05-12-2021, 07:34 PM
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Front Offices of AFC North
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05-12-2021, 08:35 PM
Who needs scouts when they has all us experts online to scout for them.
Just kidding, the FO is a joke and always has been. The water tastes funny when you're far from your home, yet it's only the thirsty that hunger to roam. Roam the Jungle !
05-12-2021, 08:57 PM
(05-11-2021, 01:26 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: If you wondering what in the hell this thread is supposed to mean then that's probably understandable. The point of this thead is simple; sometimes seeing is better than hearing. Why did you leave Paul Brown, Katie Blackburn, and Troy Blackburn off the front office listing for the Bengals? They all hold positions that you included for other franchises. No bias at all I am sure.
05-12-2021, 09:17 PM
(05-11-2021, 03:09 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Browns are good proof the size of the Front Office doesnt always mean much For decades the Browns were also proof that building through the draft didn't work. The Lions are proof HOF RBs and WRs don't matter. Tom Brady and Jamarcus Russel combine to prove we should cut Burrow and draft a QB in the 6th round. Ok that last one is a bit much, but you get where I'm going.
05-12-2021, 09:42 PM
(05-12-2021, 08:57 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Why did you leave Paul Brown, Katie Blackburn, and Troy Blackburn off the front office listing for the Bengals? They all hold positions that you included for other franchises. No bias at all I am sure. Not true. Not sure if you read how I tallied each, but I followed the same exact steps. I did not include anyone who is listed under ownership/management, training staff, tickets office, sales, PR, ect. You're more than welcome to go to each team page and check the results. I can go back and include each and every team and add the ownership/management for them if you like. (If you notice I did not incude Steve Bisciotti or Richard Cass for the Ravens, Dee Haslam, Jimmy Haslam, JW Johnson, and Whitney Haslam for the Browns, ot Art Rooney II, etc. for the Steelers) What you'll be left with is pretty much the same disparity between the lists. So, no offense but if there's any bias showing here it's your own. PS...
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05-12-2021, 09:57 PM
Here is the Bengals team staff page if anyone feels inclined to check my work...
https://www.bengals.com/team/front-office-roster/ Notice the names of the people OSUfan mentioned are listed under "ownership" and do NOT hold titles like: GM, Director of Personel, Director of Pro Personel, Director of College Scouting, Director of Pro Scouting, College Scout, Pro Scout, Scout, Analystics, Scouting Assistant, etc. I assure you I compiled this list honestly. Anyone is more than welcome to go and check the other team pages. You clearly see I left their ownership/management off as well.
05-12-2021, 10:01 PM
(05-12-2021, 09:57 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Here is the Bengals team staff page if anyone feels inclined to check my work... I stopped at Dan Rooney Jr,
05-12-2021, 10:13 PM
(05-12-2021, 10:01 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I stopped at Dan Rooney Jr, His title on the Steelers page is Player Personnel Coordinator, and he is listed under the "operations staff" along with all of the other traditional front office roles. You can check here: https://www.steelers.com/team/front-office-roster/ Now if you want to hyperfocus on one person with the last name Rooney being included in their front office staff that is provided on the team page and remove him that's ok. Or if you want to go ahead and add someone like Troy Blackburn that's ok too. But does this exercise in semantics really accomplish anything? No offense, but I find post like these only meant to distract from what's clearly visible in the OP. Our front offiice is extremely small. Go ahead and look at each list. Focus on anything with "scout" in the name, or "analytics", or the numbers of Directiors of Personnel. Tell me if the disparity isn't virtually the same.
05-13-2021, 08:57 AM
(05-11-2021, 01:20 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Bengals Doug Rosfeld isn't listed is he still around? I'm not sure how much weight you can put on a website though. I've worked for a company where I was a nobody but was listed on the external website and taken more senior, higher paid jobs at different companies when I wasn't. If this mattered the Bengals could pad out their website by listing all the interns they have compiling scouting tapes and give them fancy titles.
05-13-2021, 10:11 AM
(05-11-2021, 01:20 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Steelers You missed one, but I fixed it for ya
05-13-2021, 11:13 AM
(05-12-2021, 10:13 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: His title on the Steelers page is Player Personnel Coordinator, and he is listed under the "operations staff" along with all of the other traditional front office roles. You can check here: https://www.steelers.com/team/front-office-roster/ Sure our FO is small and nepotistic. The post was more to question the source sited.
05-13-2021, 12:21 PM
(05-13-2021, 11:13 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Sure our FO is small and nepotistic. The post was more to question the source sited. I just linked you the source. Open it up and look. It's absolutely bs to accuse me of or imply that I'm being biased or have somehow constructed these lists in a way that isn't fair. Fwiw, there's a number of Rooney's that aren't on the operations section of the staff. Did it ever occur to you that that partilcar Rooney actually has a legitimate role in that dept? Maybe he actually does things that earn that title, that someone like Troy Blackburn does not do here. Like I said earlier, your reply is about what I expected. Just something to distract from the overall point from the post. Or you just want to be cute and snarky and bust balls. None of it changes that you clearly see our front office is incredibly small. None of it changes you can clearly see the number of scouts. But of course you don't want to focus on any of that do you? You don't want to have an actual conversation about the thread. You just want to pop in and hyperfocus on one name so deligitimize the entire post. Thanks for that.
05-13-2021, 09:28 PM
(05-12-2021, 09:42 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Not true. Not sure if you read how I tallied each, but I followed the same exact steps. I did not include anyone who is listed under ownership/management, training staff, tickets office, sales, PR, ect. You're more than welcome to go to each team page and check the results.Paul Brown carries the title of player personnel and it is right on the team website so not sure what you are looking at.
05-13-2021, 09:32 PM
(05-13-2021, 12:21 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I just linked you the source. Open it up and look. It's absolutely bs to accuse me of or imply that I'm being biased or have somehow constructed these lists in a way that isn't fair. What is with the constant narrative about the size of their scouting department when in fact they are definitely in the top half of the league when it comes to drafting. Obviously, it is not being detrimental to them when it comes to player evaluations. What some also seem to not consider is that complete game film is readily available to these teams at any given time due to technology. Scouting is vastly different than it used to be. They do not have to obtain physical copies of game film anymore.
05-13-2021, 09:36 PM
05-13-2021, 09:51 PM
(05-13-2021, 09:32 PM)OSUfan Wrote: What is with the constant narrative about the size of their scouting department when in fact they are definitely in the top half of the league when it comes to drafting. Obviously, it is not being detrimental to them when it comes to player evaluations. What some also seem to not consider is that complete game film is readily available to these teams at any given time due to technology. Scouting is vastly different than it used to be. They do not have to obtain physical copies of game film anymore.
05-13-2021, 09:55 PM
(05-13-2021, 09:28 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Paul Brown carries the title of player personnel and it is right on the team website so not sure what you are looking at. You know, you are absolutely right. Let's go ahead and move Paul Brown down to the Bengals front office in the OP I shared. That changes everything! Consider this thread closed, conversation over, and the scales balanced.
05-13-2021, 10:09 PM
(05-13-2021, 09:51 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Laugh it up if you like, but it's almost irrefutable that the Bengals draft performance outpaces the size of their scouting staff. We can rightly question and criticize the organization for having such a tiny staff, but we cannot live in a fantasy world where recent Bengals draft history is equivalently "worst". The same tiny staff, for the most part, was among the class of the league drafting the first half of the '10s that has been turds since then.
05-13-2021, 10:18 PM
(05-13-2021, 10:09 PM)JaggedJimmyJay Wrote: Laugh it up if you like, but it's almost irrefutable that the Bengals draft performance outpaces the size of their scouting staff. We can rightly question and criticize the organization for having such a tiny staff, but we cannot live in a fantasy world where recent Bengals draft history is equivalently "worst". The same tiny staff, for the most part, was among the class of the league drafting the first half of the '10s that has been turds since then. What's absolutely frightening to me is that some of you only equate scouting and analytics to the draft. Like you have absolutely no concept of pro scouting or anything of the sort. Regardless of whether or not we've been "the worst", "one of the worst, or even "below average" in the draft alone, there's no arguing with the results on the field. This is a franchise that hasn't won a playoff game in over 30 years. Fwiw, I laughed again when you put us among the "class of the league" in the early 2010's. "Class of the league" to our beaten down fan base means top 12. How sad is that? You would have thought we would have reeled off a couple of Superbowls and Conference Championships in there but nope, we're such a sad organization that we hold up Wild Card performances like the '91-97 Chicago Bulls. I'm going to put this as simply as I can: All of the people you see listed in the OP have a hand in building their respective teams. And our team has been laughingstock for years. That's a real big ***** problem and it needs to be fixed ASAP. No one should be defending the Hader Hardware that is our front office.
05-13-2021, 10:29 PM
(05-13-2021, 10:18 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: What's absolutely frightening to me is that some of you only equate scouting and analytics to the draft. Like you have absolutely no concept of pro scouting or anything of the sort. You're drawing a correlation and showing me nothing whatsoever to connect the contents of the OP to the results on the field. To simply say: "staff small, win-loss record bad, derrrrrrrr?!?!!" is not a good point. It's shit. I even agree that there is a connection between the small staff and the franchise's struggles on the field, but it isn't an easy one to qualify and this thread does a shit job of examining it. |
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