Confederate Flag Misunderstood?

[BengalHawk62]

Heritage or Hate?
For many Southern folks the confederate flag is a symbol of their way of life, their values, family, and courage. It stood as their symbol against 'northern' aggression and invasion. It had nothing to do with racism. Just look at the tv show Dukes of Hazard as a model of this way of life. There was no racism in Hazard County. They was just makin' their way, the only way they knew how.
Now it's being attacked by the 'political correct' crowd for promoting slavery. The darkest times in our country's nation. A time that divided the nation like never before. A division that could only be amended by a great Civil War. It's led to decades of racial strife that we are still fighting to control to this day.
How do you feel about the issue? Should we remove the flag or leave it be?

[SteelCitySouth]

(06-24-2015, 10:59 AM)BengalHawk62 Wrote: Heritage or Hate?  
For many Southern folks the confederate flag is a symbol of their way of life, their values, family,  and courage.  It stood as their symbol against 'northern' aggression and invasion.  It had nothing to do with racism.  Just look at the tv show Dukes of Hazard as a model of this way of life.  There was no racism in Hazard County.  They was just makin' their way, the only way they knew how.
Now it's being attacked by the 'political correct' crowd for promoting slavery.  The darkest times in our country's nation.  A time that divided the nation like never before.  A division that could only be amended by a great Civil War.  It's led to decades of racial strife that we are still fighting to control to this day.  
How do you feel about the issue?  Should we remove the flag or leave it be?

We should remove the flag from the capital grounds...You can do what you want with the flag at your home.

[*michaelsean*]

I think the reaction because the kid had a photo with the flag in it is kind of ridiculous. That being said, it is a flag of rebellion, and a battle flag for a government that was fighting for the right to have slaves. That may not be all it was about, but slavery was an important factor.

[fredtoast]

I fully understand how people in the south feel about the "rebel flag". In fact when I was 18 years old and moved from Ohio to Tennessee I actually got a rebel flag license plate for the front of my car.

But the fact is that it has been co-opted by hate groups, and it is very offensive to a large portion of the public. If individuals want to display it they can, but it just can not be displayed on any government property.

[Benton]

(06-24-2015, 11:02 AM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: We should remove the flag from the capital grounds...You can do what you want with the flag at your home.

And that's pretty well my thought on it.

[*Nately120*]

Semi-related note, I always found it a bit odd that the people who still salute and display the confederate flag are often the same ones who tell current day blacks to "get over it" and point out that slavery has been gone for a long time and it's not like they have any idea what it's like to be slaves, anyways.

Leave the past in the past, er...unless it's heritage? History? Well, not THAT kind of history ya crybabies! Anyways, I also find it fascinating how important flags are to people. I suppose it's just convenient for people to be able to ascertain certain key aspects of your belief system and alliances from a mile away.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(06-24-2015, 10:59 AM)BengalHawk62 Wrote: There was no racism in Hazard County.

That was a fictional television show.  The only black character on that show didn't live in Hazzard County.  (I had to look that up because I don't even remember the single black character the show had.)  There is racism in the real Hazzard County.

Heritage or hate?  Yes.  It's both, not one or the other.  I'm sure for some people it is a symbol of heritage.  I'm sure for others it is a symbol of racism.  From my personal experience, the people I have known who displayed that flag were either overtly racist or closet racists.  I don't know a single person for which that flag was strictly heritage.

[*Nately120*]

(06-24-2015, 12:49 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: That was a fictional television show.  The only black character on that show didn't live in Hazzard County.  (I had to look that up because I don't even remember the single black character the show had.)  There is racism in the real Hazzard County.

Heritage or hate?  Yes.  It's both, not one or the other.  I'm sure for some people it is a symbol of heritage.  I'm sure for others it is a symbol of racism.  From my personal experience, the people I have known who displayed that flag were either overtly racist or closet racists.  I don't know a single person for which that flag was strictly heritage.

I'll also admit personal experience isn't definitive fact, but I'm from a small town in western PA and there are people in said small town that have absolutely 100% never lived in and/or have migrated from a confederate state of any sort that have that flag displayed or on their clothing etc..

[*bfine32*]

The next question is; How far do we go? The State flags of Florida (somebody once said it wasn’t part of the South), Mississippi, Arkansas, Georgia, and Alabama all use the Confederate Flag in their theme. Do we remove those as well?
 
In a related story: there is now a push here in Kentucky to remove a statue of native Son Jefferson Davis from the State capital:

 
Should we be required to shut down the State Park named after Jefferson Davis?

 
Should we be forced to destroy the Jefferson Davis Monument?

The 5th tallest Monument in the US and the tallest unreinforced concrete structure in the World.

Where do we draw the line when we start regulating what states can or cannot display?

[WhoDeyWho]

(06-24-2015, 12:49 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: That was a fictional television show.  The only black character on that show didn't live in Hazzard County.  (I had to look that up because I don't even remember the single black character the show had.)  There is racism in the real Hazzard County.

Heritage or hate?  Yes.  It's both, not one or the other.  I'm sure for some people it is a symbol of heritage.  I'm sure for others it is a symbol of racism.  From my personal experience, the people I have known who displayed that flag were either overtly racist or closet racists.  I don't know a single person for which that flag was strictly heritage.

What was the "heritage" of the South in those days?  Is it really something worth celebrating?  

[SteelCitySouth]

(06-24-2015, 01:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The next question is; How far do we go? The State flags of Florida (somebody once said it wasn’t part of the South), Mississippi, Arkansas, Georgia, and Alabama all use the Confederate Flag in their theme. Do we remove those as well?
 
In a related story: there is now a push here in Kentucky to remove a statue of native Son Jefferson Davis from the State capital:

 
Should we be required to shut down the State Park named after Jefferson Davis?

 
Should we be forced to destroy the Jefferson Davis Monument?

The 5th tallest Monument in the US and the tallest unreinforced concrete structure in the World.

Where do we draw the line when we start regulating what states can or cannot display?

You do understand that it is the people within the state forcing the change and thus it is the state that is making the change.  LOL...This is not a Federal law being forced upon the States.  This is exactly how the system is supposed to work.  Change at the State level at the behest of the people. 

[*michaelsean*]

(06-24-2015, 01:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The next question is; How far do we go? The State flags of Florida (somebody once said it wasn’t part of the South), Mississippi, Arkansas, Georgia, and Alabama all use the Confederate Flag in their theme. Do we remove those as well?
 
In a related story: there is now a push here in Kentucky to remove a statue of native Son Jefferson Davis from the State capital:

 
Should we be required to shut down the State Park named after Jefferson Davis?

 
Should we be forced to destroy the Jefferson Davis Monument?

The 5th tallest Monument in the US and the tallest unreinforced concrete structure in the World.

Where do we draw the line when we start regulating what states can or cannot display?

I would.  Dude was nuts by the end of the war.  Running around on his little treasure train setting up new capital's while everything was burning down around him.

[*bfine32*]

(06-24-2015, 01:34 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: You do understand that it is the people within the state forcing the change and thus it is the state that is making the change.  LOL...This is not a Federal law being forced upon the States.  This is exactly how the system is supposed to work.  Change at the State level at the behest of the people. 

I know exactly how it works. That is why I mentioned the KY monuments. If you think there is not outside influence on SC to take down the flag (to include at the highest level); then we just disagree.

BTW, you never said what you thought should be done with the KY monuments or other State Flags.

[SteelCitySouth]

(06-24-2015, 01:41 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I know exactly how it works. That is why I mentioned the KY monuments. If you think there is not outside influence on SC to take down the flag (to include at the highest level); then we just disagree.

BTW, you never said what you thought should be done with the KY monuments or other State Flags.

For me that is up to KY to decide.  I have made my position on the flag in SC...since I live in Charleston, quite clear.  The State Capital grounds are not an appropriate place for things like that.  I support the removal of the flag from the Capial grounds.  I think that is pretty clear.

[Belsnickel]

(06-24-2015, 01:41 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I know exactly how it works. That is why I mentioned the KY monuments. If you think there is not outside influence on SC to take down the flag (to include at the highest level); then we just disagree.

BTW, you never said what you thought should be done with the KY monuments or other State Flags.

There is definitely outside influence, no doubt about it, but we do see a lot of it being homegrown.

I think the important thing to take note of is that the influence driving these changes from within the states are coming from the residents, but not native residents. The country has changed a lot and many people have moved all around. Combine that with the national attention being paid to these issues giving them a larger voice the change is happening more so. The demographics of these states are changing. Leadership roles are no longer in the hands of native sons and daughters. Time, they are a changin', and honestly, it is for the better.

[*bfine32*]

(06-24-2015, 01:53 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: For me that is up to KY to decide.  I have made my position on the flag in SC...since I live in Charleston, quite clear.  The State Capital grounds are not an appropriate place for things like that.  I support the removal of the flag from the Capial grounds.  I think that is pretty clear.

As a legal resident of the State of SC, obviously you are justified to voice your opinion.

So you are saying if you were not a legal resident of SC, you would not voice your opinion on this matter?

[SteelCitySouth]

(06-24-2015, 01:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As a legal resident of the State of SC, obviously you are justified to voice your opinion.

So you are saying if you were not a legal resident of SC, you would not voice your opinion on this matter?

I never said that...However My opinion being voiced would hold little to no value as I have no platform.  That being said, Mississippi is in the process of discussing their flag in regards to this situation and I have said nothing about it up to this point other to acknowledge that they are looking at it.

Also everyone in the United States is justified to have and say their opinion on all matters that happen within the country.  

[*bfine32*]

(06-24-2015, 02:03 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: Also everyone in the United States is justified to have and say their opinion on all matters that happen within the country.  

Of course they are. What is your opinion of the Jefferson Davis park and Monument?

[SteelCitySouth]

(06-24-2015, 02:06 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course they are. What is your opinion of the Jefferson Davis park and Monument?

I think it's pretty plain that I would only take issue with one of those items you described.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(06-24-2015, 01:21 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: What was the "heritage" of the South in those days?  Is it really something worth celebrating?  

For me, at best, it is a symbol of treason.