All Things Not Islamaphobia/Terrorism/open borders/Anything French

[StLucieBengal]

Exit polling showing that national front sweeping the country with support. Could be seeing a change happening, following a model like Poland .

[Benton]

Given the daily creation of some new terrorism/anti Islam/France terrorism thread, we're going to just roll it all into one. Unfortunately, creating a new thread every time some media puts up some story for or against Islam is burying a number of threads and interesting discussions.

In the future, please use your judgement to discern if something needs an entire new thread, or if it's more of the same. If it looks like more of the same with a cursory glance, there's a good chance it'll get merged anyway.

Thanks!

[StLucieBengal]

Not really sure why it's all being thrown together.

European elections impacts quite a bit. It's more than. Clock boy and islamaphobia.

[Rotobeast]

Wow.....
This is somewhat disappointing.
It basically killed every thread which had been merged.
Nobody is going to search back through all of that.
Maybe sticky a few general threads on terrorism, ect..., but I'm not ever going to feel like contributing anything if I think it may get rolled up in some messy cluster.

Might as well just axe the sub-forum, now.

[Benton]

(12-07-2015, 12:23 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: Might as well just axe the sub-forum, now.

Well, I wouldn't go that far.

But any time there are 4-6 threads on one page that are essentially the same thing, they most likely are going to get merged. Otherwise it chokes out any other conversations people might want to have. 

[Rotobeast]

(12-07-2015, 12:50 AM)Benton Wrote: Well, I wouldn't go that far.

But any time there are 4-6 threads on one page that are essentially the same thing, they most likely are going to get merged. Otherwise it chokes out any other conversations people might want to have. 

I understand what is trying to be accomplished, I just think it's too much to lump into one. 

Again, maybe some relevant stickies, but this is borderline insulting as it's as a garbage bin.

[StLucieBengal]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/12037157/Front-Nationals-historic-result-should-be-a-wake-up-call-to-the-EU.html

I can't get this quoted. But some legitimate concerns are being raised. And goes into how Cameron is trying to find a middle ground to prevent the EU from falling.

should we be concerned if the EU bloc falls?

[fredtoast]

EU is not close to failing.

Immigration issues will not outweigh economic interests, and a party that just carries 28% of the vote is not going to bump France out of the EU.



BTW there is a thread for this. Please merge.

[StLucieBengal]

There is a thread about European politics and the future of the EU?

[fredtoast]

(12-07-2015, 12:55 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: There is a thread about European politics and the future of the EU?

Yes.  The same one where you last posted the information about the National Front polling numbers in France.

[StLucieBengal]

(12-07-2015, 01:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes.  The same one where you last posted the information about the National Front polling numbers in France.

Oh you mean the garbage bin thread. I didn't post that there, and had that original thread been left alone this info would have been placed in that one. Which would have been an European politics thread.

I'm not messing with the garbage bin thread. It's pointless.

[mallorian69]

I don't know if it's been said before and i'm not going to dig through several threads worth of unrelated crap to try to find it, but who exactly are we checking with to see if these so called refugees are who they claim to be?

Are they calling up the Syrian government and checking with them? I highly doubt it seeing as how the Syrian government has more pressing matters, like a civil war to attend to. And even if they could get in contact with Syrian officials, does anyone think they would tell us the truth about any of these people? It's not like we were on great diplomatic terms with them before their civil war and are on ever worse terms now since we support the government opposition. They would be more likely to intentionally give false testimony to allow someone in that would do us harm.

How can you vet someone when there is no one trustworthy that you can contact to confirm that the information they have provided is correct?

[Benton]

(12-07-2015, 04:39 PM)mallorian69 Wrote: I don't know if it's been said before and i'm not going to dig through several threads worth of unrelated crap to try to find it, but who exactly are we checking with to see if these so called refugees are who they claim to be?

Are they calling up the Syrian government and checking with them? I highly doubt it seeing as how the Syrian government has more pressing matters, like a civil war to attend to. And even if they could get in contact with Syrian officials, does anyone think they would tell us the truth about any of these people? It's not like we were on great diplomatic terms with them before their civil war and are on ever worse terms now since we support the government opposition. They would be more likely to intentionally give false testimony to allow someone in that would do us harm.

How can you vet someone when there is no one trustworthy that you can contact to confirm that the information they have provided is correct?

http://www.npr.org/2015/11/17/456395388/paris-attacks-ignite-debate-over-u-s-refugee-policy

Quote:Their first point of a refugee's contact is with the U.N. High Commission for Refugees. The UNHCR refers people to countries based on whether they have any family members there and where resettlement makes the most sense, say U.S. officials. If that's the U.S., then refugees are vetted by the National Counterterrorism Center, the FBI's Terrorist Screening Center, and the Departments of State, Defense and Homeland Security. Fingerprints are taken, biographical information is collected. They are then each individually interviewed by U.S. officials trained to verify that they're bona fide refugees.

Refugees from Syria are then subject to additional screening that looks at where they came from and what caused them to flee their home, stories that are checked out. All of this occurs before a refugee is allowed to set foot in the country.

There's always some kind of a record of existence. Birth certificates, employment history, medical records, social media. It takes some digging, but it's there, even in a place undergoing as much change as Syria has in the last several years.

[SteelCitySouth]

(12-07-2015, 12:23 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: Wow.....
This is somewhat disappointing.
It basically killed every thread which had been merged.
Nobody is going to search  back through all of that.
Maybe sticky a few general threads on terrorism, ect..., but I'm not ever going to feel like contributing anything if I think it may get rolled up in some messy cluster.

Might as well just axe the sub-forum, now.

Calm your tits.....

[GMDino]

(12-07-2015, 05:15 PM)Benton Wrote: http://www.npr.org/2015/11/17/456395388/paris-attacks-ignite-debate-over-u-s-refugee-policy



There's always some kind of a record of existence. Birth certificates, employment history, medical records, social media. It takes some digging, but it's there, even in a place undergoing as much change as Syria has in the last several years.

Which is why it takes almost two years.

[Benton]

(12-07-2015, 05:28 PM)GMDino Wrote: Which is why it takes almost two years.

Yup.

And it's why the recent House action was so unnecessary. There wasn't a plan to circumvent all the vetting already taking place, it was just Obama asking Congress to provide funding to do more of what it was already doing, so that it could help out quicker. Instead, GOP lawmakers took the Paris attacks and used it to aggrandize.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(12-06-2015, 11:06 PM)Benton Wrote: Given the daily creation of some new terrorism/anti Islam/France terrorism thread, we're going to just roll it all into one. Unfortunately, creating a new thread every time some media puts up some story for or against Islam is burying a number of threads and interesting discussions.

In the future, please use your judgement to discern if something needs an entire new thread, or if it's more of the same. If it looks like more of the same with a cursory glance, there's a good chance it'll get merged anyway.

Thanks!

Thank God!  My prayers have been answered.

[mallorian69]

(12-07-2015, 05:15 PM)Benton Wrote: http://www.npr.org/2015/11/17/456395388/paris-attacks-ignite-debate-over-u-s-refugee-policy



There's always some kind of a record of existence. Birth certificates, employment history, medical records, social media. It takes some digging, but it's there, even in a place undergoing as much change as Syria has in the last several years.

I don't know what Syrian birth certificates look like but the ones issued here in the states have nothing that can positively identify that the person presenting it is the same as the name on the certificate. No photo, fingerprint, or other identifying markers except maybe race (which would do no good since they are all Arabic). I can get a copy of anyone's bc here in the states as long as I know their name, place of birth, and date of birth as long as that person's records haven't been sealed by court order. I could then use that to try to claim I am someone I am not. If it can be done here it sure as hell can be done in a place like Syria.

Many of these people have no social media footprint, medical records, or employement history to cross check. And if they did how would you check anything besides social media? You gonna call up their Dr. in Syria and ask about their medical history? How bout their former boss, think he's going to give anything up, assuming you can even get in contact, or if he is even alive?

The fact is for the vast majority of these people there is no way to 100% verify that they are who they claim to be. Their passports, ID's and birth certificates can and have been forged and with no credible way to verify those documents you have to go on faith that they are who they say they are.

[Rotobeast]

(12-07-2015, 05:27 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: Calm your tits.....

Calm them for me.
Maybe numb them.
Num...num...num...

[StLucieBengal]

(12-07-2015, 08:18 PM)mallorian69 Wrote: I don't know what Syrian birth certificates look like but the ones issued here in the states have nothing that can positively identify that the person presenting it is the same as the name on the certificate. No photo, fingerprint, or other identifying markers except maybe race (which would do no good since they are all Arabic). I can get a copy of anyone's bc here in the states as long as I know their name, place of birth, and date of birth as long as that person's records haven't been sealed by court order. I could then use that to try to claim I am someone I am not. If it can be done here it sure as hell can be done in a place like Syria.

Many of these people have no social media footprint, medical records, or employement history to cross check. And if they did how would you check anything besides social media? You gonna call up their Dr. in Syria and ask about their medical history? How bout their former boss, think he's going to give anything up, assuming you can even get in contact, or if he is even alive?

The fact is for the vast majority of these people there is no way to 100% verify that they are who they claim to be. Their passports, ID's and birth certificates can and have been forged and with no credible way to verify those documents you have to go on faith that they are who they say they are.

This is exactly why we have no business accepting any Syrian refugees.