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2020/nfl-drafting-efficiency-2010-2019

Wes, didn't you know we're a team that builds through the draft? But somehow we don't actually invest in the scouting department necessary to do justice to that statement. Apparently all it takes to build through the draft is to subscribe to the same " scouting services" as all other teams in the league. Having your home grown well built scouting staff is for suckers who don't know how to pocket a GM bonus from the work done by "scouting services" and coaches.

Model model and all that. Except when it comes to investing in the scouting department like the aforementioned model. Then, it's "what model, we have access to all the same scouting services as everybody else." Honestly, the whole "building through the draft" statement just seems like a deflection away from cheapness in FA.

WTS, at least they've been opening their wallets in FA the last couple years, so perhaps they see just how lacking they are in their drafting and scouting. Maybe they'll slowly start upgrading the football side of the business in the next few years. We'll see.

(05-11-2021, 02:52 PM)masterpanthera_t Wrote: Wes,  didn't you know we're a team that builds through the draft? But somehow we don't actually invest in the scouting department necessary to do justice to that statement. Apparently all it takes to build through the draft is to subscribe to the same " scouting services" as all other teams in the league. Having your home grown well built scouting staff is for suckers who don't know how to pocket a GM bonus from the work done by "scouting services" and coaches.

Model model and all that. Except when it comes to investing in the scouting department like the aforementioned model. Then,  it's "what model, we have access to all the same scouting services as everybody else." Honestly,  the whole "building through the draft" statement just seems like a deflection.

WTS, at least they've been opening their wallets in FA the last couple years,  so perhaps they see just how lacking they are in their drafting and scouting. Maybe they'll slowly start upgrading the football side of the business in the next few years.  We'll see.

Problem is they can only keep spending money like they did this off season for 2 more seasons then JoeyB gets his big pay day and say good bye to a lot of the spare money for free agency.  

It'll take a lot for this team to ever change the operations side of the business.  Mikey boy was ridden hard by the local and national media back in the 90's and early 2000's for having such a small front office and he said exactly what you said above "they have access to everything every one else does".  

(05-11-2021, 01:26 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: If you wondering what in the hell this thread is supposed to mean then that's probably understandable.  The point of this thead is simple; sometimes seeing is better than hearing.

This really puts into perspective just how much less this franchise invests into the quality of their team.

But we have cool new uniforms and a witty social media team! 

(05-11-2021, 02:56 PM)TJ528 Wrote: Problem is they can only keep spending money like they did this off season for 2 more seasons then JoeyB gets his big pay day and say good bye to a lot of the spare money for free agency.  

It'll take a lot for this team to ever change the operations side of the business.  Mikey boy was ridden hard by the local and national media back in the 90's and early 2000's for having such a small front office and he said exactly what you said above "they have access to everything every one else does".  

You never know. Mike's in his mid eighties now., and the stadium lease is up in five years. Perhaps, they'll upgrade the football side of the business as a way of building some good faith ahead of the negotiations. Or maybe they'll just to do it anyway now that it may not be as much of an ego issue for KB and Troy as it seemingly has been for Mike. Seeing how they've spent in the FA, is obvious some things have changed in a big way. Maybe the personnel department is the next area. I don't necessarily believe it, more just hoping it's the case.

(05-11-2021, 03:01 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: But we have cool new uniforms and a witty social media team! 

Don't forget the free hot dogs for the Canopy Crazy's!!!

(05-11-2021, 01:26 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: If you wondering what in the hell this thread is supposed to mean then that's probably understandable.  The point of this thead is simple; sometimes seeing is better than hearing.

This really puts into perspective just how much less this franchise invests into the quality of their team.

Browns are good proof the size of the Front Office doesnt always mean much

(05-11-2021, 03:09 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Browns are good proof the size of the Front Office doesnt always mean much

Xeno, the Browns front office now has competent people in place.    

I can't stand the Browns but whoever is currently in charge of that operation up there is killing it.

Whoever is in charge in Baltimore and Pittsburgh always kill it.  

Hell I can't tell you the last time the Stoolers had a losing season.  

The Ravens always seem to be in the running for the AFC North.  

The Bengal's were in that mix for 12 years and then the last 5 years happened. 

Still. This is striking, and sobering.

(05-11-2021, 03:25 PM)TJ528 Wrote: Xeno, the Browns front office now has competent people in place.    

I can't stand the Browns but whoever is currently in charge of that operation up there is killing it.

Whoever is in charge in Baltimore and Pittsburgh always kill it.  

Hell I can't tell you the last time the Stoolers had a losing season.  

The Ravens always seem to be in the running for the AFC North.  

The Bengal's were in that mix for 12 years and then the last 5 years happened. 

Now.. but it was always this sizish for the last 2 decades of the factory of sadness too.. (we talking size not quality of those within)

Like everyone that screams for GMs every year it just is what it is.      there is just as many teams with GMs that have losing seasons as winning ones

This just further drives the point home of how poorly ran this team has been. You can say what you want about the Browns or try and make it sound like it's not that bad, but 192-284-4 while also being winless in the playoffs speaks for itself. EVERY team has won a playoff game since the last time the Bengals have. Obviously Mike Brown's way doesn't work, but he doesn't seem too concerned with changing it. He brings in a loser coach and opens up his wallet in free agency and this team still goes 6-25-1. Maybe more of the problem is with the front office or lack thereof than anything else. I fully expect the change in free agency to be used against fans wanting change as showing that it also doesn't work.

I was ready for Marvin to be gone as much as the next guy, but we really should build a statue of him outside the stadium. Marvin was 131-122-3 and has the only playoff appearances under owner/GM Mike Brown. Marvin Lewis coached 68% of the wins in the Mike Brown era. In 16 years he won 131 while the other 14 years of Mike's brilliance only brought 61 wins (an average of 4.3 wins per season).

With the exception of Marvin Lewis, everything Mike Brown, his family, and friends do is wrong. They really should learn from the rest of the league if they really want to make fans believe they care about winning more than lining their pockets.

(05-11-2021, 01:52 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: No, I don't think there's one even remotely close.

You sure about that Wes? Here's the Patriots 2020 war room during the draft...

(05-11-2021, 04:19 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: This just further drives the point home of how poorly ran this team has been. You can say what you want about the Browns or try and make it sound like it's not that bad, but 192-284-4 while also being winless in the playoffs speaks for itself. EVERY team has won a playoff game since the last time the Bengals have. Obviously Mike Brown's way doesn't work, but he doesn't seem too concerned with changing it. He brings in a loser coach and opens up his wallet in free agency and this team still goes 6-25-1. Maybe more of the problem is with the front office or lack thereof than anything else. I fully expect the change in free agency to be used against fans wanting change as showing that it also doesn't work.

I was ready for Marvin to be gone as much as the next guy, but we really should build a statue of him outside the stadium. Marvin was 131-122-3 and has the only playoff appearances under owner/GM Mike Brown. Marvin Lewis coached 68% of the wins in the Mike Brown era. In 16 years he won 131 while the other 14 years of Mike's brilliance only brought 61 wins (an average of 4.3 wins per season).

With the exception of Marvin Lewis, everything Mike Brown, his family, and friends do is wrong. They really should learn from the rest of the league if they really want to make fans believe they care about winning more than lining their pockets.

Yep

If a writer would write a book about MB's entire career here as owner/GM and title it Joe Blow's football team. Change all the player/coaches names and so on. No publisher would take it ! They'd say it will never sell. Nobody is gonna believe there's an owner out there that incompetent. 

(05-11-2021, 01:26 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: If you wondering what in the hell this thread is supposed to mean then that's probably understandable. The point of this thead is simple; sometimes seeing is better than hearing.

This really puts into perspective just how much less this franchise invests into the quality of their team.

Yeah, yeah, but we have The Mel Kuyper...

https://youtu.be/a2kGUlIaKdw

(05-11-2021, 02:45 PM)Synric Wrote: So with the scouting department sizes listed is there drafting efficiency numbers?

Edit: Football Outsiders did a a draft effenicy chart and put the Bengals at 22nd from 2010 to 2019.
Steelers are 4th, Ravens 6th, and the Browns 31st.
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2020/nfl-drafting-efficiency-2010-2019

To be fair, the Browns are on their 3rd, and easily best front office. They’re doing quite well now.

(05-11-2021, 06:07 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: You sure about that Wes? Here's the Patriots 2020 war room during the draft...

And that team with a dog drafting and Cam Newton at QB had more wins. 

That is even more sad. 

(05-11-2021, 10:11 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote: Yeah, yeah, but we have The Mel Kuyper...

https://youtu.be/a2kGUlIaKdw

“Who the hell is Mel Kiper?”

-Bill Tobin, Duke Tobin’s dad and current Bengals’ personnel executive, butt hurt over criticism for drafting Trev “Who?” Alberts fifth overall during the 1994 draft

(05-11-2021, 02:52 PM)masterpanthera_t Wrote: Wes, didn't you know we're a team that builds through the draft? But somehow we don't actually invest in the scouting department necessary to do justice to that statement. Apparently all it takes to build through the draft is to subscribe to the same " scouting services" as all other teams in the league. Having your home grown well built scouting staff is for suckers who don't know how to pocket a GM bonus from the work done by "scouting services" and coaches.

Model model and all that. Except when it comes to investing in the scouting department like the aforementioned model. Then, it's "what model, we have access to all the same scouting services as everybody else." Honestly, the whole "building through the draft" statement just seems like a deflection away from cheapness in FA.

WTS, at least they've been opening their wallets in FA the last couple years, so perhaps they see just how lacking they are in their drafting and scouting. Maybe they'll slowly start upgrading the football side of the business in the next few years. We'll see.

This is the point that has always laid bare Mike’s bullshit. Scouts are cheap. Professing to be a draft building team only works when you hit on draft picks. It stands to reason that you’d have a robust scouting and personnel department to maximize the chances of finding late round difference makers. Invest several million into scouting salaries instead of a huge FA contract. Instead the Bengals have a smaller scouting staff than most D-1 college teams. Hell, Ohio University has almost as many scouts as an NFL Team https://www.ohiobobcats.com/information/directory/home

The Bengals’ primary strategy is to maintain comfortable annual profits and enrich Mike and his kids. Winning has always been secondary. Their business model, threadbare front office, and miserly facility spending make this obvious.

I dont care how many they have as long as they get it done. Obviously the lack of playoff wins is not getting it done. But on a bright side after 2 good looking drafts and active free agency years, we could be a very good team in the near future. It all hinges on ZT and Lou panning out and Burrow truly getting back to 100%. Burrow can take us to the promise land if we dont ruin his career first. He's a SB level QB. Just hope he comes back full force.

(05-11-2021, 10:32 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote: This is the point that has always laid bare Mike’s bullshit. Scouts are cheap. Professing to be a draft building team only works when you hit on draft picks. It stands to reason that you’d have a robust scouting and personnel department to maximize the chances of finding late round difference makers. Invest several million into scouting salaries instead of a huge FA contract. Instead the Bengals have a smaller scouting staff than most D-1 college teams. Hell, Ohio University has almost as many scouts as an NFL Team https://www.ohiobobcats.com/information/directory/home

The Bengals’ primary strategy is to maintain comfortable annual profits and enrich Mike and his kids. Winning has always been secondary. Their business model, threadbare front office, and miserly facility spending make this obvious.

At this point I have to believe it's an issue of ego with Mike because honestly the scouting investment is not that expensive in the bigger scheme of things. Let's how that this is not also a consideration with KB.