1 day, 2 shootings in spotlight:

[fredtoast]

(09-26-2016, 06:44 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote:  Why did I feel the need to keep an eye on them?  

That is a good question.

Why did you?  Is throwing a phone in the air a sign of criminal activity?

When you treat EVERYONE as a criminal you are going to be right sometimes.  But that does not mean you have any "heightened senses", because you are also going to be wrong a lot.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-26-2016, 06:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I'm sorry, but I thought you said you used your "experience" on your job also.

Everyone does.  Except you said in that specific instance I violated the kid's rights.  Please explain.

Quote:But since you are such a legal expert wasn't it illegal for you to threaten the guy if he ever came back to that area of town?

Nope.  Enlighten us, counselor, as to what constitutes an illegal threat and why one did not occur in this instance.

Quote:Just another example of a cop who admits that he thinks he is above the law when off duty but expects us to believe he would never do anything liike that while in uniform.

I'm really curious as to why a lawyer can't answer basic legal questions and constantly tries to deflect the conversation away from them.  How did I act, "above the law", in the stated scenario.  You're painting yourself into a corner here.

[fredtoast]

(09-26-2016, 06:49 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Nope.  Enlighten us, counselor, as to what constitutes an illegal threat and why one did not occur in this instance.

Any comments that puts a reasonable person in fear is illegal.  Since you have no legal authority to threaten the guy with consequences just for being in an area open to the public then it WAS an illegal threat.

Now it is your turn.  Why was it NOT an illegal threat. When is one citizen allowed to tell another that he can not be in a certain area open to the public?

[fredtoast]

(09-26-2016, 06:49 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote:  How did I act, "above the law", in the stated scenario.  

You have no authority to tell a citizen that he can not be in an area open to the public.

[*bfine32*]

(09-26-2016, 08:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You have no authority to tell a citizen that he can not be in an area open to the public.

Sure you do. Enforcing it is another matter.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-26-2016, 06:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: That is a good question.

Why did you?  Is throwing a phone in the air a sign of criminal activity?

I'd be happy to explain.  To most teenagers their phone is almost more important than their life.  They use it for anything, it's their lifeline.  If you doubt me try and punish a teenager by taking their phone and see their response.  A teenager throwing a large smart phone around and in the air is very unusual.  A teenager risking breaking their smartphone, something they cannot replace themselves?  My immediate thought was that he had a stolen phone, which turned out to be 100% correct.  

(09-26-2016, 08:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Any comments that puts a reasonable person in fear is illegal.  Since you have no legal authority to threaten the guy with consequences just for being in an area open to the public then it WAS an illegal threat.  
Now it is your turn.  Why was it NOT an illegal threat.

Incorrect, another basic legal error on your part.  A criminal threat only occurs when a threat is made that the victim could reasonably believe you intended to carry out.  I made no threat, hence you are completely wrong.  If I had said, get out of here or I'll beat the dog shit out of you then you have the makings of a criminal threat.  Do your best lawyer impression and explain to the class how you'd prove a threat was made based on my description of the event.

Quote:When is one citizen allowed to tell another that he can not be in a certain area open to the public?

Anytime they want, as long as they don't threaten them.  A guy comes up to me at a park and states, I don't want you here.  My response is, good for you and I don't care.  The guy leaves.  No crime has occurred. 

(09-26-2016, 08:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You have no authority to tell a citizen that he can not be in an area open to the public.

I have the right to say whatever I want as long as it does not cross into the area of a threats.  No threat was made, I exercised my 1st amendment rights then you wet your pants.  Can you please stop pretending to be a lawyer now?  The mask has completely slipped off, dude.

(09-26-2016, 08:30 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Sure you do. Enforcing it is another matter.

Bingo!  You know more about the law than a "lawyer".  Fred still can't tell us how this kid's rights were violated because he doesn't know what is missing that is required to prove a violation of rights.

[*bfine32*]

(09-26-2016, 09:35 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Bingo!  You know more about the law than a "lawyer".  

I have a 6th sense.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-27-2016, 12:25 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I have a 6th sense.

Stole that.

[fredtoast]

(09-26-2016, 09:35 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Incorrect, another basic legal error on your part.  A criminal threat only occurs when a threat is made that the victim could reasonably believe you intended to carry out.  I made no threat, hence you are completely wrong.  If I had said, get out of here or I'll beat the dog shit out of you then you have the makings of a criminal threat.  Do your best lawyer impression and explain to the class how you'd prove a threat was made based on my description of the event.

You clearly made a threat.  And a reasonable person could believe that you meant what you said.

Why would a person not believe you?  If some crazy guy curses me and threatens me if he ever sees me in  an area again then I am going to be afraid to go back to that area.

Remember what you said about giving people legal advice when you don't know what you are talking about.  You should follow your own advice.  A person can get in a lot of trouble for cursing a stranger and telling him he is not allowed to be in an area open to the public.  That is an illegal threat.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-27-2016, 09:47 AM)fredtoast Wrote: You clearly made a threat.  And a reasonable person could believe that you meant what you said.

Why would a person not believe you?  If some crazy guy curses me and threatens me if he ever sees me in  an area again then I am going to be afraid to go back to that area.

Remember what you said about giving people legal advice when you don't know what you are talking about.  You should follow your own advice.  A person can get in a lot of trouble for cursing a stranger and telling him he is not allowed to be in an area open to the public.  That is an illegal threat.

No it isn't.  I've given you the benefit of the doubt over some basic errors on your part but I now truly think you're lying about being a lawyer.  You've made so many basic errors and you don't even know what constitutes an illegal threat.  Save yourself any more embarrassment and drop the act already.

[fredtoast]

(09-26-2016, 09:35 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote:  Fred still can't tell us how this kid's rights were violated because he doesn't know what is missing that is required to prove a violation of rights.

I will admit that you did not violate the kid's rights.  You were off duty.  I have just pointed out that you brag about using these same "heightened senses" with no objective justification on your job.

[fredtoast]

(09-27-2016, 09:50 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: No it isn't.

So you are saying that it is perfectly legal to threaten another person if they go into an area open to the public.

You are saying that there is nothing illegal about that at all?

[fredtoast]

(09-26-2016, 08:30 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Sure you do. Enforcing it is another matter.

(09-26-2016, 09:35 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Bingo!  You know more about the law than a "lawyer".  

No.  You are both 100% wrong.  It is illegal to threaten a person even if you do not intend to enforce that threat.

All that is required under the law is that the person believes the threat is real, and in this case the kid had every reason to believe that the guy cursing him would enforce his threat.  There is absolutely no reason he would NOT believe it.  

Another cop who believes he is above the law and can threaten and intimidate people just for asking him what time it was.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-27-2016, 09:51 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I will admit that you did not violate the kid's rights.  You were off duty.  I have just pointed out that you brag about using these same "heightened senses" with no objective justification on your job.

Oh, so you admit you said something wrong that I immediately called you out on.  How come the LEO knows more about the law than a "lawyer"?

(09-27-2016, 09:53 AM)fredtoast Wrote: So you are saying that it is perfectly legal to threaten another person if they go into an area open to the public.

You are saying that there is nothing illegal about that at all?

I'll ask again, where was the threat in my statement?  Go back and look really hard and then tell the class were the threat is.

[GMDino]

(09-27-2016, 09:51 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I will admit that you did not violate the kid's rights.  You were off duty.  I have just pointed out that you brag about using these same "heightened senses" with no objective justification on your job.

There's no sense discussing anything with him Fred.  There will be no discussion of the topic just personal insults.

Any other response will probably get me banned.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-27-2016, 10:03 AM)fredtoast Wrote: It is illegal to threaten a person even if you do not intend to enforce that threat.

This is true.  Now you need to show us were the threat is.

Quote:All that is required under the law is that the person believes the threat is real, and in this case the kid had every reason to believe that the guy cursing him would enforce his threat.  There is absolutely no reason he would NOT believe it.

 
I'll ask again, what threat?

Quote:Another cop who believes he is above the law and can threaten and intimidate people just for asking him what time it was.

Hah, you have no idea how much I'm enjoying watching you fumble around on this issue.  First you claim I violated the kid's rights.  I point out how you're wrong.  After looking it up on the internet you then admit I am right.  Then you looked up what constitutes a criminal threat but you lack the legal knowledge to determine how the law actually works.  You should have picked an easier profession to pretend you're part of.

[fredtoast]

(09-27-2016, 10:08 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I'll ask again, where was the threat in my statement?  Go back and look really hard and then tell the class were the threat is.

You told him that you "Better not see him in that area again".  That is clearly a violent threat.  Especially when you add in the cursing.  It is obvious you meant that bad things would happen to him.  


What other meaning could it possibly have?

[fredtoast]

(09-27-2016, 10:12 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote:  Then you looked up what constitutes a criminal threat but you lack the legal knowledge to determine how the law actually works.  You should have picked an easier profession to pretend you're part of.

I know exactly what constitutes a legal threat.

All that is required is that a reasonable person would feel threatened with harm based on your comments.  And any reasonable person would believe that a stranger who curses him for just asking  what time it is would feel threatened by those comments.

What other possible meaning could your words have to a reasonable person?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-27-2016, 10:17 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I know exactly what constitutes a legal threat.

All that is required is that a reasonable person would feel threatened with harm based on your comments.

Incorrect, an actual threat must be made.  Simple inference does not constitute a legal threat.  You really need to stop, I'm actually feeling bad for you.

Quote: And any reasonable person would believe that a stranger who curses him for just asking  what time it is would feel threatened by those comments.

Haha, being cursed at is now a criminal threat?  You're precious.

Quote:What other possible meaning could your words have to a reasonable person?

Several, none of them criminal. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-27-2016, 10:14 AM)fredtoast Wrote: You told him that you "Better not see him in that area again".  That is clearly a violent threat.  Especially when you add in the cursing.  It is obvious you meant that bad things would happen to him.  

Wow, you are really bad at this.  To have a violent threat violence has to be threatened.  Lets say a mafia don says that if you don't have his money by Monday it would be unfortunate.  You clearly know what he means, but his statement is not a criminal threat.  Let's say he's even arrested and charged, his lawyer would have a field day in court.  Same scenario and the don says if you don't have his money by Monday he'll cut off your thumb.  That constitutes a threat.