Can Andy and the Bengals finally win a playoff game?

[Luvnit2]

(07-09-2015, 02:39 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Did anyone point out that the Bengals have to actually make the playoffs before we get to find out if they're going to break the streak?  The fact that people are just assuming the Bengals are going to be playing in the wild card round for a 5th straight time (only to lose again?) is quite the humorous blend of pat-on-the-back and kick-in-the-arse.

100% gonna make the playoffs
100% gonna lose in the first round

Book it?

I get it, speculation and off-season and all that, but we're just assuming the Bengals are going to make the playoffs when the NFL is designed to shake things up on a yearly basis unless you have a HOF QB and a HC who knows his head from a hole in the ground.

Anywho, I'm not counting us in the playoffs any more than I'm saying they are going to win or lose, but I do find it amusing that the world of sports fans and analysts have found a way to turn the Bengals being a lock for the playoffs into a perennial insult.

 Funny post.

I like the part where you chastise fans for optimism of hoping they make the playoffs

Then immediately go to "(only to lose again?)". Classic

[djs7685]

(07-09-2015, 03:24 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I agree about Winston

The Smith loss may have been a bigger deal than I thought as well, but hopefully at least one of the rookies is better by Winston come playoff time this year

So, speaking of the Colts v Bengals playoff game.

Winston is credited with giving up 1 sack, Zeitler for another, and the other sack is credited to.....Andy Dalton.

Anyone happen to know the play in question where Andy would be given credit for giving up a sack?

[PDub80]

(07-09-2015, 01:29 AM)bearstronaut Wrote: You keep on quoting our defenses regular season ranking.  Why?  They didn't play well in the playoff games.  Period.  Andy Dalton put up some decent stats in those years regular seasons also.  But then he didn't play well in the playoff game.  That's your problem with him.  So why bring up that the defense was good in the regular season?  It doesnt matter if we had the number 1 ranked defense all 3 of the years you listed above.  They didnt show up in the playoff game.  Like the whole team.

Actually, in the SD game the defense played really well. It's a misconception that the D or coaches (game plan) cost the Bengals that game. That one is squarely on the shoulders of one Andy Dalton.

1st half
- Bengals D gave up 7 points. (Bengals up at the half 10-7)

2nd half
- D gave up 7 points....
- Then came Dalton with back to back to back (yes, count 'em: 3) turn overs in a row: One on the Bengals own 25, the other on the Bengals own 3, the 3rd on the 50. Chargers came away with 6 points out of all that. But the clock was eaten alive.
- The long 50 some yard TD was in garbage time with 3 mins left.

Basically, the SD playoff game Andy filled his pants. The D gave them a great chance to be in a position to win for most of the game.

2nd Houston game?

The D gave up 1 TD and 4 FGs. Dalton completed LESS than 50% of his passes and put up an INT for a passer rating of 44.7.

Because the offense couldn't move the ball, the D was on the field twice as long. It's easy for the Texans to run the ball that game because the Bengals couldn't score to put pressure on them to pass it. It was 7-9 Texans at half time. That's good D. The D only gave up 10 points the whole 2nd half. The OFFENSE is the one to blame... yet again.

Time of possession that game:
21:11 Bengals, 38:49 Texans

First Downs that game:
12 Bengals, 24 Texans

It's a common theme around here to forget how good the Bengals defense has been and how much the offense has squandered it. I don't understand it.

[PDub80]

(07-09-2015, 03:33 PM)djs7685 Wrote: So, speaking of the Colts v Bengals playoff game.

Winston is credited with giving up 1 sack, Zeitler for another, and the other sack is credited to.....Andy Dalton.

Anyone happen to know the play in question where Andy would be given credit for giving up a sack?

Maybe it was on the fumble? 

[Luvnit2]

(07-09-2015, 03:33 PM)djs7685 Wrote: So, speaking of the Colts v Bengals playoff game.

Winston is credited with giving up 1 sack, Zeitler for another, and the other sack is credited to.....Andy Dalton.

Anyone happen to know the play in question where Andy would be given credit for giving up a sack?

I have no idea. I never knew such a statistic existed

[WhoDeyWho]

(07-09-2015, 03:35 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Actually, in the SD game the defense played really well. It's a misconception that the D or coaches (game plan) cost the Bengals that game. That one is squarely on the shoulders of one Andy Dalton.

1st half
- Bengals D gave up 7 points. (Bengals up at the half 10-7)

2nd half
- D gave up 7 points....
- Then came Dalton with back to back to back (yes, count 'em: 3) turn overs in a row: One on the Bengals own 25, the other on the Bengals own 3, the 3rd on the 50. Chargers came away with 6 points out of all that. But the clock was eaten alive.
- The long 50 some yard TD was in garbage time with 3 mins left.

Basically, the SD playoff game Andy filled his pants. The D gave them a great chance to be in a position to win for most of the game.

2nd Houston game?

The D gave up 1 TD and 4 FGs. Dalton completed LESS than 50% of his passes and put up an INT for a passer rating of 44.7.

Because the offense couldn't move the ball, the D was on the field twice as long. It's easy for the Texans to run the ball that game because the Bengals couldn't score to put pressure on them to pass it. It was 7-9 Texans at half time. That's good D. The D only gave up 10 points the whole 2nd half. The OFFENSE is the one to blame... yet again.

Time of possession that game:
21:11 Bengals, 38:49 Texans

First Downs that game:
12 Bengals, 24 Texans

It's a common theme around here to forget how good the Bengals defense has been and how much the offense has squandered it. I don't understand it.

If the D was on the field for twice as long, that's twice as many opportunities to generate turnovers.  We have 2 in the Marvin era in the playoffs.  

[Junglejuice]

(07-09-2015, 03:35 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Actually, in the SD game the defense played really well. It's a misconception that the D or coaches (game plan) cost the Bengals that game. That one is squarely on the shoulders of one Andy Dalton.

1st half
- Bengals D gave up 7 points. (Bengals up at the half 10-7)

2nd half
- D gave up 7 points....
- Then came Dalton with back to back to back (yes, count 'em: 3) turn overs in a row: One on the Bengals own 25, the other on the Bengals own 3, the 3rd on the 50. Chargers came away with 6 points out of all that. But the clock was eaten alive.
- The long 50 some yard TD was in garbage time with 3 mins left.

Basically, the SD playoff game Andy filled his pants. The D gave them a great chance to be in a position to win for most of the game.

2nd Houston game?

The D gave up 1 TD and 4 FGs. Dalton completed LESS than 50% of his passes and put up an INT for a passer rating of 44.7.

Because the offense couldn't move the ball, the D was on the field twice as long. It's easy for the Texans to run the ball that game because the Bengals couldn't score to put pressure on them to pass it. It was 7-9 Texans at half time. That's good D. The D only gave up 10 points the whole 2nd half. The OFFENSE is the one to blame... yet again.

Time of possession that game:
21:11 Bengals, 38:49 Texans

First Downs that game:
12 Bengals, 24 Texans

It's a common theme around here to forget how good the Bengals defense has been and how much the offense has squandered it. I don't understand it.

I still believe if Gio doesnt fumble on the 5 the Bengals go into the half 17-7 and win the game
The fumble and lack of adjustments started the snowball down the hill.

The Bengals offense was playing alright til adversity hit.

[fredtoast]

(07-09-2015, 03:35 PM)PDub80 Wrote: 2nd Houston game?

The D gave up 1 TD and 4 FGs. Dalton completed LESS than 50% of his passes and put up an INT for a passer rating of 44.7.

Because the offense couldn't move the ball, the D was on the field twice as long. It's easy for the Texans to run the ball that game because the Bengals couldn't score to put pressure on them to pass it. It was 7-9 Texans at half time. That's good D. The D only gave up 10 points the whole 2nd half. The OFFENSE is the one to blame... yet again.

Time of possession that game:
21:11 Bengals, 38:49 Texans

First Downs that game:
12 Bengals, 24 Texans

It's a common theme around here to forget how good the Bengals defense has been and how much the offense has squandered it. I don't understand it.

1st Houston game?

Time of possession
30:17 Bengals, 29:43 Houston

Total plays
65 Bengals, 57 Houston

Yet that fresh and rested Bengal defense still got shredded by Arian Foster for 182 yards on 27 touches.

[PlayerFormerlyKnownAsMousecop]

(07-09-2015, 12:14 PM)djs7685 Wrote: The first part of the bolded is true, because they are. Just like the Super Bowl being more important than the playoff games once you get there, the single elimination playoff games are "more important" to win than some regular season games once you qualify for the postseason tournament. I'm sorry that you don't understand that.

I have an issue with the second part of the bold statement. I've NEVER said that the Bengals can't win a playoff game, I've NEVER said that Marvin Lewis can't win a playoff game, and I've NEVER said that Andy Dalton can't win a playoff game. This is just you proving that you need strawman arguments to make your points and/or you're not bright enough to read properly.

Your last paragraph is just hogwash. We aren't a lower tier organization. We aren't on the same level as the Browns or Jaguars. One playoff win next season is another step in the right direction whether you acknowledge that or not. I'm sure you'll find plenty more strawman arguments to utilize and maybe you'll even completely contradict yourself again. I guess we'll see, stay tuned, folks!

I yield, I yield.

Seriously though, the playoff thing is just a way for the media to rag on a small market team.

I don't want to get too deep into this right now, but regardless of how well the organization has been doing objectively as of late, there is still the PERCEPTION that we are a lower tier org. And that truly makes a difference in this league (from everything to free agents, to coaches, to owners, to players on the team, to other fans, etc).

The way to change that perception is to get SUPER BOWL wins. Not playoff wins. I don't think that this argument is very flawed here. Playoff wins are nice, but Super Bowl wins get the right kind of publicity. That's how you change perceptions. Settling for playoff wins as fans just feeds this idea that Bengals fans are depraved and have low standards. Our goal should be the Super Bowl victories, and that's the only way we'll ever get one. Over and out.

[*Nately120*]

(07-09-2015, 03:29 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote:  Funny post.

I like the part where you chastise fans for optimism of hoping they make the playoffs

Then immediately go to "(only to lose again?)". Classic

I think you missed the point. I'm saying the NFL experts and analysts are willing to fluff the Bengals up enough to assume we'll make the playoffs again, but against them enough to point out it's going to be a loss. Hey, maybe we are the type of franchise where you don't have to worry about football games counting until January.

[PDub80]

(07-09-2015, 05:51 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: If the D was on the field for twice as long, that's twice as many opportunities to generate turnovers.  We have 2 in the Marvin era in the playoffs.  

That's a nice sentiment, but it's complaining about the garnish on a plate of under-cooked steak. It amazes me that people continue to misdirect attention away from what has CLEARLY been the problem: The offense - primarily the QB's - issues.

(07-09-2015, 06:53 PM)Junglejuice Wrote: I still believe if Gio doesnt fumble on the 5 the Bengals go into the half 17-7 and win the game
The fumble and lack of adjustments started the snowball down the hill.

The Bengals offense was playing alright til adversity hit.

The fumble really hurt, but the Chargers did NOT get points off of that. The Bengals were still fine at that point. The offense was not finishing drives at all and kept getting stopped. There wasn't anything to adjust to, the Bengals just weren't executing.

Adversity came in the form of an Andy Dalton meltdown in the form of back to back.... to back turnovers in Bengals territory. That's the long and the short of it. It wasn't the defense. It wasn't Gio's fumble. It wasn't a game plan. It was bad quarterbacking. The game was within one score up until AD lost his cool.

(07-09-2015, 07:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 1st Houston game?

Time of possession
30:17 Bengals, 29:43 Houston

Total plays
65 Bengals, 57 Houston

Yet that fresh and rested Bengal defense still got shredded by Arian Foster for 182 yards on 27 touches.

Classic Fred: Quotes a post, ignores it's content, misdirects to something else trying to change the subject.

I'll tell you the story of the 1st Houston game since the 2nd Houston game & San Diego game you clearly want to avoid.....

  I didn't mention the first Houston game because the team has changed significantly since then. But, since you mentioned it, I will bring up Dalton's 0 TD, 3 INT performance to go with his 51.4 passer rating. The offense was awful. So, yeah, keep blaming the defense as the major factor in losing that game. Maybe you should instead investigate the timeline of how that game unfolded. No need, I'll spoon feed it to you. OPEN WIDE.....

and let me show you how Andy Dalton blew that game...

Tied 10-10 in the 2nd
- Dalton throws a pick 6 with 1:48 left in the half. Without that the Bengals are tied 10-10 at the half and are due to get the ball back to start the 3rd.
- 4th Quarter, down 14 points (7 of which are Dalton's own doing from the pick 6) he throws back to back INTs. Game is over at that point.
- Foster runs in a long TD, which had no baring on anything, similar to the long TD Brown scored with 3 mins left in the Chargers game.

Andy Dalton thrice filled his pants at the worst possible moments, yet people blame the defense? 


I'm sorry, but the more I break down Andy Dalton and how he's submarined the Bengals in the playoffs and how often he can get crappy in the regular season, the more he looks like hot garbage. He has wasted the years of some really fine teammates. Lets hope & pray he rolls out of the dung heap this season. Good Lord. Some of you need to wake up.

[PlayerFormerlyKnownAsMousecop]

(07-09-2015, 11:33 AM)PhilHos Wrote: I like you, dude. I have no idea what your name means, but I like your style and I like your signature. With that said, if purposeless posts annoy you, then you're going to need to stop visiting this message board. This board is lousy with them.


Side note: why don't we use the "lousy with" idiom more often? Yes, I'm asking why our conversations are not lousy with "lousy with" idioms.

Haha, thanks man. The pointless post was me mainly just ragging on the other guy, his tone seemed kind of argumentative so I was letting loose. Plus being hungover this morning didn't exaclty help my mood.

Btw, the name is a Key & Peele reference (show on Comedy Central). It's kind of a play on words in reference to the fact that some of us changed our names over from the old message boards (i.e. Toast Jones/Wes Mantooth).

[BengalChris]

(07-09-2015, 05:51 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: If the D was on the field for twice as long, that's twice as many opportunities to generate turnovers.  We have 2 in the Marvin era in the playoffs.  

The Bengals D happened to outscore the offense in that game with a pick 6. The offense only scored two FGs.

[PDub80]

(07-09-2015, 08:15 PM)BengalChris Wrote: The Bengals D happened to outscore the offense in that game with a pick 6. The offense only scored two FGs.

Woah woah woah! You're using logic and facts. Totally against the rules!

[fredtoast]

(07-09-2015, 07:58 PM)PDub80 Wrote: and let me show you how Andy Dalton blew that game...

Tied 10-10 in the 2nd
- Dalton throws a pick 6 with 1:48 left in the half. Without that the Bengals are tied 10-10 at the half and are due to get the ball back to start the 3rd.
- 4th Quarter, down 14 points (7 of which are Dalton's own doing from the pick 6) he throws back to back INTs. Game is over at that point.
- Foster runs in a long TD, which had no baring on anything, similar to the long TD Brown scored with 3 mins left in the Chargers game.

Andy Dalton thrice filled his pants at the worst possible moments, yet people blame the defense? 

The interception right before the half was a ball tipped by AJ Watt where he made an incredible play.  Another of his interceptions was a deep pass on 4th down that would have been turned over on downs anyway.

And I noticed you completely ignored the third quarter where Dalton was 5-7 for 62 yards yet we somehow fell behind by another 7 points. And if the Bengals were within 7 instead of down by 14 they are going for it on 4th down early in the 4th quarter.

But none of that was the point I was trying to make.  You try to claim the defense was bad because the offense never let them rest, yet they gave up a 90 yard drive after just being on the field 5 plays in the second half.

[*rfaulk34*]

(07-09-2015, 02:39 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Did anyone point out that the Bengals have to actually make the playoffs before we get to find out if they're going to break the streak?  The fact that people are just assuming the Bengals are going to be playing in the wild card round for a 5th straight time (only to lose again?) is quite the humorous blend of pat-on-the-back and kick-in-the-arse.

100% gonna make the playoffs
100% gonna lose in the first round

Book it?

I get it, speculation and off-season and all that, but we're just assuming the Bengals are going to make the playoffs when the NFL is designed to shake things up on a yearly basis unless you have a HOF QB and a HC who knows his head from a hole in the ground.

Anywho, I'm not counting us in the playoffs any more than I'm saying they are going to win or lose, but I do find it amusing that the world of sports fans and analysts have found a way to turn the Bengals being a lock for the playoffs into a perennial insult.

The more this team has been built over the last 3-4 years, the better chance they have making the playoff--even with a major injury. 

Now, i did say "better" chance, so yes, a lot of people are going to consider the playoffs a foregone conclusion. I know that until/if they are knocked out of contention, i'm going to assume they're going to be there and there's really nothing in the last 4 years that anyone can point to and say that's irrational.

[*rfaulk34*]

(07-09-2015, 03:33 PM)djs7685 Wrote: So, speaking of the Colts v Bengals playoff game.

Winston is credited with giving up 1 sack, Zeitler for another, and the other sack is credited to.....Andy Dalton.

Anyone happen to know the play in question where Andy would be given credit for giving up a sack?

(07-09-2015, 03:43 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Maybe it was on the fumble? 

Just guessing, but i'd say anytime the QB is outside the pocket and gets tackled behind the LOS. Or maybe he ran out of bounds behind the LOS.

[Junglejuice]

(07-09-2015, 07:58 PM)PDub80 Wrote: That's a nice sentiment, but it's complaining about the garnish on a plate of under-cooked steak. It amazes me that people continue to misdirect attention away from what has CLEARLY been the problem: The offense - primarily the QB's - issues.


The fumble really hurt, but the Chargers did NOT get points off of that. The Bengals were still fine at that point. The offense was not finishing drives at all and kept getting stopped. There wasn't anything to adjust to, the Bengals just weren't executing.

Adversity came in the form of an Andy Dalton meltdown in the form of back to back.... to back turnovers in Bengals territory. That's the long and the short of it. It wasn't the defense. It wasn't Gio's fumble. It wasn't a game plan. It was bad quarterbacking. The game was within one score up until AD lost his cool.


Classic Fred: Quotes a post, ignores it's content, misdirects to something else trying to change the subject.

I'll tell you the story of the 1st Houston game since the 2nd Houston game & San Diego game you clearly want to avoid.....

  I didn't mention the first Houston game because the team has changed significantly since then. But, since you mentioned it, I will bring up Dalton's 0 TD, 3 INT performance to go with his 51.4 passer rating. The offense was awful. So, yeah, keep blaming the defense as the major factor in losing that game. Maybe you should instead investigate the timeline of how that game unfolded. No need, I'll spoon feed it to you. OPEN WIDE.....

and let me show you how Andy Dalton blew that game...

Tied 10-10 in the 2nd
- Dalton throws a pick 6 with 1:48 left in the half. Without that the Bengals are tied 10-10 at the half and are due to get the ball back to start the 3rd.
- 4th Quarter, down 14 points (7 of which are Dalton's own doing from the pick 6) he throws back to back INTs. Game is over at that point.
- Foster runs in a long TD, which had no baring on anything, similar to the long TD Brown scored with 3 mins left in the Chargers game.

Andy Dalton thrice filled his pants at the worst possible moments, yet people blame the defense? 


I'm sorry, but the more I break down Andy Dalton and how he's submarined the Bengals in the playoffs and how often he can get crappy in the regular season, the more he looks like hot garbage. He has wasted the years of some really fine teammates. Lets hope & pray he rolls out of the dung heap this season. Good Lord. Some of you need to wake up.

To each their own but honestly... 17-7 is a way different ball game going into the half at home then a 10-7 lead anyway you slice it.
Dalton was actually pretty on point the first half.

The Bengals team at home in 2013 was really good at pouncing on teams once they got 2 scores up.
The Gio fumble qued the here we go again mentality......  And yes adjustments make all the difference considering in the second half our OL could not block to save their lives.
But keep throwing seems like a good idea....
And If I remember our star receiver dropped a very catch able ball that couldve got the team back in it.
But yea....Dalton's fault only.. seems legit.

But like I said.... to each their own.

[PDub80]

(07-09-2015, 10:19 PM)Junglejuice Wrote: To each their own but honestly... 17-7 is a way different ball game going into the half at home then a 10-7 lead anyway you slice it.

The Bengals team at home in 2013 was really good at pouncing on teams once they got 2 scores up.
The Gio fumble qued the here we go again mentality......  And yes adjustments make all the difference.
And If I remember our star receiver dropped a very catch able ball that couldve got the team back in it.

But like I said.... to each their own.

I agree, 17-7 is a much different game and the Gio play was a heart breaker. I respect your persepctive, and anyone else's as long as they stick to what really happened and are fair to all of the players. For me, though, I can't pin Gio's turnover on stuff that happened several quarters later.

[Shake n Blake]

(07-09-2015, 03:35 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Actually, in the SD game the defense played really well. It's a misconception that the D or coaches (game plan) cost the Bengals that game. That one is squarely on the shoulders of one Andy Dalton.

1st half
- Bengals D gave up 7 points. (Bengals up at the half 10-7)

2nd half
- D gave up 7 points....
- Then came Dalton with back to back to back (yes, count 'em: 3) turn overs in a row: One on the Bengals own 25, the other on the Bengals own 3, the 3rd on the 50. Chargers came away with 6 points out of all that. But the clock was eaten alive.
- The long 50 some yard TD was in garbage time with 3 mins left.

Basically, the SD playoff game Andy filled his pants. The D gave them a great chance to be in a position to win for most of the game.

2nd Houston game?

The D gave up 1 TD and 4 FGs. Dalton completed LESS than 50% of his passes and put up an INT for a passer rating of 44.7.

Because the offense couldn't move the ball, the D was on the field twice as long. It's easy for the Texans to run the ball that game because the Bengals couldn't score to put pressure on them to pass it. It was 7-9 Texans at half time. That's good D. The D only gave up 10 points the whole 2nd half. The OFFENSE is the one to blame... yet again.

Time of possession that game:
21:11 Bengals, 38:49 Texans

First Downs that game:
12 Bengals, 24 Texans

It's a common theme around here to forget how good the Bengals defense has been and how much the offense has squandered it. I don't understand it.

It's sad that the best defensive performances you can come up with are these 2 gems, when the D gave up an average of 178 rushing yards and allowed the opposing QB's to complete an absurd 75.9% of their throws with a 93.9 passer rating. I guess that's why you have to excuse these 2 games by blaming the QB.

Andy could've played better. The defense also could've played better. Why blame the crap performance of one on the other? It'd be like me blaming Andy's performance on the fact that the defense couldn't get off the field or force any turnovers (I'm not). You act as if the offense can hurt/help the defense but the same isn't true for the defense hurting or helping the offense. 

The fact is that the entire team played like crap and neither the offense nor the defense did each other any favors in any of these games. The rare exception being Leon's pick-six in the 2nd Texans game (one of two turnovers from all six games combined). I can provide numerous examples of QB's turning the ball over multiple times and the defense still playing an excellent game. Russell Wilson's 4 int's in the NFC title game come to mind. The Ravens defense carried Flacco to some playoff wins early in his career. Peyton played like crap during his entire SB run in Indy. Boomer played like crap all the way to the SB.

I'm not saying that a defense should have to do this, I'm only saying that blaming the QB for the shoddy defensive performance is lame. There's plenty of legit stuff to bash Andy for, but you lose credibility when you start blaming the QB for everything but the weather. The defense has 5 total sacks and 2 forced turnovers in 6 playoff games. For a defense that's been so stout in all of those years, that's ridiculous. Period.