(10-29-2020, 04:47 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: If Zac were just the OC, I wouldn't really have any problem with him this year, as the offense has looked better overall, even with the o-line issues and subpar running game. However, he's also the HC...and after 23 games, he just doesn't look qualified to be one, IMO. I've tried being patient when it comes to judging him, but the records on the road, in one score games and when scoring first are just so incredibly bad that there's no way to not place it at the head coaches feet. I honestly believe he's just really in over his head and has more on his plate than he's capable of handling at this point.

(10-29-2020, 04:57 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: In fairness though, it's been an epically bad season and a half. Under Zac, they have been literally the worst in the NFL - record wise - in just about every situation/scenario. At some point he needs to produce some actual wins, instead of finding new ways to lose.

(10-29-2020, 05:06 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: My takeaway from all this: Carlos needed to be shown the door, Lou should've been right behind him...and Mike Brown still sucks.

Completely agree with everything you say here Holic, great posts.

(10-29-2020, 04:50 PM)Tony Wrote: They deserved that money back..

They certainly deserved whatever they paid him this year. He phoned it in.

(10-29-2020, 05:02 PM)GodFather Wrote: I think what is telling is how alot of the offensive players are coming to Zac's defense when attacked and stand by him and on the defense side , mum seems to be the word. The silence from defensive players speaks volumes about Lou...

Excellent point....very true 

Just wanted to say hi.

(10-29-2020, 05:06 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: My takeaway from all this: Carlos needed to be shown the door, Lou should've been right behind him...and Mike Brown still sucks.

A-freaking-men

(10-29-2020, 07:22 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: Just wanted to say hi.

Son....I acknowledged you in my first post in the thread!

(10-29-2020, 07:20 PM)Wyche Wrote: Excellent point....very true 

It is an excellent point... I am willing to give Zac a little more time with the way AJ and the bunch came to his defense.

With Lou, nah sir. Let the door hit yah!

(10-29-2020, 05:33 PM)jj22 Wrote: So vets want to have a say in the defense they couldn't fix long before Lou got here?

And how does any of this make Dunlap look better given what all he posted and said on Instagram? The coaches didn't force him to do that. Sounds like he made them right all along.

Besides, reports from personnel people across the league say his play was p poor this year, and he lacked effort.

If you want to prove people wrong (coaches), that isn't how you do it. All he did was prove them right and the FO incompetent (which we already said they were for the halfass rebuild that has set the rebuild back 4 years).

I side with Lou and Zac. They should have control over which Marvin guys to have traded/released etc. These complaints are coming from Marvin guys who would have been long gone when any other new regime came to town. It's not like Zac took over a 14-2 team. They've been bad on D for a long time. Lou isn't the common denominator. They are. FO still only reacts and aren't proactive. Their inability to be proactive is why this franchise (and Burrow) are doomed, and likely won't be competitive for the next decade or so.

Ya know....I hadn't considered that. They got Austin AND Marvin fired/beat down when you really look at it. They have sucked for 4 years. Good point jj... I'd like to see anyone rebuke this.

(10-29-2020, 05:37 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Fine by me, but I can't guarantee ZT and Lou are going to be part of a team that wins 10+ games and wins a playoff game.  I haven't seen anything to make me think they can, but Burrow could drag anyone all the way, I guess.

Have you watched LSU this year? LOL.

(10-29-2020, 07:31 PM)Wyche Wrote: Have you watched LSU this year? LOL.

No, is Jamarcuss Russell still their QB?

(10-29-2020, 07:27 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Ya know....I hadn't considered that. They got Austin AND Marvin fired/beat down when you really look at it. They have sucked for 4 years. Good point jj... I'd like to see anyone rebuke this.

I agree some defensive players helped Austin and Marv get fired, but it wasn’t Dunlap, Atkins or Williams. It was Preston Brown, The DT’s that couldn’t stay healthy next to Atkins, Vigil, Kirkpatrick, etc. I’m no Marv fan after 2015, but I bet he would have loved if the team brought in $60 million in new players for him on defense. He got draft picks and linebackers on one year deals way past their prime. Now, it’s entirely possible that’s what Marv asked for and in that case he got himself fired.

(10-29-2020, 07:34 PM)Nately120 Wrote: No, is Jamarcuss Russell still their QB?

LMAO, might as well be.... they're not even ranked one season removed from perfection. Maybe Joe CAN carry our sorry asses was the point....

(10-29-2020, 05:51 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I didn't quite follow that part of the story.

They said they had an offer in place to ship him to the Lions, but Carlos didn't want to go there.  Well, who cares what he wants?  This guy is going to demand to be let go or traded, to the point of putting his house up for sale on Twitter, and he gets to pick where he ends up?

F' that.  You send him wherever you get the best return.  We're not running the Make a Wish Foundation here.

On the 5 mil... I could be wrong, but I think Carlos offered to forfeit the remaining 5 mil if he were released, which lines up with what he had left on his deal last week.  It was fully guaranteed, so he would have gotten paid regardless of whether or not he was here.  So I think he was just forfeiting his guarantees to facilitate a release.

Now, if he paid them 5 mil to be traded?  I don't even know if that's allowed.  His remaining base salary is now off the books, and transfers to Seattle.  He'd essentially be giving back base earnings from weeks 1-7.  If he did do that, we definitely don't get that cap space back.  And I would think the league would frown upon owners take cash payments from players to get rid of them.  It's almost like extortion on our part.

This whole thing is just absolutely nuts.  Only with this team and family do fans spend their time speculating such wild things.

The “what he wants” goes back to mutual respect and loyalty between MB and Dunlap. Those things are two way streets. The problem with MB is he doesn’t know when to let go. If a player you love and respect asks you for a change of scenery, then work with them for the benefit of all parties involved. If he had done that Dunlap wouldn’t have resorted to the nuclear option to get out of town. I can see why he wouldn’t want to go to Detroit, they run the same hybrid 3-4 Lou does.

(10-29-2020, 07:43 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: LMAO, might as well be.... they're not even ranked one season removed from perfection. Maybe Joe CAN carry our sorry asses was the point....

Joe Brady?

But seriously. Fire Zac and hire Brady. He already has a resume that blows Zac’s out of the water.

(10-29-2020, 07:42 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: I agree some defensive players helped Austin and Marv get fired, but it wasn’t Dunlap, Atkins or Williams. It was Preston Brown, The DT’s that couldn’t stay healthy next to Atkins, Vigil, Kirkpatrick, etc.  I’m no Marv fan after 2015, but I bet he would have loved if the team brought in $60 million in new players for him on defense. He got draft picks and linebackers on one year deals way past their prime. Now, it’s entirely possible that’s what Marv asked for and in that case he got himself fired.

You know he would have. Dunlap had lapses, Geno had stretches where he disappeared, but then again...Geno is hurt, and is not disgruntled. I've never been much on Williams, TBH. He's had flashes, but inconsistent. 

I guess the point was, 2018s defense was breaking records until 2019s unit showed up, and those guys were a part of that. Hell, Marvin had to take over, and even then, they struggled....and Marvin was always known for defense.

Remember why Carlos Dunlap fell to the 2nd round?

(10-29-2020, 07:51 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: You know he would have. Dunlap had lapses, Geno had stretches where he disappeared, but then again...Geno is hurt, and is not disgruntled. I've never been much on Williams, TBH. He's had flashes, but inconsistent. 

I guess the point was, 2018s defense was breaking records until 2019s unit showed up, and those guys were a part of that. Hell, Marvin had to take over, and even then, they struggled....and Marvin was always known for defense.

Remember why Carlos Dunlap fell to the 2nd round?

I do, but for a guy that take plays off, being the all-time franchise sack leader* turned out pretty good.

(10-29-2020, 05:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No new coach cuts every single player.  They all keep the good and get rid of the bad.  Dunlap averaged 9 sacks and 25 QB hits over the previous 7 seasons.  there is not a coach in the league who would dump a player like that.  Those are the guys you build around.

This is utter nonsense. New regimes trade away good players who won't be part of the rebuild all the time and they don't rebuild around 31 year old DEs on the decline.

Taylor has been hamstrung by the Front Office's unwillingness to move on from 2015. Players like Eifert, Dalton, Billings, Glenn and maybe if not for injury Green and Dennard should have been traded away by the trade deadline last year and then Dunlap in the close season (or earlier if there was demand before the last trade window). The failure to do so and gain the necessary draft capital has extended the rebuild by at least a year.

Barring a defensive juggernaut performance against Tennessee, I think Lou gets his walking papers during the bye week. Duffner and Golden can work together for the rest of the season. After that, find a competent DC at minimum.

Wow, they’ve actually become more dysfunctional. Coaches don’t communicate with the players. Front office doesn’t listen to the coaches. Coaches deliberately sabotage the players and the team to get the front office to do what they want. What a shit show.

(10-29-2020, 07:12 PM)Wyche Wrote: Well..... wouldn't running a hybrid and having special packages for 97 and 96 be making an adjustment to his system? One is playing all he can due to his injury, the other sulked and pouted.

Look, I'm not standing up for Anarumo at all, and I'm not trying to shit on Los. The fact is, if the damn turds in the FO would have listened to the staff and Los, ALL of this could have been avoided. Trade the guy, make him happy and do right by one of your all time greats, and get players that fit what you're trying to build.

Initially, I was a little miffed at Los for appearing childish. I should have known better. It wasn't him, it wasn't Lou, it was that 80 plus year old ***** baby behind all of this. Talk about a moron! Mikey trump's them all!!!! LOL.

I agree with you 90 percent of the time on most things Bengal related.  In this case, not so much.

To the first point, I don't hire a DC that makes adjustments to toss in special packages for 2 guys making a combined 25 million per year.  They are part of the base defense and to some extent dictate what you run, if you're smart anyway.  

I blame the FO for that much.

Other than that, I lay the blame on the staff.  

Zac gets the most.  Whatever happened when they interviewed DC candidates for that excruciating stretch that ended with Lou was a slow-motion abortion.  Why didn't anyone want to be his DC?  Why did we end up with some guy that has never had that title before?  Was it Zac's ego and him not wanting to deal with a respected vet DC possibly detracting from his locker-room authority?  I have no idea, but it was no good at all and will need to be rectified sooner than later.  

IMO this staff has less than zero to complain about in terms of the Brown family, and lord knows I've never been a defender of that bunch.  They backed up a damn Brink's truck to help Lou's incompetent ass build the kind of defense he wanted.  They then gave him 2 new linebackers immediately after getting Burrow and Higgins.  They spent heavily in every tier of free agency all the way through camp.  Marvin Lewis wishes that they gave him that kind of juice even once in his time here, and Zac and his crew got it in year 1.  Zac also got to gut the staff in ways we've never seen here.  

I'm not on board with canning Zac yet.  His play calling seems to be maturing gradually.  The offense shows signs of being great in the near future.  That said, if anything, I think the family needs to exert some power when it comes to his pals on the staff.  These guys are the dregs of the league.  If Zacky Boy can't see that, then they need to save him from himself and show Lou the door along with Golden.  If Zac can't get on board, he can go, too.  I imagine any number of coaches old and young would love a shot at coaching Burrow over the next few years.