I agree holding in / out / in again when the team approached you for an extension that you hadn't requested seems......... Well, that's not the greatest show of character.

(09-06-2024, 03:47 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: I'm 1 of Chase's biggest supporters but the impression I get is Chase doesn't feel comfortable practicing during contract negotiations which is not a team friendly negotiating tactic. If I were the Bengals I would just sign him to long term contract and until that current 1 expires not even approach him again. He is saying if Bengals would have never discussed extension in the first place everything would be fine I find that a little hard to believe.

Some agents are like some lawyers. Scum suckers. They literally lie to their clients about what the front office is offering or saying. They do that to get them to not be accommodating and too team friendly. They do a number on the players. They portray that the the front office and ownership don’t give two craps about you. They tell them horror stories and scare the hell out of them. They tell them ownership is worth billions etc. There are few legit agents. 

(09-06-2024, 02:48 PM)Synric Wrote: Well that puts a different perspective on the contract situations.

Ja'Marr Chase's opening statement today:
"I did not ask for a contract or demand a contract this year."

Says the front office approached him about getting a deal done in the offseason, before training camp.#Bengals | @WLWT

— Olivia Ray (@OliviaRayTV) September 6, 2024

Thank you for posting this. 

The question is when exactly "before training camp" was he approached? 

Was it before/during the May 15 - May 30 timeline (Smith and Waddle signed their extensions on the 15th and 30th), or after June 3rd when Jefferson signed his?

If it was prior to Jefferson's signing, I could see the Bengals offering him a $30M AAV; given that Smith and Waddle signed after their 3rd year. It would have been higher than Smith and Waddle and compares directly to the years accrued on a rookie contract.

I do recall reading that Chase wanted to wait for Jefferson's contract to be finalized. Now Jefferson has set a standard for top tier WRs. In his case, after 4 years on their rookie contracts. 

If Chase with only three years accrued, wants a comparable contract to Jefferson; especially signing bonus/roster bonus/guaranteed dollars in the first two years - that may be difficult for the Bengals to justify. 

The difference could be ~ $27M guaranteed for two years as it currently stands vs. ~ $70M guaranteed in the first two years on the extension. 

Ultimately; if Chase is not moving and nor are the Bengals, then it may be best to stop negotiations and re-start after the season.   

But his opening comment does raise an important question. If he did not ask or demand an extension, why is he holding in/out? Is he concerned that this is headed in a similar path to the Higgins situation?

Lets hope that we get good news by tonight/tomorrow.

 

(09-06-2024, 03:10 PM)Au165 Wrote: Yea, he said a lot of really weird and contradictory things in that media scrum. That one didn't make much sense to me either. If you weren't demanding it then why when it didn't go your way did you hold out? Just weird.

Admittedly, I've been anti-Ja'Marr in this situation, but that makes no-sense. Is he saying the team approached him about an extension he didn't demand/ask for, because I've been told in this very thread teams don't do that (It was pages ago when talking about Mahomes.)?

If he didn't have contract demands then WTH did he sit out? Was he really just "listening to his body?" 

(09-06-2024, 10:38 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Just because YOU say he hasn't been as good as Jefferson (and, for the record, I don't disagree) that doesn't mean that Chase views himself as being lesser than Jefferson.

"Lesser" sounds pretty harsh. They're both phenomenal. I just don't see the evidence that Ja'marr Chase is the top dog, irrefutablly best receiver in the NFL right now. He can think what he wants of himself and his value. It doesn't matter unless the Bengals offer it or he gets to free agency and one of the 31 other teams offers it. If he's literally asking for the moon the Bengals are within their rights to have him play out his contract and then use the tag. Anyone doesn't like it? They don't have to play under the NFL CBA. They can play in the CFL. They can start their own business. No one has to sign up for an imperfect compensation process if they don't want to. The Bengals spent their draft capital fair and square. Don't like the rules? Don't agree to them or lobby the player's union to have them changed. 

(09-06-2024, 11:07 AM)Whatever Wrote: Well, the big difference is new money AAV vs real AAV.

If he gets the same extension as JJ, except one penny more, the new money AAV will be greater, but the real AAV will be less because he has two years left on his rookie deal vs one.  

I thought it was obvious that it'd be new money. You can't just ignore one year of a rookie contract and pretend that it doesn't exist. 

(09-06-2024, 04:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Admittedly, I've been anti-Ja'Marr in this situation, but that makes no-sense. Is he saying the team approached him about an extension he didn't demand/ask for, because I've been told in this very thread teams don't do that (It was pages ago when talking about Mahomes.)?

If he didn't have contract demands then WTH did he sit out? Was he really just "listening to his body?" 

It was odd to hear. Alot of interesting things were said to dissect. He said they've been going back and forth for 6-7 months. Then asked how Mike Brown said they would bend over backwards and he was 2nd in priority after Burrow if he felt that from they're contract offers and he laughed and said he felt that way now. So maybe the contract was brought up by the Bengals originally but was not really in the ballpark of what other WR are getting? Then I could see a hold in taking place trying to get them to raise said #s. He said other contradicting statements as far as willing to play the season without a contract but still calling it a game time decision this week. Not sure how to take it all. But Chase has always been brutally honest with his takes it seems so no reason to doubt him here.

(09-06-2024, 06:02 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: It was odd to hear. Alot of interesting things were said to dissect. He said they've been going back and forth for 6-7 months. Then asked how Mike Brown said they would bend over backwards and he was 2nd in priority after Burrow if he felt that from they're contract offers and he laughed and said he felt that way now. So maybe the contract was brought up by the Bengals originally but was not really in the ballpark of what other WR are getting? Then I could see a hold in taking place trying to get them to raise said #s. He said other contradicting statements as far as willing to play the season without a contract but still calling it a game time decision this week. Not sure how to take it all. But Chase has always been brutally honest with his takes it seems so no reason to doubt him here.

That's how negotiation works, both sides start far apart and then work their way toward an agreement that suits both parties.

(09-06-2024, 02:40 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Go fishing Gramps 2.0

I live in Montana, have for over 40 years. The chances of enjoying fly fishing like I used to is gone, thanks to all the hordes of transplants. Still kinda weird Trae Wayne's is my "next door" neighbor. 

Yea, I  fully understand the "listening to his body" thought. I've been listening to my old body for the last several days and I don't like what I'm hearing... Took me about 15 minutes this morning to roll out of bed, take a leak and make it down stairs to turn on the coffee pot. Yanked my back out somehow and it feels like an electric shock at times.

(09-06-2024, 06:02 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: It was odd to hear. Alot of interesting things were said to dissect. He said they've been going back and forth for 6-7 months. Then asked how Mike Brown said they would bend over backwards and he was 2nd in priority after Burrow if he felt that from they're contract offers and he laughed and said he felt that way now. So maybe the contract was brought up by the Bengals originally but was not really in the ballpark of what other WR are getting? Then I could see a hold in taking place trying to get them to raise said #s. He said other contradicting statements as far as willing to play the season without a contract but still calling it a game time decision this week. Not sure how to take it all. But Chase has always been brutally honest with his takes it seems so no reason to doubt him here.

I haven't heard/listened to the presser but it seems like an obvious follow-up:

Ja"Marr: "L didn't ask for or demand a contract this off-season, the club approached me about getting a deal done"

Q1: "Well why didn't you do anything with the team until 4 days before kickoff?"

I'm glad to see him practicing and hope the dude puts up such numbers this year that paying him next off-season costs the Bengals big time. But that quote just seems weird. 
Some have indicated the words allow you to change your perspective, I'm just curious as to how. 

(09-06-2024, 06:13 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That's how negotiation works, both sides start far apart and then work their way toward an agreement that suits both parties.

Exactly and if you listen to the comments Chase was making last year it seemed he was the one willing to take a little less on an extension to keep everyone together.  Maybe the Bengals heard that and offered him a little less thinking they still might be able to re-sign Tee as well.  In any event, you dont pout and act like a baby because you didnt like their first offer.  You give them your counter offer and keep doing what you always have been doing.  Sitting out and not practicing because you dont like an extension offer when you still have 2 years left on your current contract and didnt even ask for the offer in the first place, shows real immaturity.  

(09-06-2024, 06:13 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That's how negotiation works, both sides start far apart and then work their way toward an agreement that suits both parties.

Okay I'm just speculating how the team approached him then go to a hold in as in they got the ball rolling but didn't want to come with a serious offer.

(09-06-2024, 07:03 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Exactly and if you listen to the comments Chase was making last year it seemed he was the one willing to take a little less on an extension to keep everyone together.  Maybe the Bengals heard that and offered him a little less thinking they still might be able to re-sign Tee as well.  In any event, you dont pout and act like a baby because you didnt like their first offer.  You give them your counter offer and keep doing what you always have been doing.  Sitting out and not practicing because you dont like an extension offer when you still have 2 years left on your current contract and didnt even ask for the offer in the first place, shows real immaturity.  

(09-06-2024, 07:05 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Okay I'm just speculating how the team approached him then go to a hold in as in they got the ball rolling but didn't want to come with a serious offer.

I'm going to speculate that the coldness from the Chase camp likely began when the Bengals offered to guarantee the first year and signing bonus only.

(09-06-2024, 06:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I haven't heard/listened to the presser but it seems like an obvious follow-up:

Ja"Marr: "L didn't ask for or demand a contract this off-season, the club approached me about getting a deal done"

Q1: "Well why didn't you do anything with the team until 4 days before kickoff?"

I'm glad to see him practicing and hope the dude puts up such numbers this year that paying him next off-season costs the Bengals big time. But that quote just seems weird. 
Some have indicated the words allow you to change your perspective, I'm just curious as to how. 

I would say it's worth a listen. Another thing that came out of it is he seems to allude to the fact that he didn't make the "one penny more than Jefferson " comment. Makes you wonder who released that info other than his team. He said if he wanted to beat Jefferson he would "beat the shit out of him not by a penny".

(09-06-2024, 07:03 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Exactly and if you listen to the comments Chase was making last year it seemed he was the one willing to take a little less on an extension to keep everyone together.  Maybe the Bengals heard that and offered him a little less thinking they still might be able to re-sign Tee as well.  In any event, you dont pout and act like a baby because you didnt like their first offer.  You give them your counter offer and keep doing what you always have been doing.  Sitting out and not practicing because you dont like an extension offer when you still have 2 years left on your current contract and didnt even ask for the offer in the first place, shows real immaturity.  

We really don't know the whole situation. But if the Bengals just recently upped they're offer and he says they've been going back and forth for 6-7 months. Seems like the camp hold in is what got the ball rolling.

The more Chase speaks the more he sounds like a diva, hope Irwin and Iosivas have great games while Chase sits out.

Yeah he’s not doing himself any favours that’s for sure. I get it WR’s are prone to the diva syndrome for whatever reason that may be.
It is a business though, a big business and people want to look after themselves.

This is just pure Bengals Football. This franchise is cursed and you’ll never convince me otherwise.

Prepare for another season full of frustration and letdown.

This just beats all - seriously. Our mgmt approaches CHASE about an early extension and that motivates HIM to hold in/hold out/left foot in/right foot out/hold in/hold out/shake it all about

Can’t write these scripts. Too ridiculous for Hollywood.

I'm gradually shifting away from being in Chase's corner here. If the team initiated and he was ready to play on the rookie deal, then what's the change? He know's he'll get paid regardless.

I'd hate to think that he and Tee are coordinating to sabotage the team over contracts, but the timing sucks. If they lose Sunday due to contract antics, fans will turn on both players quickly. Cincinnati is quite good at that.

If they win and Burrow dominates with jizmopper receivers, then all kinds of questions start swirling.

Meanwhile, KC just found a guy that looks like a legit beast with the last pick of round 1, who happens to be the 7th pass catcher taken this year.

Kind of makes it tougher to shell out top money to a guy that may or may not play when real games start happening. Maybe it will be helpful to the franchise to see what an elite qb can do without elite weapons and an experienced, improved OL.

This team sucks at trench drafting. Out Loud. They're lights out with early round receivers.

If Chase doesn't sign before Sunday, then re-toooling 9's arsenal for phase 2 of the Burrow era becomes a real possibility. Might even be the smart thing to do.

(09-06-2024, 08:16 PM)samhain Wrote: I'm gradually shifting away from being in Chase's corner here. If the team initiated and he was ready to play on the rookie deal, then what's the change? He know's he'll get paid regardless.

I'd hate to think that he and Tee are coordinating to sabotage the team over contracts, but the timing sucks. If they lose Sunday due to contract antics, fans will turn on both players quickly. Cincinnati is quite good at that.

If they win and Burrow dominates with jizmopper receivers, then all kinds of questions start swirling.

Meanwhile, KC just found a guy that looks like a legit beast with the last pick of round 1, who happens to be the 7th pass catcher taken this year.

Kind of makes it tougher to shell out top money to a guy that may or may not play when real games start happening. Maybe it will be helpful to the franchise to see what an elite qb can do without elite weapons and an experienced, improved OL.

This team sucks at trench drafting. Out Loud. They're lights out with early round receivers.

If Chase doesn't sign before Sunday, then re-toooling 9's arsenal for phase 2 of the Burrow era becomes a real possibility. Might even be the smart thing to do.

Burton looked like a stud. Yoshi drafted late. Irwin off the street.

I’d rather have great lines and a great defense to support Burrow than insanely expensive WRs. And we are usually pretty good at finding WR talent.