Black Lives matter shuts down Bernie

[jakefromstatefarm]

(08-15-2015, 12:40 AM)Benton Wrote: This was actually a pretty well thought out post. Good job.

But you get to the end and contradict yourself, which brings up my original point of 'you should read up on the situation.' Either a- you didn't understand what was going in Greece or b- you don't understand trickle up, the theory that more money going to a majority of the people means they will spend more money, creating higher gains at the top.


Or maybe you do understand both, but you're failing to tie in how trickle up was done by cutting money in the middle (social programs, pensions, employees) and leaving the money at the top (tax evaders, business dealings for the very rich). What you're describing as their failing is closer to trickle down, not trickle up. 

Mulligan on this one?

No thanks, I'll stand by my position. 

I have a Bachelor's Degree in Economics and my MBA.  I think I have a pretty good idea how finances and economics work. 

Either way, thanks for the welcome to the board and I've enjoyed the back and forth.  

[Benton]

(08-15-2015, 12:43 AM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: No thanks, I'll stand by my position. 

I have a Bachelor's Degree in Economics and my MBA.  I think I have a pretty good idea how finances and economics work. 

Either way, thanks for the welcome to the board and I've enjoyed the back and forth.  

Any time. 

Although, I've got to say, if you've got a degree in economics, I can't fathom how you can mix up up and down.

[JustWinBaby]

(08-14-2015, 07:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No.  Companies could go back to paying their CEOs 20 times what the workers made like they did in 1965 instead of 300 times more like they do now.

US companies are not using cheap foreign labor to be competitive.  Instead they are using it to make all time record profits and sending all of those profits to the top instead of compensating their workers.

If they are saving so much money with cheap labor then why have the costs of their good continued to rise?

You are clueless.  CEO pay is an idiotic liberal meme - not to say it isn't too high, just that it isn't the problem driving your issue.  I'd like to say I expect more from you, but you have too many posts with this level of ignorance.

I mean, have you ever done the math? OK, let's say GM's CEO makes $50M....Let's say he should make $0, but GM employs nearly 100k people....so that's like $500 per employee. So just one example of how only the ignorant ***** about CEO pay.

[jakefromstatefarm]

(08-15-2015, 12:52 AM)Benton Wrote: Any time. 

Although, I've got to say, if you've got a degree in economics, I can't fathom how you can mix up up and down.

I've had too many beers tonight to explain it. 

Rain check or we can meet up and discuss it over beer.  

[JustWinBaby]

(08-15-2015, 12:43 AM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: I have a Bachelor's Degree in Economics and my MBA.  I think I have a pretty good idea how finances and economics work. 

Welcome to the board!

You'll find that people here don't have your education or experience, and so will assume you live in a mysterious bubble created by Faux News.

DO NOT ever argue with a liberal (which most of this board is) assuming they understand even the most basic fundamentals of finance and economics.   Even if they did, the liberal in them would force them to suppress common sense.

[jakefromstatefarm]

(08-15-2015, 01:01 AM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Welcome to the board!

You'll find that people here don't have your education or experience, and so will assume you live in a mysterious bubble created by Faux News.

DO NOT ever argue with a liberal (which most of this board is) assuming they understand even the most basic fundamentals of finance and economics.   Even if they did, the liberal in them would force them to suppress common sense.

Thanks for the welcome!  

As for the rest...."Never wrestle with a pig.  You get dirty and the pig likes it."

[StLucieBengal]

(08-14-2015, 08:13 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: Lifetime limits on cash benefits...but people can stay in things like section 8 housing, medicaid, and food stamps provided that they meet the financial criteria forever. 

There is so much fraud, waste, and abuse in these systems, just like there is in everything that the government touches. 

I'm tired of making it too comfortable for these people, and being poor should suck.  I don't want to see a person on food stamps get to the checkout lane with a grocery cart full of steaks, soda, and junk food.  It's ridiculous.

Open up food pantries and give them the bare minimum.  Here's some pasta, some bologna, some potatoes, vegetables, and oatmeal.  Enjoy. 

Yeah I hear Ya. I want a 2 year max on this stuff. Force people to get up.

[StLucieBengal]

(08-15-2015, 01:01 AM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Welcome to the board!

You'll find that people here don't have your education or experience, and so will assume you live in a mysterious bubble created by Faux News.

DO NOT ever argue with a liberal (which most of this board is) assuming they understand even the most basic fundamentals of finance and economics.   Even if they did, the liberal in them would force them to suppress common sense.

I gotta say we are getting more conservative voices and it's nice.

[fredtoast]

(08-15-2015, 12:55 AM)JustWinBaby Wrote: You are clueless.  CEO pay is an idiotic liberal meme - not to say it isn't too high, just that it isn't the problem driving your issue.  I'd like to say I expect more from you, but you have too many posts with this level of ignorance.

I mean, have you ever done the math?  OK, let's say GM's CEO makes $50M....Let's say he should make $0, but GM employs nearly 100k people....so that's like $500 per employee.  So just one example of how only the ignorant ***** about CEO pay.

So you first say that CEO pay is too high then you say only the ignorant biitch about it?

Seems to me that if it is too high then it is okay to biitch about it.  

[fredtoast]

(08-14-2015, 08:13 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: There is so much fraud, waste, and abuse in these systems, just like there is in everything that the government touches. 

Corporate fraud costs taxpayers billions of dollars more than foodstamp fraud.  

We paid $700 billion to help out millionaires on Wall street, but you get pissed over a few dollars in food stamps to help out the poor?

The pentagon wastes a million times more money than we spend on all aid to the poor combined and all of that goes into the pockets of private companies like Lockheed Martin

Don't you realize how ridiculous that sounds?

The people doing all the really big time stealing of your tax dollars have you so brainwashed you have no idea what is really happening. They have you vilifying the poor over pennies and worshiping corporations that are sucking up thousands of times more tax dollars.

[jakefromstatefarm]

(08-15-2015, 04:41 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Corporate fraud costs taxpayers billions of dollars more than foodstamp fraud.  

We paid $700 billion to help out millionaires on Wall street, but you get pissed over a few dollars in food stamps to help out the poor?

The pentagon wastes a million times more money than we spend on all aid to the poor combined and all of that goes into the pockets of private companies like Lockheed Martin

Don't you realize how ridiculous that sounds?

The people doing all the really big time stealing of your tax dollars have you so brainwashed you have no idea what is really happening. They have you vilifying the poor over pennies and worshiping corporations that are sucking up thousands of times more tax dollars.

More strawmen.  Please highlight the post in which I stated that there's no waste, fraud, and abuse taking place in the Military Industrial Complex. 

It seems to me that you're the type of person that's had arguments with the Fox News watching, GOP-loving conservatives in the past, and rather than arguing with me over the points that I make, project whatever nonsense you've been told in the past as though I personally said any of those things.

Go find some fox news watching con and argue this crap with them.  

[Benton]

(08-15-2015, 12:55 AM)JustWinBaby Wrote: You are clueless.  CEO pay is an idiotic liberal meme - not to say it isn't too high, just that it isn't the problem driving your issue.  I'd like to say I expect more from you, but you have too many posts with this level of ignorance.

I mean, have you ever done the math?  OK, let's say GM's CEO makes $50M....Let's say he should make $0, but GM employs nearly 100k people....so that's like $500 per employee.  So just one example of how only the ignorant ***** about CEO pay.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2012/08/12/outsourcer-in-chief-obama-of-general-motors/

Quote:To be exact: GM’s December 31, 2011 annual report shows General Motors of North America accounting for 98,000  of the 207,000 GM jobs worldwide. But 12,000 of these jobs are in Canada and 11,500 are in Mexico.  Accordingly, GM has 74,500 jobs in the United States and 122,500 abroad, even after Obama’s touted surge in Detroit jobs.  Almost two thirds of  GM’s jobs are in other countries.

http://wjla.com/news/business/treasury-oks-big-pay-raises-for-gm-ally-despite-bailouts-107465

Quote:WASHINGTON (AP) - The U.S. Treasury Department continued to approve "excessive" pay raises for top executives at General Motors and its former consumer finance arm, both of which received taxpayer-funded bailouts during the financial crisis, a new government report says.

The government watchdog that oversees the $475 billion bailout said Treasury approved cash salaries exceeding $500,000 last year for 16 of the 47 top executives at General Motors Corp. and Ally Financial Inc. Treasury allowed total pay packages, including company stock, of at least $1 million for every top executive at the two companies, according to the report released Wednesday by the special inspector general for the Troubled Asset Relief Program.
It said the government approved $3 million in pay raises, from 4 percent to 20 percent, for nine GM executives, most of whom had previously gotten raises several years in a row. The government sold its last shares of GM in December.

...

A report issued in April by Romero estimated that taxpayers lost $11.2 billion on the bailout of GM, up from a previous estimate of $10.5 billion. The automaker needed the $49.5 billion in aid to survive its bankruptcy restructuring in 2009. GM went public again in November 2010.

That's more of an issue most people. Not that leaders of successful companies are rewarded, but that the system and government grossly rewards failure. It does it in the form of tax breaks and loopholes such as the case with GMs last few CEOs, it does it in the term of false consumer confidence after just hacking away at assets and plundering companies as in Fiorina. 

[jakefromstatefarm]

So there's negative consequences for the government picking winners and losers in the marketplace?

Who woulda thunk it?

[StLucieBengal]

(08-15-2015, 11:11 AM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: More strawmen.  Please highlight the post in which I stated that there's no waste, fraud, and abuse taking place in the Military Industrial Complex. 

It seems to me that you're the type of person that's had arguments with the Fox News watching, GOP-loving conservatives in the past, and rather than arguing with me over the points that I make, project whatever nonsense you've been told in the past as though I personally said any of those things.

Go find some fox news watching con and argue this crap with them.  

To the bold:

That's a lot of people on this board. They run to blame Fox News, talk radio, or anything to avoid the specifics of what you bring up.

[jakefromstatefarm]

(08-15-2015, 11:48 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: To the bold:  

That's a lot of people on this board.  They run to blame Fox News, talk radio, or anything to avoid the specifics of what you bring up.

It seems to be accurate with one specific poster in particular. 

I'm here to debate topics, not to answer for anything and everything that the GOP has ever done or endorsed.  

[StLucieBengal]

(08-15-2015, 11:56 AM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: It seems to be accurate with one specific poster in particular. 

I'm here to debate topics, not to answer for anything and everything that the GOP has ever done or endorsed.  

They aren't used to being challenged by more than a few conservatives. First They go to the Fox News echo chamber stuff then they get personal and go for insults. Then finally they just make up stuff. For example: I called uncivilized nations a bunch of savages. Now they say I called all foreigners savages.

Whenever they start these shenanigans you won the debate haha.

At some point your use of pronouns will become an issue as well.

[fredtoast]

(08-15-2015, 11:11 AM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: More strawmen.  Please highlight the post in which I stated that there's no waste, fraud, and abuse taking place in the Military Industrial Complex. 

Not a strawman.  My point is that you have never mentioned it at all.

There are dozens of posts in this forum where you squeal about the poor taking all your tax dollars, but not a single one where you complain about corporate America stealing thousands of times more money than the poor.

Get it now?

[fredtoast]

(08-15-2015, 11:11 AM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: More strawmen.  Please highlight the post in which I stated that there's no waste, fraud, and abuse taking place in the Military Industrial Complex. 

It seems to me that you're the type of person that's had arguments with the Fox News watching, GOP-loving conservatives in the past, and rather than arguing with me over the points that I make, project whatever nonsense you've been told in the past as though I personally said any of those things.

Go find some fox news watching con and argue this crap with them.  

Do you know what irony means?

You just completely refused to address the comments I made about how you never mention corporate fraud costing taxpayer many more times than benefits to poor people and went straight to attacking me personally.

[jakefromstatefarm]

(08-15-2015, 12:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Not a strawman.  My point is that you have never mentioned it at all.

There are dozens of posts in this forum where you squeal about the poor taking all your tax dollars, but not a single one where you complain about corporate America stealing thousands of times more money than the poor.

Get it now?

No, I don't get it.

You're injecting an argument that I never made and argued against that.  That's the very definition of strawman. 

You're assuming things, and we all know what ASSUME means, right? 

We're not discussing the MIC, but we can if you'd like.  You'd probably feel that our thoughts on it are similar in regards to the gross overspending and abuse that takes part. 

We were discussing social welfare programs here.  If you can't stick on topic and make a solid point without the insertion of strawmen, then perhaps political discourse and debate is out of your domain.  

[jakefromstatefarm]

(08-15-2015, 12:17 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Do you know what irony means?

You just completely refused to address the comments I made about how you never mention corporate fraud costing taxpayer many more times than benefits to poor people and went straight to attacking me personally.

Maybe you can highlight my personal attack. 

Must be in the same post where I said that there's no waste or fraud in the MIC.