Coronavirus

[*bfine32*]

(07-04-2020, 08:22 AM)hollodero Wrote: The same thing all other western leaders mandated. Wear masks, keep social distance, shut down non-essential businesses and open back up only as soon as the numbers aflow for it, etc.

Of course, next to "mandating" things there is always a role of urging people to do the right thing. Something a president also can do, aside from mandates. Trump failed in that regard as well.

Now if any governor then had said, no screw that, I do not obey these orders, I do not listen to the sensible things the WH recommends, and you as US president can do nothing about that (I do not know if that is true), then I might see a point. But fact is that Trump did, again, all the things I listed and this is not anyone else's fault.

He held daily briefings with medical experts telling folks what they should do, but he's tro blame bedcause he didn't urge people to wear a mask, he let them decide for themselves. You'll just have to be aghast if you think my priorities are wrong by asserting that is less important than keeping liberal judges off the Supreme Court. 

Now you can think that it would be wiser to have a national shutdown of "non-essential" businesses and force everyone to wear a mask  than it is to defer to the Governor of each state to determine what is best for his/her state, but I'll view it as otherwise.  

[NATI BENGALS]

(07-03-2020, 11:53 PM)bfine32 Wrote: To blame POTUS to the extreme that many do, you have to assert that folks cannot think for themselves. He's POTUS, he's not King, he's not the Divine Rule, he's not God. He's a politician that has shared his thoughts on a pandemic while mandating nothing.

This is probably going to be a hard one for you and other liberals to answer, but:

What should have POTUS mandated federally?   

Right. Our leader who failed to lead. Hence the shitting of the bed collectively as a nation making the pandemic worse than it should have been.

[*jason*]

(07-03-2020, 11:41 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: He had sense enough to cut off the flights from China all the while being called a racist by the guy hiding in his basement.

Don't misunderstand me. My wife & I wouldn't be going to any large gathering of people till this shit ends. We wear a dam mask when we are in any stores.

But don't think for a moment that the left won't politicize this issue & any other they can to get him out of office.

That's all fine and good... The problem is that many had already left Wuhan by that point. 380,000 people from China had flown in... Many on direct flights. Oh, and there were exemptions for that ban for US citizens. Flights from Europe were not stopped until 6 weeks later. Oh... He also scrapped the lil group who's job it was to monitor outbreaks in similar situations in these far off lands so they can be identified and contained quickly... But why would we waste money on something like that to observe things in a country that isn't always honest and suppresses information within and outside it's borders.

But that's all distant history... In recent weeks the man has encouraged thousands of people to gather to adore him... And he's going to continue to do that.

[*bfine32*]

Whether folks like it or not we are a country of individual freedoms and by far the largest economy in the world. We are not the rest of the world.

[hollodero]

(07-04-2020, 09:06 AM)bfine32 Wrote: He held daily briefings with medical experts telling folks what they should do

But he didn't do that. At least, he often did the opposite. He scolded his experts, he diminshed the covid threat (first called it a hoax, then repeatedly claimed it will just go away), he mocked Biden for wearing a mask, he mused about injecting disinfectants, he recommended an explicitly not recommended drug, he lied about the situation (often implying all is fine and no big deal)... and so on, I repeat my points. But these are all Donald Trump leadership failures. Has nothing to do with the left or his critics or how some critizism might be unfair.

And again, it's more symptomatic than important, but he published a biased poll where 90% trust him and 10% trust Fauci. He goes in full opposition to his medical experts.

(07-04-2020, 09:06 AM)bfine32 Wrote: but he's tro blame bedcause he didn't urge people to wear a mask, he let them decide for themselves. You'll just have to be aghast if you think my priorities are wrong by asserting that is less important than keeping liberal judges off the Supreme Court.

I just wonder.
Regarding the list of Donald Trump failures, which I did repeat just now in part (not a complete list by any stretch), I would assume a different president would have saved a lot of lifes. I don't mean a "good liberal president", I also think a president bfine would have saved a lot of lifes. You would have listened to your own experts instead of belittling them, you would have shied away from holding big rallies in a time where big ralles are counterintuitive, you would not have told lies about the virus and its spread. And you would at least have urged people to wear masks instead of mocking those that do.

(07-04-2020, 09:06 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Now you can think that it would be wiser to have a national shutdown of "non-essential" businesses and force everyone to wear a mask  than it is to defer to the Governor of each state to determine what is best for his/her state, but I'll view it as otherwise.  

Yeah well, I feel my stance is backed up by this curve.

[NATI BENGALS]

(07-04-2020, 09:06 AM)bfine32 Wrote: He held daily briefings with medical experts telling folks what they should do, but he's tro blame bedcause he didn't urge people to wear a mask, he let them decide for themselves. You'll just have to be aghast if you think my priorities are wrong by asserting that is less important than keeping liberal judges off the Supreme Court. 

Now you can think that it would be wiser to have a national shutdown of "non-essential" businesses and force everyone to wear a mask  than it is to defer to the Governor of each state to determine what is best for his/her state, but I'll view it as otherwise.  

I don’t know how you feel about hypocrites. But they really piss me off. When someone tells me to do one thing and then themselves don’t follow the rules it makes that rule mean a whole lot less to me.

All he had to do was follow the rules put forth by our medical experts that he stood on stage next to. By giving hell to states with democratic governors and giving support to the open up crowd and failing to wear a mask he is personally responsible for the trajectory of our curve.

No matter how you want to paint it he is the president of our country and his leadership failure has us where we are.

[*bfine32*]

(07-04-2020, 09:28 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I don’t know how you feel about hypocrites. But they really piss me off. When someone tells me to do one thing and then themselves don’t follow the rules it makes that rule mean a whole lot less to me.

All he had to do was follow the rules put forth by our medical experts that he stood on stage next to. By giving hell to states with democratic governors and giving support to the open up crowd and failing to wear a mask he is personally responsible for the trajectory of our curve.

No matter how you want to paint it he is the president of our country and his leadership failure has us where we are.

Well then Trump shouldn't piss you off because he doesn't tell folks to do one thing and then doesn't do it himself in this case. 

As I said: I understand why the Liberal wants to make this Trump's fault, just as I can understand the conservative trying to downplay it. At the end of the day we have one person to hold responsible for our safety and that of our family and it's not some orange-haired guy that resides in a big white house.

I strongly believe folks should mask when they cannot socially distance. My family and I have not visited with anyone outside of our pod for 4 months. We've not been to a restaurant, bar, or other social gathering. I haven't had a haircut in 4 months. We have a hand sanitation station set up at every entrance to our house. 

I merely took issue with the assertion that folks who think the appointment of Supreme Court Justices is not as important as Donald Trump telling me I should wear a mask. I'm all grown up I can my my own choices. 

[hollodero]

(07-04-2020, 09:44 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Well then Trump shouldn't piss you off because he doesn't tell folks to do one thing and then doesn't do it himself in this case. 

As I said: I understand why the Liberal wants to make this Trump's fault, just as I can understand the conservative trying to downplay it. At the end of the day we have one person to hold responsible for our safety and that of our family and it's not some orange-haired guy that resides in a big white house.

I strongly believe folks should mask when they cannot socially distance. My family and I have not visited with anyone outside of our pod for 4 months. We've not been to a restaurant, bar, or other social gathering. I haven't had a haircut in 4 months. We have a hand sanitation station set up at every entrance to our house. 

I merely took issue with the assertion that folks who think the appointment of Supreme Court Justices is not as important as Donald Trump telling me I should wear a mask. I'm all grown up I can my my own choices. 

Well, that is nice. I sure applaud you for being sensible about this. The problem is that your neighbour can attend a Trump rally and then cough in your family's face and also say "I'm also all grown up, I can do as I please, and Trump made the case that it's all overblown and no big deal and masks are an embarrassment and infringe on my freedom - what a liberal media hoax that whole corona fear is".
And while I hope you and your family are safe, that is exactly what is happening on a larger scale and that's a big reason why your covid curve is so abysmal and comes with such a dramatic death toll.

And it sure has a lot to do with Donald Trump and all the leadership failures he displayed.

[GMDino]

Ah!  More examples of bfine "not defending Trump" all the time.

I mean, why should we hold the POTUS responsible for things that happen in the United States just because he fought tooth and nail to try and make it seem like everything was okay and would go away like a miracle.  Right up until this week.

[*bfine32*]

(07-04-2020, 10:10 AM)GMDino Wrote: Ah!  More examples of bfine "not defending Trump" all the time.

I mean, why should we hold the POTUS responsible for things that happen in the United States just because he fought tooth and nail to try and make it seem like everything was okay and would go away like a miracle.  Right up until this week.

If the mods are true to their words, we won't have to worry about responses like this much longer.

[GMDino]

(07-04-2020, 10:15 AM)bfine32 Wrote: If the mods are true to their words, we won't have to worry about responses like this much longer.

Bfine I just read two pages this morning of you "just asking" if Trump gets criticsized too much about his Coronavirus responses.  To every one of them you argued it wasn't his fault and he didn't do anything wrong because people can make their own choices...despite the fact that he completely botched and misled the country since January.

If that isn't defending Trump nothing is.  Something you have said repeatedly you do not do.

Maybe my post will fall under "calling someone out"?  If so I will be punished.  Otherwise just keep on keeping on.

[GMDino]

It is impossible to mobilize the full force of the federal government toward a problem that the President's arrogance and ignorance prevent him from understanding or taking seriously.

And so here we are. https://t.co/oPQZle2PzJ

— Jeremy BLACK LIVES MATTER Konyndyk (@JeremyKonyndyk) July 4, 2020

 

[*bfine32*]

(07-04-2020, 10:32 AM)GMDino Wrote: Bfine I just read two pages this morning of you "just asking" if Trump gets criticsized too much about his Coronavirus responses.  To every one of them you argued it wasn't his fault and he didn't do anything wrong because people can make their own choices...despite the fact that he completely botched and misled the country since January.

If that isn't defending Trump nothing is.  Something you have said repeatedly you do not do.

Maybe my post will fall under "calling someone out"?  If so I will be punished.  Otherwise just keep on keeping on.

What you read was 2 pages of 2 people with differing views having a civil discussion. Hollo seems to think it all starts at the top and I think it's more about personal responsibility. 

I've stated numerous times that I have defended Trump; mostly due to his station than his character. Where things go sideways is when folks chime in with nothing to add to the discussion other than to slur other's opinions and use something asserted in another subject to apply it to the current thread.

[GMDino]

The President retweeted this.

.@TheHermanCain, a great American, is hospitalized with coronavirus and has requested prayer. He is a colon cancer survivor & in a high risk category. Would you join me in praying for him today, as well as all those who are suffering from COVID-19? https://t.co/WKCr2BM5M9

— Franklin Graham (@Franklin_Graham) July 3, 2020

I did not know Cain was a cancer survivor and in the high risk group.

Why was he out touting maskless, social distancing free gatherings that he was in the middle of?  Is he just dumb?

[GMDino]

(07-03-2020, 08:24 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The rules I must follow in response to COVID are set by my Governor and employer. I wonder how many other states are like this.

Your condescension is noted. But please don't try to explain the value of the US Soldier to me. 

(07-03-2020, 09:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I don't blame any one person for the COVID numbers. I get that may be hard to fathom, but it's how I view it. I cannot fathom how some can say: "The POTUS could have protected us". 

I have made my thoughts on the bounties known, but how do you have undisputed truth that Trump ignored them. Because an anonymous source told the NYT?  

Of course there's condescension in your posts, but as I said: It's easy to do from the outside.

(07-03-2020, 10:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You still didn't share the proof of where Trump knew about and ignored bounties. If you think I'd just go off on a tangent because Hills was in charge then you most likely do not know my stance on Bengahzi and how I was not as "outraged" as every other conservative.

Are you really trying to suggest Trump is getting a "pass" on COVID by "everyone"? If anything folks are trying to place extra blame on him.And you have to see that. 

(07-03-2020, 11:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Answer this simple question and we can leave it at that,

Do you think Donald Trump is receiving more blame than he deserves or less in regards to the COVID Pandemic. 

(07-03-2020, 11:53 PM)bfine32 Wrote: To blame POTUS to the extreme that many do, you have to assert that folks cannot think for themselves. He's POTUS, he's not King, he's not the Divine Rule, he's not God. He's a politician that has shared his thoughts on a pandemic while mandating nothing.

This is probably going to be a hard one for you and other liberals to answer, but:

What should have POTUS mandated federally?   

(07-04-2020, 08:16 AM)hollodero Wrote: My dear fellow board member, you can not quite reduce everything to this question and pretend this explains away anything or is any kind of summation of what I had to say. So no, we can not leave it at that. You can if you choose. It's your country and your conscience, sure.

To your question, Donald Trump, like every other president, gets ctitizised plenty, on any topic, and there is always some critizism that is unfair. Again, this does not mean or prove anything.

(07-04-2020, 09:06 AM)bfine32 Wrote: He held daily briefings with medical experts telling folks what they should do, but he's tro blame bedcause he didn't urge people to wear a mask, he let them decide for themselves. You'll just have to be aghast if you think my priorities are wrong by asserting that is less important than keeping liberal judges off the Supreme Court. 

Now you can think that it would be wiser to have a national shutdown of "non-essential" businesses and force everyone to wear a mask  than it is to defer to the Governor of each state to determine what is best for his/her state, but I'll view it as otherwise.  

(07-04-2020, 09:44 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Well then Trump shouldn't piss you off because he doesn't tell folks to do one thing and then doesn't do it himself in this case. 

As I said: I understand why the Liberal wants to make this Trump's fault, just as I can understand the conservative trying to downplay it. At the end of the day we have one person to hold responsible for our safety and that of our family and it's not some orange-haired guy that resides in a big white house.

I strongly believe folks should mask when they cannot socially distance. My family and I have not visited with anyone outside of our pod for 4 months. We've not been to a restaurant, bar, or other social gathering. I haven't had a haircut in 4 months. We have a hand sanitation station set up at every entrance to our house. 

I merely took issue with the assertion that folks who think the appointment of Supreme Court Justices is not as important as Donald Trump telling me I should wear a mask. I'm all grown up I can my my own choices. 

(07-04-2020, 10:43 AM)bfine32 Wrote: What you read was 2 pages of 2 people with differing views having a civil discussion. Hollo seems to think it all starts at the top and I think it's more about personal responsibility. 

I've stated numerous times that I have defended Trump; mostly due to his station than his character. Where things go sideways is when folks chime in with nothing to add to the discussion other than to slur other's opinions and use something asserted in another subject to apply it to the current thread.

"personal responsibility" carrying a heavy load here.  Trump failed to lead.  And many people failed to listen to the science and the experts because of what Trump told them.  He is not a "king" but he IS the POTUS and his words and actions carry weight.  Refusing to wear a mask, insisting it will go away, praising the "blue" states and cities that did nothing or reopened early or attacking the "red" city and states that were hit ard...all of that is failure of leadership and goes well beyond "we can make our own choices".  

If the President had presented a unified voice with the science on this we would be miles ahead of where we are as a country.  That is on Trump and only Trump.

If he let's Fauci and the other doctors and scientists speak without making each presser into a min-rally to talk about how great the economy was before it all happened, if Trump had said to follow the CDC guidelines and not encouraged states to open early, if he had done even JUST that and people still didn't listen then he gets a pass.  But DJT actively encouraged bad behavior through his words and actions.

So anyone saying he gets "too much" criticism isn't paying attention or is blindly partisan.

He's the President.  It would be nice if he had acted like it.

Happy Independence Day!  Be safe and enjoy your time with your family!

[hollodero]

(07-04-2020, 10:43 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Hollo seems to think it all starts at the top and I think it's more about personal responsibility. 

I just want to add to that point that imho these two aspects are in no way mutually exclusive.

Your line of thinking seems to imply that if personal responsibility is important, what is happening at the top automatically is less important. I'd say both things can be crucially important at the same time.

But of course actually I refer to a lesser extent to the good things Trump did not do and say (although there is a lot to say about that too) as to the unquestionably counterproductive and imho often plain horrific things he did do and say. The latter things are those that leave me utterly perplexed, as does calling those things somehow not that important.

[*bfine32*]

(07-04-2020, 11:30 AM)hollodero Wrote: I just want to add to that point that imho these two aspects are in no way mutually exclusive.

Your line of thinking seems to imply that if personal responsibility is important, what is happening at the top automatically is less important. I'd say both things can be crucially important at the same time.

But of course actually I refer to a lesser extent to the good things Trump did not do and say (although there is a lot to say about that too) as to the unquestionably counterproductive and imho often plain horrific things he did do and say. The latter things are those that leave me utterly perplexed, as does calling those things somehow not that important.

And as I said when this all started: I put a higher priority on keeping Justices out of the Supreme Court who judge on their Liberal bias than I do on Trump saying I should wear a mask. 

One sets laws I must abide by and one just runs his mouth trying to keep the world's largest economy afloat. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-03-2020, 11:41 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: He had sense enough to cut off the flights from China all the while being called a racist by the guy hiding in his basement.

Don't misunderstand me. My wife & I wouldn't be going to any large gathering of people till this shit ends. We wear a dam mask when we are in any stores.

But don't think for a moment that the left won't politicize this issue & any other they can to get him out of office.

Conservatives usually point out the travel ban as something Trump had the sense to do. Except the WHO recommends against travel bans because they don’t work which is exactly what happened with Trump’s travel ban. It was a failure. Meanwhile, he ignored or delayed implementing the actual recommendations that worked to slow the spread.

Trump called this pandemic the Democrat’s new hoax in February. So don’t think for a moment Trump hasn’t politicized the pandemic from the beginning.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-03-2020, 11:53 PM)bfine32 Wrote: To blame POTUS to the extreme that many do, you have to assert that folks cannot think for themselves. He's POTUS, he's not King, he's not the Divine Rule, he's not God. He's a politician that has shared his thoughts on a pandemic while mandating nothing.

This is probably going to be a hard one for you and other liberals to answer, but:

What should have POTUS mandated federally?   

Mandatory testing for all international travelers, contact tracing, and self-isolation for 14 days for anyone that tests positive.

Just three things he could have done from the start that we covered pages and months ago.

[masonbengals fan]

(07-04-2020, 12:52 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Conservatives usually point out the travel ban as something Trump had the sense to do. Except the WHO recommends against travel bans because they don’t work which is exactly what happened with Trump’s travel ban. It was a failure. Meanwhile, he ignored or delayed implementing the actual recommendations that worked to slow the spread.

Trump called this pandemic the Democrat’s new hoax in February. So don’t think for a moment Trump hasn’t politicized the pandemic from the beginning.

 I have no doubt that the right uses everything/anything for their political benefit as well. 

 Common sense tells me that cutting off flights from the country of origin didn't at the very least help slow the spread.