PFF Grades

[Bengalboy]

(09-12-2018, 08:58 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: No they don't.

They have regular schmoes that have a background in analytics, stats, etc., but they do NOT hire former pros.

some google research (about 30 seconds worth) would prove your statement incorrect. Im not going to waste mine or anyone else's time arguing about it. Some people just hate PFF and no matter how involved they get with all 32 NFL teams (and seemingly college teams now also) and NFL Media it wont change their mind.

[Hoofhearted]

(09-12-2018, 09:44 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I think PFF is a useful tool but it's no where near a know all and end all !

Like Racer said if Price hadn't got tripped on that 1st play everybody is probably raving about his game. Flashbacks to Blowdine

The Right side of the O-line is a concern and we knew that before the PFF grades came out.

Yeah, this. It's a nice to see if the analytics back up the eye test (or not). In a world of mountains and mountains of data, I don't see why we should dismiss it, even if it's something that doesn't pass the "eye test". We have replay systems that can barely tell if a ball hits a helmet or if a fumble certainly happened, but we can tell the exit velocity, distance, WAR, WRC, etc, etc. 

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(09-12-2018, 09:53 AM)Bengalboy Wrote: some google research (about 30 seconds worth) would prove your statement incorrect. Im not going to waste mine or anyone else's time arguing about it. Some people just hate PFF and no matter how involved they get with all 32 NFL teams (and seemingly college teams now also) and NFL Media it wont change their mind.

Hahaha.

Man, this guy really doesn't know who he's dealing with...

Dude, I applied to PFF after the 2012 season and got a second interview, plus I had to do training to see if I was good enough to even make it, thus I did their job for about 2 weeks (I pulled myself out of the running because it was too difficult to manage with full-time hours, full-time school and a girlfriend, plus the feed I was using, as I didn't have a PVR yet, was absolutely awful).

I don't hate PFF and I was the BIGGEST supporter of them, from their inception until the changed everything around in 2015; the amount of defending I needed to do for all 6 years was ridiculous.

I used to write summary threads on here after every game, with the top 5 on offense and defense, plus the bottom 5 on offense and defense, from 2010 until they changed to the new format in 2015.

So yeah, don't have a dismissive attitude when someone posts something to the contrary; just because, "a Google search," shows otherwise, doesn't mean its the truth.

And for further proof:

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-PFF-Faux-Season-1
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-PFF-3-Late
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-PFF-Preseason-Finale
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-PFF-1-The-Black-Gold
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-PFF-2-The-Perfect-Oline
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-PFF-3-Bmore-is-Becoming-Nomore

I miss Khaled.

[Bengalboy]

(09-12-2018, 11:20 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Hahaha.

Man, this guy really doesn't know who he's dealing with...

Dude, I applied to PFF after the 2012 season and got a second interview, plus I had to do training to see if I was good enough to even make it, thus I did their job for about 2 weeks (I pulled myself out of the running because it was too difficult to manage with full-time hours, full-time school and a girlfriend, plus the feed I was using, as I didn't have a PVR yet, was absolutely awful).

I don't hate PFF and I was the BIGGEST supporter of them, from their inception until the changed everything around in 2015; the amount of defending I needed to do for all 6 years was ridiculous.

I used to write summary threads on here after every game, with the top 5 on offense and defense, plus the bottom 5 on offense and defense, from 2010 until they changed to the new format in 2015.

So yeah, don't have a dismissive attitude when someone posts something to the contrary; just because, "a Google search," shows otherwise, doesn't mean its the truth.

And for further proof:

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-PFF-Faux-Season-1
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-PFF-3-Late
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-PFF-Preseason-Finale
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-PFF-1-The-Black-Gold
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-PFF-2-The-Perfect-Oline
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-PFF-3-Bmore-is-Becoming-Nomore

I miss Khaled.

I don't know your history, so i apologise if you feel i should know everything you have ever posted, im just responding to this one conversation, talking about this one point. Not that i think that should affect my reply to any post you or anyone else ever makes. RE PFF 2012 most of the hires of former NFL people have come in the last few years i believe from the one's ive heard and read about, actually 2015 on wards mostly which is interesting regarding your 2015 comments, again multiple sources would confirm this if you wish to go read.

I don't think i have said in any thread i believe PFF to be the be all and end all of anything. Just its their to reference and within its own bubble at the very least vs all the other players its useful. I myself watch games like anyone else and sometimes scratch my head with grades vs what you see. 

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(09-12-2018, 11:32 AM)Bengalboy Wrote: I don't know your history, so i apologise if you feel i should know everything you have ever posted, im just responding to this one conversation, talking about this one point. Not that i think that should affect my reply to any post you or anyone else ever makes. RE PFF 2012 most of the hires of former NFL people have come in the last few years i believe from the one's ive heard and read about, actually 2015 on wards mostly which is interesting regarding your 2015 comments, again multiple sources would confirm this if you wish to go read.

I don't think i have said in any thread i believe PFF to be the be all and end all of anything. Just its their to reference and within its own bubble at the very least vs all the other players its useful. I myself watch games like anyone else and sometimes scratch my head with grades vs what you see. 

I apologise if I came off as presumptuous, however before I ever get into a discussion with someone I've never dealt with before, I go through their entire post history and all that jazz, to see how to best frame the discussion/argument.

Guess I can't assume that everyone does that with me too; my mistake.

They have changed around their entire staff, however it is still the main people running the show; nobody, whose name appears, is a former coach or anything of that nature.

The point here is that you can't throw out labels saying that people, "hate this and will never change their opinion because they don't know anything," without knowing the full truth and story.

[Bengalboy]

(09-12-2018, 11:57 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I apologise if I came off as presumptuous, however before I ever get into a discussion with someone I've never dealt with before, I go through their entire post history and all that jazz, to see how to best frame the discussion/argument.

Guess I can't assume that everyone does that with me too; my mistake.

They have changed around their entire staff, however it is still the main people running the show; nobody, whose name appears, is a former coach or anything of that nature.

The point here is that you can't throw out labels saying that people, "hate this and will never change their opinion because they don't know anything," without knowing the full truth and story.

We can agree on something here. You obviously took it to heart that i was simply referring to yourself in the "some people hate pff" statement. It was a general throw it out there statement, wasn't actually aimed at you specifically, perhaps an error on my part in the way it was written. Anyway i guess with your history of PFF defending (as you have explained) i can understand why you might be quick to take it that way.

On a side note. I am interested in knowing why you feel so strongly about the old/new scoring system. If you care to explain i would be interested. Perhaps you have already explained elsewhere.

Oh ... and nope, i have no time or interested in reading everyone back story when i reply to them, i have a family and a job to keep me plenty busy enough. Plus sometimes people say things in the past that are just a heat of the moment, or flavour of the month.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-11-2018, 09:36 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: The top 5 PFF graded defenders are:
1. Clayton Fejdelem 91.7
2. Nick Vigil 85.2
3. Dre Kirkpatrick 84.5
4. Ryan Glasgow 80.6
5. Jessie Bates 79.1

Fej's grade was the third-best safety, fourth-best defensive back, and eighth-best defensive player.
Bates was ranked 9th among all safeties

Andy Dalton was ranked the highest offensive player with 79.9. He ranks sixth highest among quarterbacks.
Cling Boling ranked 3rd highest with a rating of 72.8. He was the only offensive lineman to not allow a pressure.

Now the bad/awful....

Alex Redmond had a rating of 56.5. He allowed five QB pressures.
Bobby Hart had a rating of 37.4. He also allowed five QB pressures.
Hart had the second worst rating of ANY offensive lineman this week.

When rushing to the left and right of Redmond, Bengals running backs totaled eight yards on five carries (1.6 YPC). Rushing everywhere else, Cincy running backs totaled 85 yards on 13 carries (6.54 YPC)

Thanks Wolf, i don't put much stock in PFF but i think for the most part they got it somewhat correct.

Especially with Hart and Fej, but Mixon was still our best player and i see they have him ranked lower than he should
be and Price lower than he should be. Redmond just needs to get better in pass protecting, which he should as he gets
more snaps. Happy hearing Glasgow had a good game, like this guy.

What was Billings grade i wonder?

[Bengalboy]

Billings Grade : Overall 60.9. run 65.6 pass 51.9

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-12-2018, 04:38 PM)Bengalboy Wrote: Billings Grade : Overall 60.9.    run 65.6 pass 51.9

Thanks man. Thought he was pretty good against the run.

He will only get better. Hope he gets him a Flacco sack tomorrow night or two.

[*bfine32*]

(09-12-2018, 09:53 AM)Bengalboy Wrote: some google research (about 30 seconds worth) would prove your statement incorrect. Im not going to waste mine or anyone else's time arguing about it. Some people just hate PFF and no matter how involved they get with all 32 NFL teams (and seemingly college teams now also) and NFL Media it wont change their mind.

PFF may not hire coaches; I have no idea of their staff; however, they do work with the Pro Coaches Network to verify their analysis. Throughout the years in the forum I have discovered folks love or hate PFF dependent on how they grade their favorites or most hated.

I've always enjoyed their ratings and analysis and I appreciate your information.

FWIW, we should all chip in and get the elite package for the forum.

[J24]

Defensively
Nick Vigil looked great two tackles behind the line of scrimmage and good coverage for the most part. Dre was a beast looked like an all pro on Sunday, and Dunlap outside of two qustionable roughing the passer penalties had three biggest plays. A sack, a PD(near pick), and he caused then Brown pick on a hurry. Clayton Fedj had a big play( it was a great one) but other than that was kinda meh. LB coverage outside of vigil was frustrating the most frustrating play was Evans on the TD for Ebron. the guy was in the middle of the field not covering anyone he looked lost. Not sure how PFF blamed that one on Dre.
Overall I would not be worried about the pass rush or our CB coverage but LB play is a concern although Vigil looks like a guy who will get an extension after this season.

[Socal Bengals fan]

(09-13-2018, 01:37 AM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Defensively
Nick Vigil looked great two tackles behind the line of scrimmage and good coverage for the most part. Dre was a beast looked like an all pro on Sunday, and Dunlap outside of two qustionable roughing the passer penalties had three biggest plays. A sack, a PD(near pick), and he caused then Brown pick on a hurry. Clayton Fedj had a big play( it was a great one) but other than that was kinda meh. LB coverage outside of vigil was frustrating the most frustrating play was Evans on the TD for Ebron. the guy was in the middle of the field not covering anyone he looked lost. Not sure how PFF blamed that one on Dre.
Overall I would not be worried about the pass rush or our CB coverage but LB play is a concern although Vigil looks like a guy who will get an extension after this season.

Agree. The LB outside of Vigil looked lost in coverage. We gotta drop one of the safety to help out n hope Jackson n Dre can handle their own

[*Go Cards*]

(09-11-2018, 09:36 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: The top 5 PFF graded defenders are:
1. Clayton Fejdelem 91.7
2. Nick Vigil 85.2
3. Dre Kirkpatrick 84.5
4. Ryan Glasgow 80.6
5. Jessie Bates 79.1

Fej's grade was the third-best safety, fourth-best defensive back, and eighth-best defensive player.
Bates was ranked 9th among all safeties

Andy Dalton was ranked the highest offensive player with 79.9. He ranks sixth highest among quarterbacks.
Cling Boling ranked 3rd highest with a rating of 72.8. He was the only offensive lineman to not allow a pressure.

Now the bad/awful....

Alex Redmond had a rating of 56.5. He allowed five QB pressures.
Bobby Hart had a rating of 37.4. He also allowed five QB pressures.
Hart had the second worst rating of ANY offensive lineman this week.

When rushing to the left and right of Redmond, Bengals running backs totaled eight yards on five carries (1.6 YPC). Rushing everywhere else, Cincy running backs totaled 85 yards on 13 carries (6.54 YPC)

Thanks for posting and like most believe it looks about right with the exception of Mixon. 

He has to be higher than that, but he did whiff on the block. 

Will need to clean that up and believe he will. But 1 missed block does not bring his # down that low. 

[TSwigZ]

We only agree with PFf when it coincides with our opinion. That’s a fact!

[Bengalboy]

(09-13-2018, 04:54 AM)TSwigZ Wrote: We only agree with PFF when it coincides with our opinion. That’s a fact!

hehe, i think that's a natural human reaction.

No doubt they aren't 100% right about everything. But i think you can look through the grades at the end of the season and be in a general consensus with who is at the top and who is at the bottom. For example We could all see how the Oline was last year (everyone was trash minus Boling who is probably above average.) and funnily enough PFF grades agreed. Sticking with the Oline, i think if you watched the game in week 1 you would say the LT / LG / C all looked decent and the biggest issue by far was the RT and funnily enough the grades from PFF would back that argument.