Easter

[xxlt]

(03-27-2016, 07:14 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: My wife is agnostic, but she likes the ritual and traditions. The nice thing is that the way the ELCA has been going lately is they welcome all to their services. They don't try to actively convert you, they don't say they are responsible for your faith. They are responsible for what you hear when you are there. We have several people that attend regularly that are not believers but they like the message, the community, and the ritual.

I actually spoke in a Lutheran Church once on Christmas, which was quite an honor, but had not heard of the ELCA, which per its website is, "one of the largest Christian denominations in the US."

While I am appreciative of you shining a light on a denomination I was unaware of, I wonder if they are in for a name change... If they aren't trying to actively convert can they call themselves "evangelical?" I suppose they can say they are evangelizing by example and not by coercive action but it is kind of interesting...

I have met many folks like your wife - who like the ritual and tradition (some will even say "pageantry" in some churches) - and I am wired very differently.

[Belsnickel]

(03-27-2016, 09:50 AM)xxlt Wrote: I actually spoke in a Lutheran Church once on Christmas, which was quite an honor, but had not heard of the ELCA, which per its website is, "one of the largest Christian denominations in the US."

While I am appreciative of you shining a light on a denomination I was unaware of, I wonder if they are in for a name change... If they aren't trying to actively convert can they call themselves "evangelical?" I suppose they can say they are evangelizing by example and not by coercive action but it is kind of interesting...

I have met many folks like your wife - who like the ritual and tradition (some will even say "pageantry" in some churches) - and I am wired very differently.

What's interesting is that evangelical has a much different meaning depending on who you ask. I had some hesitation due to this as well. Worldwide, though, evangelical is more often seen as a synonym for Protestant. For example, the EKD is the overarching organization for protestant churches in Germany comprising of both Reformed and Lutheran churches. We view it much differently here than elsewhere, and I think the ELCA was going for the international feel with their name.

What's nice about the ELCA is what I already stated, plus: married clergy, female clergy, gay clergy, same sex marriage, recognition of abortion as a sin but not the place of the church to push to make it illegal, and the list could go on. As someone that is socially progressive and a Christian, the ELCA can be a great choice. Though admittedly you can have a different experience depending on the church.

[Benton]

Happy Easter!

[tigerseye]

(03-26-2016, 11:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: No you didn't. Your entire OP was to down play the significance of Easter .  Your "thoughts" were you don't care about the Holiday; yet will indulge your friends on the day.  If you want to profess why you truly started the thread; then just say so. I suppose you can expect other adults to believe it is because you are just curious. 

Keep you expectations high for those pre-K folk. 

This bold sums it up.

This thread is to attack Easter and Christianity ,then play it off like your not.

This type of thing happens all the times these days and its not hard to spot.

Threads like this are very telling.

[Belsnickel]

I didn't get into this, but the timing of Easter never did make sense to me. I should say that I know about the calculations, including the difference for east and west, but the independence from the Jewish calendar since 325 seems silly. We know the timing of the events coincide with Passover, so Easter being a little less than a month before Passover seems off.

[CKwi88]

(03-27-2016, 03:06 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I didn't get into this, but the timing of Easter never did make sense to me. I should say that I know about the calculations, including the difference for east and west, but the independence from the Jewish calendar since 325 seems silly. We know the timing of the events coincide with Passover, so Easter being a little less than a month before Passover seems off.

I always thought it odd they chose a date to set the birthday but not the death day.

[GMDino]

(03-26-2016, 11:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: No you didn't. Your entire OP was to down play the significance of Easter .  Your "thoughts" were you don't care about the Holiday; yet will indulge your friends on the day.  If you want to profess why you truly started the thread; then just say so. I suppose you can expect other adults to believe it is because you are just curious. 

Keep you expectations high for those pre-K folk. 

Irony...and a general insult!

Solid post!

Anyway...

Easter was always an odd holiday for me as a Catholic.  Lots of stories of pain and torture to show how much Jesus went through to show his love for us and show how being peaceful was better than war.

And that part resonated...until I was old enough to see the nuns were beating kids with rulers and the priests were abusing little boys.

Then it became another story that the "leaders" told us to live by while they ignored it.

Easter Sunday itself is amazing.  The mass time for the proceeding 3 days is tortuous.

Beyond that the message is wonderful...it is just a shame that so many who claim to love the message never realize we should all be acting it out too.

[xxlt]

(03-27-2016, 10:13 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: What's interesting is that evangelical has a much different meaning depending on who you ask. I had some hesitation due to this as well. Worldwide, though, evangelical is more often seen as a synonym for Protestant. For example, the EKD is the overarching organization for protestant churches in Germany comprising of both Reformed and Lutheran churches. We view it much differently here than elsewhere, and I think the ELCA was going for the international feel with their name.

What's nice about the ELCA is what I already stated, plus: married clergy, female clergy, gay clergy, same sex marriage, recognition of abortion as a sin but not the place of the church to push to make it illegal, and the list could go on. As someone that is socially progressive and a Christian, the ELCA can be a great choice. Though admittedly you can have a different experience depending on the church.

Thanks for expanding on ELCA nomenclature and praxis.

[xxlt]

(03-27-2016, 02:47 PM)tigerseye Wrote: This bold sums it up.

This thread is to attack Easter and Christianity ,then play it off like your not.

This type of thing happens all the times these days and its not hard to spot.

Threads like this are very telling.

Actually, what is really telling is your misunderstanding of the OP, and your disregarding the fact that a half dozen or so posters have responded to its reasonable questions and had a discussion about their varied perspectives on the holiday. I do feel sorry for you in that you see things that are not real. Back in the day before Jesus and his crew did their thing people might have thought this indicated possession by demons. I guess some people still see things that way. If this is the issue, my hope for you is that your demons be cast out. If not, a program to strengthen your reading skills might be something to explore. Of course, there is always prayer, too.

[*michaelsean*]

(03-28-2016, 07:22 AM)GMDino Wrote: Irony...and a general insult!

Solid post!

Anyway...

Easter was always an odd holiday for me as a Catholic.  Lots of stories of pain and torture to show how much Jesus went through to show his love for us and show how being peaceful was better than war.

And that part resonated...until I was old enough to see the nuns were beating kids with rulers and the priests were abusing little boys.

Then it became another story that the "leaders" told us to live by while they ignored it.

Easter Sunday itself is amazing.  The mass time for the proceeding 3 days is tortuous.

Beyond that the message is wonderful...it is just a shame that so many who claim to love the message never realize we should all be acting it out too.

Did your parents ever make you go to the 12:00-3:00 thing on Good Friday?  We used to have to go for the whole time.  

[GMDino]

(03-28-2016, 09:33 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Did your parents ever make you go to the 12:00-3:00 thing on Good Friday?  We used to have to go for the whole time.  

I was an altar boy and I lived one block from the church.  I was there Thursday, Friday, Saturday night and sunday morning.  When I wasn't serving our youth group was there during veneration to "watch" the church.

There was one point where I either served as an altar boy or lector every Sunday for a year because we were always able to get there no matter the weather and even if I wasn't there they knew they could call me and I could be in there in a few minutes.

[BengalHawk62]

I'm not sure if this is true or not, but one of the wife's aunts was telling me yesterday about how they decide when Easter is every year.  She said its always the first Sunday after the first full moon of the first full day of spring.  ????  Take that with what its worth.  I don't know the validity of it but it seems kinda legit to me?

Happy Easter everyone!

[GMDino]

(03-28-2016, 10:32 AM)BengalHawk62 Wrote: I'm not sure if this is true or not, but one of the wife's aunts was telling me yesterday about how they decide when Easter is every year.  She said its always the first Sunday after the first full moon of the first full day of spring.  ????  Take that with what its worth.  I don't know the validity of it but it seems kinda legit to me?

Happy Easter everyone!

That is 100% true.

I took a math theory class as a senior in college just to get my last credits and we learned that then.

[tigerseye]

(03-28-2016, 07:56 AM)xxlt Wrote: Actually, what is really telling is your misunderstanding of the OP, and your disregarding the fact that a half dozen or so posters have responded to its reasonable questions and had a discussion about their varied perspectives on the holiday. I do feel sorry for you in that you see things that are not real. Back in the day before Jesus and his crew did their thing people might have thought this indicated possession by demons. I guess some people still see things that way. If this is the issue, my hope for you is that your demons be cast out. If not, a program to strengthen your reading skills might be something to explore. Of course, there is always prayer, too.

Very cute response. Don't agree with you, so I'm possessed and I have issues. Cute.

You said Easter (a day to celebrate Jesus' resurrection) was an insignificant holiday, Easter was no big deal, Easter was no big deal again, Easters pagan elements and Easter is a pretence for lunch. (All your words that I am imagining? Reading skills?)

A poster above wrote that "Your entire OP is to down play the significance of Easter." which I agree with (by your own words).

You belittle Easter/Christianity with your words, then play it off like your not, by saying you were just asking a general question.

I suggest you go back to the Bible and concentrate on the significance of the resurrection.

I understand that people on here enjoy starting arguments. Seems like thats what your trying to do with your follow up comments?

Easter/The resurrection are central and significant to Christianity and it shouldn't be mocked.

Anyway I have to get going ,have a nice day.

[GMDino]

(03-26-2016, 05:03 PM)xxlt Wrote: So, this is not a Happy Easter thread - sure someone will throw one up tomorrow.

Last week I was invited to an Easter lunch and had to confess I did not know when Easter is. Turns out it is tomorrow.

But, this is not new for me. Even when I attended Christian church I never knew when Easter was and thought it was a pretty insignificant holiday when it was pointed out to me. I am really not trying to pick a fight with Christians, I am just saying I never internalized Easter as a big deal - to me there were far more important things about being a Christian than going to church on Easter (or any other day for that matter), and other holidays that resonated more with me.

So, my questions are - what is your religion and is Easter a big deal for you?

My answers - I am an agnostic. I have friends who are believers (most, but not all, Christians) whom I respect and friends who are atheists whom I respect. Funny thing is it is the same thing that annoys me about both groups - but that is another topic for another thread. As I already stated, Easter is not a big deal for me. I get kind of a kick out of the winter solstice but not the summer solstice, and the spring and fall equinoxes are not a big deal for me. The pagan elements of Easter and the Christian ones are just things that don't register much with me, for some reason.

I did accept the lunch invite to be with friends, but Easter is just the pretense for the lunch and I would be hanging with some of the same people on most Sundays whether there was a lunch or not.

(03-28-2016, 10:40 AM)tigerseye Wrote: Very cute response. Don't agree with you, so I'm possessed and I have issues. Cute.

You said Easter (a day to celebrate Jesus' resurrection) was an insignificant holiday, Easter was no big deal, Easter was no big deal again, Easters pagan elements and Easter is a pretence for lunch. (All your words that I am imagining? Reading skills?)

A poster above wrote that "Your entire OP is to down play the significance of Easter." which I agree with (by your own words).

You belittle Easter/Christianity with your words, then play it off like your not, by saying you were just asking a general question.

I suggest you go back to the Bible and concentrate on the significance of the resurrection.

I understand that people on here enjoy starting arguments. Seems like thats what your trying to do with your follow up comments?

Easter/The resurrection are central and significant to Christianity and it shouldn't be mocked.

Anyway I have to get going ,have a nice day.

I think you mistook his personal experiences with the way he learned about Easter and how it affected him with "mocking" it.

Clearly he made his opinion clear and then asked what other thought.

I went to Catholic school from 1-12 and then a religious college for four years...and I am never ceased to be amazed at how some Christians have a zero tolerance policy for anyone or anything that even slightly is outside their belief of the religion.

Other than two posters everyone else has a had a civil discussion about Easter, its history and their feelings about it.  The two posters who did not attacked the original poster.

And, again, it could just be a mistaken interpretation of the OP...or it could be being oversensitive on a message board with wildly varying opinions on everything.

[Belsnickel]

(03-28-2016, 10:32 AM)BengalHawk62 Wrote: I'm not sure if this is true or not, but one of the wife's aunts was telling me yesterday about how they decide when Easter is every year.  She said its always the first Sunday after the first full moon of the first full day of spring.  ????  Take that with what its worth.  I don't know the validity of it but it seems kinda legit to me?

Happy Easter everyone!

(03-28-2016, 10:37 AM)GMDino Wrote: That is 100% true.

I took a math theory class as a senior in college just to get my last credits and we learned that then.

Yup. It seems rather silly to me. They went with something that makes it reliant on something similar to what the Jewish calendar is based on, but because they want to make sure it is understood Christians are not Jews, they made it independent of the Jewish calendar, even though we know the events took place during Passover.

[*michaelsean*]

Easter is the most significant day in Christendom. It's not really an opinion. People may feel more about one holiday over another, but importance wise, Easter is #1.

[GMDino]

(03-28-2016, 10:59 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Yup. It seems rather silly to me. They went with something that makes it reliant on something similar to what the Jewish calendar is based on, but because they want to make sure it is understood Christians are not Jews, they made it independent of the Jewish calendar, even though we know the events took place during Passover.

And apparently this has been a thing since 325 AD.

Interestingly, to me, my grandmother was born on Palm Sunday in 1913...the earliest Palm Sunday and Easter for the entire 20th century.

It happened again in 2008 (she passed away in 2000).

The earliest it could be, obviously, is March 22...which has not happened since 1818.  And won't happen again until 2285!

[Belsnickel]

(03-28-2016, 11:19 AM)GMDino Wrote: And apparently this has been a thing since 325 AD.

Interestingly, to me, my grandmother was born on Palm Sunday in 1913...the earliest Palm Sunday and Easter for the entire 20th century.

It happened again in 2008 (she passed away in 2000).

The earliest it could be, obviously, is March 22...which has happened since 1818.  And won't happen again until 2285!

Yup, First Council of Nicaea IIRC. The problem with all of this is that the equinox is actually variable depending on where you are in the world.

[BengalHawk62]

I always try to think of Peter-

I try to imagine his shame that Friday night. Have you ever been a total shit? Have you ever had your worst moment when the person you love most needs you? Have you ever tried to sleep right after? What about when your friend dies, before you can make it square?

I see him waking up off a three-day bender on shitty syrah to a loud knock on the door and a bunch of women yapping at him. When he gets them to slow down enough to hear him through his headache, he hears what they're saying, and it's absolute, total, complete horsecrap, the absolute kind of thing only women and fools would say. Don't get him wrong! No one would be happier than him, right? But he's a man of the world, a realist. Besides -- be-*****-sides -- he's already had his heart broken once, remember? He's not falling for that again. He's going back home, back to practical things. Start fishing again. Normal life.

It's just...

It's just that what they're saying reminds him of something he said one time. Probably nothing. None of it meant anything, not really, that's what Friday proven, right? Still. It couldn't hurt to look. They had enemies, maybe someone did something. Might as well check. If nothing else, it'd shut the women up. Anyway, someone has to do it.

The sunlight burns his eyes, triggers a headache. He's exasperated. John's tagging along. It's a ***** trudge out there, all for nothing. Probably all for nothing. We're sure it's all for nothing, right? There were a few times when he wondered. What did happen that strange day on the mountaintop? He was never completely sure.

What if?

And a flash of something he could never name goes off inside him and suddenly he's running, running as fast as he can, and John, beautiful, young, not-hung-over-John is off in front of him but Peter doesn't care because the maybe that's growing in his heart is bigger and brighter than a galaxy and there's things worth being a broken-hearted fool for after all and he rounds a corner and there's a boulder thrown far to the side and the sun rising over the mountain pouring molten gold over a Jerusalem renewed.