DAYS AFTER ORLANDO ATTACK, HOUSE G.O.P. BLOCKS VOTE ON GAY-RIGHTS AMENDMENT

[*Nately120*]

(06-16-2016, 02:05 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Yes.   Which is why we don't need these ridiculous laws any longer.    It's moved beyond the need for a law. 

What got us to the point where we reached this genuine equality we now enjoy?  What led to hiring laws and quotas being no longer necessary?

[Belsnickel]

(06-16-2016, 02:05 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Yes.   Which is why we don't need these ridiculous laws any longer.    It's moved beyond the need for a law. 

Do you truthfully believe that all employers do not discriminate based on race, gender, sexuality, religion, or anything else other than the ability to do the job?

[StLucieBengal]

(06-16-2016, 02:03 PM)GMDino Wrote: Sounds almost like you need a safe place at work where you feel comfortable and no one can upset you and your "vision".  

I need people around me who get the job done the way I want it done. 

What I don't need as an employer is unnecessary laws leaving me open to litigation because I didn't feel like someone was a good fit.    

[*Nately120*]

(06-16-2016, 02:08 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I need people around me who get the job done the way I want it done. 

What I don't need as an employer is unnecessary laws leaving me open to litigation because I didn't feel like someone was a good fit.    

Aren't you being a bit melodramatic?  Do you mean if a guy walks into your office and says he dropped out of 3rd grade but he's flaming gay that you HAVE to hire him over someone who is way more qualified but sadly, decides to pursue women?

[StLucieBengal]

(06-16-2016, 02:08 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Do you truthfully believe that all employers do not discriminate based on race, gender, sexuality, religion, or anything else other than the ability to do the job?

If someone won't hire you because of (insert protected class) do you think that is going positive work environment if they are forced to hire someone they didn't want in the first place?   

Would you like to work at a job you weren't really wanted or would you rather an employer be excited to hire you?   Where do you think you will progress further?   Why should people be forced to not know if they were hired because they were wanted or if their employer was just afraid of a lawsuit?  

Do I think every employer doesn't discriminate?  No of course not....  Everyone has their own taste in employees.    But if I was working I wouldn't want to be saddled with a boss who didn't want me.   There is no place to progress in a job like that..  So why should anyone have to deal with that stuff?  Better to be told they didn't get the job so they can find the best fit. 

[StLucieBengal]

(06-16-2016, 02:09 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Aren't you being a bit melodramatic?  Do you mean if a guy walks into your office and says he dropped out of 3rd grade but he's flaming gay that you HAVE to hire him over someone who is way more qualified but sadly, decides to pursue women?

I would love to hire a gay guy.   But it wouldn't be one of these Flamers or one of these pretenders.   

[*Nately120*]

(06-16-2016, 02:15 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: If someone won't hire you because of (insert protected class) do you think that is going positive work environment if they are forced to hire someone they didn't want in the first place?   

I don't own a business, and I've never worked in HR (though my MA does involve HR to an extent), but I think you may be over exaggerating when you claim that businesses are going to be FORCED to hire people solely based upon their membership to anything other than "straight white male."

Then again, if that's true I'm going to walk into your office and sing 3 Culture Club songs and laugh while you are FORCED to hire me!  MWA HA HA!!!

[Belsnickel]

(06-16-2016, 02:15 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: If someone won't hire you because of (insert protected class) do you think that is going positive work environment if they are forced to hire someone they didn't want in the first place?   

Would you like to work at a job you weren't really wanted or would you rather an employer be excited to hire you?   Where do you think you will progress further?   Why should people be forced to not know if they were hired because they were wanted or if their employer was just afraid of a lawsuit?  

Do I think every employer doesn't discriminate?  No of course not....  Everyone has their own taste in employees.    But if I was working I wouldn't want to be saddled with a boss who didn't want me.   There is no place to progress in a job like that..  So why should anyone have to deal with that stuff?  Better to be told they didn't get the job so they can find the best fit. 

Anti-discrimination laws don't force anyone to hire someone they don't want. So none of what you state here is relevant. Even with anti-discrimination laws it is ridiculously difficult to prove that your were discriminated against due to any of the protected reasons, and the burden of proof is on the complainant. In addition to that, someone who hires someone for fear of a lawsuit for this sort of thing is, in fact, discriminating and those they didn't hire would have a case to bring, so they aren't saving themselves from anything.

[StLucieBengal]

(06-16-2016, 02:20 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I don't own a business, and I've never worked in HR (though my MA does involve HR to an extent), but I think you may be over exaggerating when you claim that businesses are going to be FORCED to hire people solely based upon their membership to anything other than "straight white male."

Then again, if that's true I'm going to walk into your office and sing 3 Culture Club songs and laugh while you are FORCED to hire me!  MWA HA HA!!!

I know they aren't forced.    But not hiring them leaves the employer with the possibility of a lawsuit.  Instead of telling them they just aren't a good fit for the position you have to make up a reason.  Which hurts the applicant because they deserve feedback on their performance in the interview process.  

[*Nately120*]

(06-16-2016, 02:24 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Anti-discrimination laws don't force anyone to hire someone they don't want. So none of what you state here is relevant. Even with anti-discrimination laws it is ridiculously difficult to prove that your were discriminated against due to any of the protected reasons, and the burden of proof is on the complainant. In addition to that, someone who hires someone for fear of a lawsuit for this sort of thing is, in fact, discriminating and those they didn't hire would have a case to bring, so they aren't saving themselves from anything.

So you mean if I walk into Google and claim to identify as a black lesbian woman who is also handicapped they don't HAVE to make me the CEO?  Crap, there goes my latest career plan.

[StLucieBengal]

(06-16-2016, 02:24 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Anti-discrimination laws don't force anyone to hire someone they don't want. So none of what you state here is relevant. Even with anti-discrimination laws it is ridiculously difficult to prove that your were discriminated against due to any of the protected reasons, and the burden of proof is on the complainant. In addition to that, someone who hires someone for fear of a lawsuit for this sort of thing is, in fact, discriminating and those they didn't hire would have a case to bring, so they aren't saving themselves from anything.

If they are hard to prove then there is no need for them in the first place.   I don't know anyone who doesn't have their own preconceived notions on who to hire.    We all get better work enviornments when employers can hire who they wish and applicants get better feedback when employers c an be honest.   

[*Nately120*]

(06-16-2016, 02:30 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: If they are hard to prove then there is no need for them in the first place.   I don't know anyone who doesn't have their own preconceived notions on who to hire.    We all get better work enviornments when employers can hire who they wish and applicants get better feedback when employers c an be honest.   

I'm a bit confused because you said it's not like we are still in the 50's as if being in the 50s were a bad thing, but you are stating that things are better when there are no regulations or protections when it comes to who we can hire...isn't that like the 50s?

[BigPapaKain]

(06-16-2016, 02:18 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I would love to hire a gay guy.   But it wouldn't be one of these Flamers or one of these pretenders.   

Wow.

Just...wow.

[Griever]

(06-16-2016, 02:33 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Wow.

Just...wow.

obviously if it was a flamer, lucie wouldnt be able to control him self and would go spread eagle on his desk, ready and willing

[Belsnickel]

(06-16-2016, 02:30 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: If they are hard to prove then there is no need for them in the first place.   I don't know anyone who doesn't have their own preconceived notions on who to hire.    We all get better work enviornments when employers can hire who they wish and applicants get better feedback when employers c an be honest.   

Rape is hard to prove as well, should we do away with that law? Anti-discrimination laws do not prevent anyone from hiring who they want to. At all. And, this isn't just about hiring, but also for continued employment. If you find out about a person's religion or sexuality after hiring them because they were th ebest for the job, is it right that you can be able to fire them for something like that?

As a hiring manager for a state agency I have so many hoops to jump through as far as how to determine who to hire and to make it as objective as possible it would probably make your head spin. But I can tell you right now that if I wanted to discriminate in my hiring process it the paperwork could be done in such a way that there would be no way to know. I could have a completely unprofessional reason for hiring someone and the paperwork would back me under scrutiny. I know, because I've seen it happen. Discrimination happens all the time and, unfortunately, people constantly get away with it. But the laws should be in place so at least those that are stupid enough to do it outright face punishment for it.

[GMDino]

(06-16-2016, 02:08 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I need people around me who get the job done the way I want it done. 

What I don't need as an employer is unnecessary laws leaving me open to litigation because I didn't feel like someone was a good fit.    

(06-16-2016, 02:18 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I would love to hire a gay guy.   But it wouldn't be one of these Flamers or one of these pretenders.   

(06-16-2016, 02:24 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I know they aren't forced.    But not hiring them leaves the employer with the possibility of a lawsuit.  Instead of telling them they just aren't a good fit for the position you have to make up a reason.  Which hurts the applicant because they deserve feedback on their performance in the interview process.  

"Yes Tim, thanks for coming in for the interview.  I like your resume and your work ethic however I don't think you'd be a good fit here at ______, ______ & ______.  However I always want to help those who apply here to be better prepared for their next interview so I'll let you know that the reason I didn't hire you is because you are a flaming homosexual.  Despite all the good things you would bring to the job I just can NOT have a gay man working with me.  No matter how well you might get along with the staff or the customers or your amount of experience I can't allow a flaming gay man to work in my business.  What's that?  No, no other reason.  I just don't like flaming gay men.  A transgender wouldn't even get the interview.  Nope, not even if they were the most qualified and everything else was perfect.  Yes, I agree it is a pity that the law allows me to me a complete idiot but I guess the gays should have fought harder.  Maybe they should have been bullied a bit more to toughen them up so they could handle these things.

Anyway, have a nice day."

**buzzes secretary**

"Carol could you come in here and wipe the AIDS off of everything that Tim touched please?  Thank you.  I'm heading to Chik Fil A for a ***** free lunch."

[*Nately120*]

(06-16-2016, 02:52 PM)GMDino Wrote: "Yes Tim, thanks for coming in for the interview.  I like your resume and your work ethic however I don't think you'd be a good fit here at ______, ______ & ______.  However I always want to help those who apply here to be better prepared for their next interview so I'll let you know that the reason I didn't hire you is because you are a flaming homosexual.  Despite all the good things you would bring to the job I just can NOT have a gay man working with me.  No matter how well you might get along with the staff or the customers or your amount of experience I can't allow a flaming gay man to work in my business.  What's that?  No, no other reason.  I just don't like flaming gay men.  A transgender wouldn't even get the interview.  Nope, not even if they were the most qualified and everything else was perfect.  Yes, I agree it is a pity that the law allows me to me a complete idiot but I guess the gays should have fought harder.  Maybe they should have been bullied a bit more to toughen them up so they could handle these things.

Anyway, have a nice day."

**buzzes secretary**

"Carol could you come in here and wipe the AIDS off of everything that Tim touched please?  Thank you.  I'm heading to Chik Fil A for a ***** free lunch."

You're wrong.  Lucie knows that if the left gets its way all I'm going to have to do to get a job is walk into the HR department and sing "Look at me I'm Sandra Dee" while wearing drag and doing a cartwheel into the little girls' room and I'll get hired on the spot.

Resume?  Pfffttt....I can name 3 Barbara Streissand albums...I'll take 80k to start, and I want a blue company car.

[Griever]

(06-16-2016, 02:55 PM)Nately120 Wrote: You're wrong.  Lucie knows that if the left gets its way all I'm going to have to do to get a job is walk into the HR department and sing "Look at me I'm Sandra Dee" while wearing drag and doing a cartwheel into the little girls' room and I'll get hired on the spot.

Resume?  Pfffttt....I can name 3 Barbara Streissand albums...I'll take 80k to start, and I want a blue company car.

his life must be sad to live in such fear of things that dont even have an impact on him personally

[GMDino]

(06-16-2016, 02:55 PM)Nately120 Wrote: You're wrong.  Lucie knows that if the left gets its way all I'm going to have to do to get a job is walk into the HR department and sing "Look at me I'm Sandra Dee" while wearing drag and doing a cartwheel into the little girls' room and I'll get hired on the spot.

Resume?  Pfffttt....I can name 3 Barbara Streissand albums...I'll take 80k to start, and I want a blue company car.

Blue?  Not pink?!?!

You faked it just to get the job!  

[StLucieBengal]

(06-16-2016, 02:41 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Rape is hard to prove as well, should we do away with that law? Anti-discrimination laws do not prevent anyone from hiring who they want to. At all. And, this isn't just about hiring, but also for continued employment. If you find out about a person's religion or sexuality after hiring them because they were th ebest for the job, is it right that you can be able to fire them for something like that?

As a hiring manager for a state agency I have so many hoops to jump through as far as how to determine who to hire and to make it as objective as possible it would probably make your head spin. But I can tell you right now that if I wanted to discriminate in my hiring process it the paperwork could be done in such a way that there would be no way to know. I could have a completely unprofessional reason for hiring someone and the paperwork would back me under scrutiny. I know, because I've seen it happen. Discrimination happens all the time and, unfortunately, people constantly get away with it. But the laws should be in place so at least those that are stupid enough to do it outright face punishment for it.

Comparing rape and not hiring someone is not the same.   Shame on you for trying to make them equal.   

You should have the right to hire who you wish for whatever reason you wish.   Without have to make stuff up and fake paperwork.   You should be supporting my idea, it makes your job easier and beneficial to all.