CA shooting: Domestic Terrorism

[*michaelsean*]

(12-07-2015, 10:33 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: It could be.  But, in my experience it was a building fund for expansion.

Then you have very little experience and or drive with your eyes closed and don't see the hundreds of churches that have stood virtually unchanged for decades.  Who the hell is expanding as church attendence shrinks?

[*bfine32*]

It is a shame that this thread has led us down the all to common debate of God. 14 people left for a Christmas party on that day and did not return. Hell the killers themselves left a child orphaned. This was not simply because of God and it was not because a lack of God; it was because a couple impressionable people were swayed into thinking that Americans are their enemy. It is a theme I see sprinkled throughout this thread as well.

Could God have caused the whole ordeal to be avoided? Absolutely, Could God have guided the killers to return to their car instead of continuing the killing spree throughout the entire complex? Absolutely. Could God have guided the law Officers to the killers location and stopped the killers before they could commit another act; as appears was their plan? Absolutely. Or he could have simply sat back and watched

If folks was to "blame" folks for extending prayers to the victims and their families; then that is a problem with them; not the ones offering condolences in the most sincere way they know how. It is a fact that many believe in the power of prayer and those that look to condemn it are being hateful and bigoted.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(12-07-2015, 10:42 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Then you have very little experience and or drive with your eyes closed and don't see the hundreds of churches that have stood virtually unchanged for decades.  Who the hell is expanding as church attendence shrinks?

That may be.  How many churches have you attended?

[*michaelsean*]

(12-07-2015, 10:45 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: That may be.  How many churches have you attended?

It's not a matter of attending multiple churches, it's a matter of having the ability to see and a rudimentery knowledge of church, and trends in attendence.  If you think churches are building on to increase attendence, the few mega churches excepted, then I have to conclude that you really have not looked it.  I'd be curious to hear of these churches that you refer to.

[StLucieBengal]

(12-07-2015, 10:29 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: What's ridiculous is you falsely claiming people in this thread are mad about this when not a single person is mad about this.  So for a second time we are addressing your false allegation instead of the topic.



So you're just thinking about them and not actually praying for them? 

The ridiculous outrage on this topic. Starting with the paper headlines. Then people who just have an axe to grind here want to make more of this than is necessary.

I mean really we are going back and forth whether it's ok to tell someone you are praying for them.

[StLucieBengal]

(12-07-2015, 10:44 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It is a shame that this thread has led us down the all to common debate of God. 14 people left for a Christmas party on that day and did not return. Hell the killers themselves left a child orphaned. This was not simply because of God and it was not because a lack of God; it was because a couple impressionable people were swayed into thinking that Americans are their enemy. It is a theme I see sprinkled throughout this thread as well.

Could God have caused the whole ordeal to be avoided? Absolutely, Could God have guided the killers to return to their car instead of continuing the killing spree throughout the entire complex? Absolutely. Could God have guided the law Officers to the killers location and stopped the killers before they could commit another act; as appears was their plan? Absolutely. Or he could have simply sat back and watched

If folks was to "blame" folks for extending prayers to the victims and their families; then that is a problem with them; not the ones offering condolences in the most sincere way they know how. It is a fact that many believe in the power of prayer and those that look to condemn it are being hateful and bigoted.

It is a shame. But we should expect it from this crew. A Muslim starts killing people and it took a day to get off that and on to white people who pray. It's always skin color with these guys.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(12-07-2015, 11:00 PM)michaelsean Wrote: It's not a matter of attending multiple churches, it's a matter of having the ability to see and a rudimentery knowledge of church, and trends in attendence.  If you think churches are building on to increase attendence, the few mega churches excepted, then I have to conclude that you really have not looked it.  I'd be curious to hear of these churches that you refer to.

Just off the top of my head, the last three churches I have attended have all expanded.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(12-07-2015, 10:44 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It is a shame that this thread has led us down the all to common debate of God. 14 people left for a Christmas party on that day and did not return. Hell the killers themselves left a child orphaned. This was not simply because of God and it was not because a lack of God; it was because a couple impressionable people were swayed into thinking that Americans are their enemy. It is a theme I see sprinkled throughout this thread as well.

Are you shitting me?  The killers were religious terrorists who killed others based upon their misguided belief in a god.  So you think it is shameful to discuss god in this context because you don't think god was somehow involved with religious terrorism?  Am I understanding you correctly?

Quote:Could God have caused the whole ordeal to be avoided? Absolutely, Could God have guided the killers to return to their car instead of continuing the killing spree throughout the entire complex? Absolutely. Could God have guided the law Officers to the killers location and stopped the killers before they could commit another act; as appears was their plan? Absolutely. Or he could have simply sat back and watched

So god can harden Pharaoh's heart and destroy Egypt to demonstrate his own glory.  But, when it comes to mass murder he is just going to sit back and observed?  

Quote:If folks was to "blame" folks for extending prayers to the victims and their families; then that is a problem with them; not the ones offering condolences in the most sincere way they know how. It is a fact that many believe in the power of prayer and those that look to condemn it are being hateful and bigoted.

Folks aren't "blaming" folks for extending prayers in the most sincere way they know how.  Politicians who tweet about what they are going to pray for aren't even the ones sending their tweets.  Their staff writes and send the tweets for them.  If they believe in the power of prayer, why don't they prayer for god to end the gun violence?  If the prayers do have power, why don't they work?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(12-08-2015, 01:23 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: The ridiculous outrage on this topic.  Starting with the paper headlines.  Then people who just have an axe to grind here want to make more of this than is necessary.  

I mean really we are going back and forth whether it's ok to tell someone you are praying for them.

But, no one in this thread is outraged despite your repeated claims others are.  We aren't going back and forth about whether it is ok to tell someone you are praying for them.  Stop pretending to be so dense.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(12-08-2015, 01:27 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: It is a shame.  But we should expect it from this crew.   A Muslim starts killing people and it took a day to get off that and on to white people who pray.   It's always skin color with these guys.

You were literally the first person to drag race into this discussing in post #23 and it is a shame and exactly what we can expect from you.

[GMDino]

(12-08-2015, 01:27 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: It is a shame.  But we should expect it from this crew.   A Muslim starts killing people and it took a day to get off that and on to white people who pray.   It's always skin color with these guys.

See, this is where your racism / bigotry shine the brightest.

I didn't see one, not one person complain about "white people" praying.  That is your own person bias kicking in.

And while the shooter THIS time is Muslim it is always YOU who wants to point that out.  And if, heaven forbid, someone talks about someone OTHER than a Muslim who killed you fluff it off as nothing more than an attempt to stop talking about...wait for it...dirty Muslim savages.

So stop trying to play the martyr card.

We talked about the victims, we talked about the shooters, and now we are talking about whether the empty condolences of praying vs actually trying to do something to help at least slow down these strategies is a farce or not.

[Belsnickel]

(12-08-2015, 01:49 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Just off the top of my head, the last three churches I have attended have all expanded.

Two of the last three I have built on activities centers, so that would be expansion. Though building those on is an effort to increase attendance through expanding program offerings and maybe increasing revenues through renting out the space so they can stay afloat. I attend a church that is bucking the trend and increases in membership an attendance occur all the time. But our building fund is just for upkeep at this point since that last building is almost ten years old now. No expansions in our plans.

[Rotobeast]

(12-08-2015, 02:17 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Are you shitting me?  The killers were religious terrorists who killed others based upon their misguided belief in a god.  So you think it is shameful to discuss god in this context because you don't think god was somehow involved with religious terrorism?  Am I understanding you correctly?


So god can harden Pharaoh's heart and destroy Egypt to demonstrate his own glory.  But, when it comes to mass murder he is just going to sit back and observed?  


Folks aren't "blaming" folks for extending prayers in the most sincere way they know how.  Politicians who tweet about what they are going to pray for aren't even the ones sending their tweets.  Their staff writes and send the tweets for them.  If they believe in the power of prayer, why don't they prayer for god to end the gun violence?  If the prayers do have power, why don't they work?

Perhaps they refuse to capitalize God, therefore he doesn't know he's being addressed or is ignoring them over the lack of respect ?

[fredtoast]

(12-08-2015, 08:29 AM)GMDino Wrote: See, this is where your racism / bigotry shine the brightest.

I didn't see one, not one person complain about "white people" praying.  That is your own person bias kicking in.

And while the shooter THIS time is Muslim it is always YOU who wants to point that out.  And if, heaven forbid, someone talks about someone OTHER than a Muslim who killed you fluff it off as nothing more than an attempt to stop talking about...wait for it...dirty Muslim savages.

So stop trying to play the martyr card.

We talked about the victims, we talked about the shooters, and now we are talking about whether the empty condolences of praying vs actually trying to do something to help at least slow down these strategies is a farce or not.

Rep.

We are talking about the public reaction to ALL mass shootings, but Lucie has to turn it into a Muslim issue.

We are talking about ALL color of people offering prayers, and Lucie turns it into an attack on white people.

He is just obsessed with race.  

[Belsnickel]

(12-08-2015, 12:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: We are talking about the public reaction to ALL mass shootings, but Lucie has to turn it into a Muslin issue.

I always hate those. Sometimes those bandages are just not big enough.

[Rotobeast]

(12-08-2015, 12:46 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I always hate those. Sometimes those bandages are just not big enough.

They had the bleached ones in Gitmo, right ?

[Vas Deferens]

(12-07-2015, 10:42 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Then you have very little experience and or drive with your eyes closed and don't see the hundreds of churches that have stood virtually unchanged for decades.  Who the hell is expanding as church attendence shrinks?

We clearly don't live in the same part of the country, or travel to similar places.  Have you seen any of these 'mega churches'?  They're all over the place.  A branch of a popular one out my way recently acquired the old grocery store AND adjacent Walmart to accommodate their parishioners. As in 150K+ square feet.  

Probably has a lot to do with where people are migrating across the country as well.  

[Belsnickel]

(12-08-2015, 02:45 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: We clearly don't live in the same part of the country, or travel to similar places.  Have you seen any of these 'mega churches'?  They're all over the place.  A branch of a popular one out my way recently acquired the old grocery store AND adjacent Walmart to accommodate their parishioners. As in 150K+ square feet.  

Probably has a lot to do with where people are migrating across the country as well.  

Yeah, we don't have much of that stuff around these parts. While the more evangelical (in the more modern usage of the term) churches have a presence here, they are not as prominent as the old world denominations that the immigrants came over with.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(12-07-2015, 05:10 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Churches could also do more if they didn't spend the collection money on building bigger churches so they can get more members to collect more money to build bigger churches so they can get more members so they can collect more money to build bigger churches so they can get more members to collect more money to build bigger churches . . .

As they get bigger, they can also increase their ability to help more people.

(12-08-2015, 01:49 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Just off the top of my head, the last three churches I have attended have all expanded.

Name them, let's take a look and see why they are expanding and how much they are helping within their respective communities.

I'm not a religious person at all, so I'm not biased on this subject. I'm just middle of the road. Sure some churches are all about me me me, but that's far from the norm. I do know that some churches do good by helping people, so I'm not afraid to admit when they do good as well as when they don't.

[*bfine32*]

(12-08-2015, 02:17 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Are you shitting me?  The killers were religious terrorists who killed others based upon their misguided belief in a god.  So you think it is shameful to discuss god in this context because you don't think god was somehow involved with religious terrorism?  Am I understanding you correctly?


So god can harden Pharaoh's heart and destroy Egypt to demonstrate his own glory.  But, when it comes to mass murder he is just going to sit back and observed?  


Folks aren't "blaming" folks for extending prayers in the most sincere way they know how.  Politicians who tweet about what they are going to pray for aren't even the ones sending their tweets.  Their staff writes and send the tweets for them.  If they believe in the power of prayer, why don't they prayer for god to end the gun violence?  If the prayers do have power, why don't they work?

As I said, they killed because they were misguided. If you say they killed because of their belief in God, you are exactly the same as the character you so often share with him how ignorant and bigoted he truly is.

I do not know the mind of God

You have zero idea who prays, what they pray for, or if they are sucessful. Could these 2 killers caused a lot more than 14 deaths? Could the answer have been triggering these killers early and reducing their number drastically.

If folks didn't believe in God simply because their prayers were not answered to their liking; heaven would be pretty empty.

I get it. Belief in God gos counter to the "logic' of man and their are those that cannot open their heart because they cannot open their mind.

Man says: "Show me and I will believe you"

God says: "Believe me and I will show you"